Hard or Soft Brexit?

[mrsblue]

this is of no relevance to the point you were making which made no sense

I will try once more,

Smith run for leadership...now was he deluded or stupid in taking on Corbyn?....everybody realised he would be hammered in the leadership vote apart from himself and his hangers on.....deluded or stupid or both ?

Smith wants/demands/hopes/prays that Brexit will be reversed...ordinary people can whine and moan about the result...but a standing MP who is paid fairly well to carry out the wishes of the majority vote now wants to ignore the result and his own voters...deluded or stupid or both.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

I will try once more,

Smith run for leadership...now was he deluded or stupid in taking on Corbyn?....everybody realised he would be hammered in the leadership vote apart from himself and his hangers on.....deluded or stupid or both ?

Smith wants/demands/hopes/prays that Brexit will be reversed...ordinary people can whine and moan about the result...but a standing MP who is paid fairly well to carry out the wishes of the majority vote now wants to ignore the result and his own voters...deluded or stupid or both.

Have you bothered to check out how the electors of Pontypridd voted in the referendum? I draw your attention to my post a little while ago, asking the question, to whom is an MP beholden?

 

[MK Shrimper]

Have you bothered to check out how the electors of Pontypridd voted in the referendum? I draw your attention to my post a little while ago, asking the question, to whom is an MP beholden?

The did vote Leave mate, already checked - though not by a great margin.

 

[mrsblue]

Have you bothered to check out how the electors of Pontypridd voted in the referendum? I draw your attention to my post a little while ago, asking the question, to whom is an MP beholden?

Have you bothered to check Smith's background !

Born in England.....Was producer at the BBC....lived in leafy Surrey....moved to Wales just 6 year's ago....Ed gave him the WS gig.

What right has Smith got to even attempt to overturn Brexit?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I will try once more,

Smith run for leadership...now was he deluded or stupid in taking on Corbyn?....everybody realised he would be hammered in the leadership vote apart from himself and his hangers on.....deluded or stupid or both ?

Smith wants/demands/hopes/prays that Brexit will be reversed...ordinary people can whine and moan about the result...but a standing MP who is paid fairly well to carry out the wishes of the majority vote now wants to ignore the result and his own voters...deluded or stupid or both.

in the debates with Corbyn it became clear Smith was a poor quality candidate for party leader and so the membership rejected him as party leader. He has now gone back to being someone of no more significance than your average MP and doesn't reflect the party policy. Deciding Labour are imploding based on what Smith says is the equivalent of saying that the Tories are imploding because of what Anna Soubry says - similar characters and neither are typical of their party.

 

[mrsblue]

in the debates with Corbyn it became clear Smith was a poor quality candidate for party leader and so the membership rejected him as party leader. He has now gone back to being someone of no more significance than your average MP and doesn't reflect the party policy. Deciding Labour are imploding based on what Smith says is the equivalent of saying that the Tories are imploding because of what Anna Soubry says - similar characters and neither are typical of their party.

The delightful Angela Eagle(remember her crying on TV and commanding Jezza to step down or she will contest the leadership)realised her vote was pathetic so in true Labour fashion she sided with the dim witted Smith who never had a hope in hells chance of winning the battle to become leader....these two idiots tried to achieve the impossible,end of,fact.

Smith who collects £75,000 per year in salary and last year claimed £46,000 in expenses forcing ipsa to suspend his commons credit card...oh dear the rascal.

Reason why Labour are in free fall is because Corbyn cannot control his own back benchers let alone being leader of the country.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

The did vote Leave mate, already checked - though not by a great margin.

Tried to research it myself but found difficulty in obtaining a result from an actual constitency. The nearest I got was that it was about 50/50.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The delightful Angela Eagle(remember her crying on TV and commanding Jezza to step down or she will contest the leadership)realised her vote was pathetic so in true Labour fashion she sided with the dim witted Smith who never had a hope in hells chance of winning the battle to become leader....these two idiots tried to achieve the impossible,end of,fact.

Smith who collects £75,000 per year in salary and last year claimed £46,000 in expenses forcing ipsa to suspend his commons credit card...oh dear the rascal.

Reason why Labour are in free fall is because Corbyn cannot control his own back benchers let alone being leader of the country.

every party has dissenters - remember the kicking that IDS gave Cameron? You are digging out the effective party rejects and trying to make some big statement out of it. Smith and Eagle have been sidelined. Feel free to analyse each Labour MP if you have lots of time on your hands but neither of these are big players. The interviews given by Corbyn, McDonnell, Starmer recently are a lot more significant if you want to add something to the thread rather than just troll bit part players.

 

[mrsblue]

every party has dissenters - remember the kicking that IDS gave Cameron? You are digging out the effective party rejects and trying to make some big statement out of it. Smith and Eagle have been sidelined. Feel free to analyse each Labour MP if you have lots of time on your hands but neither of these are big players. The interviews given by Corbyn, McDonnell, Starmer recently are a lot more significant if you want to add something to the thread rather than just troll bit part players.

Why are we talking about Smith....think Mcfly think....Because a link was posted about Smith trying to derail Brexit.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Why are we talking about Smith....think Mcfly think....Because a link was posted about Smith trying to derail Brexit.

but you were saying Smith was in some way responsible for a perceived fall in the Labour Party. He had his moment in the spotlight in mid 2016, he is old news and he has no power to derail Brexit or the Labour Party or anything. He is just an MP of minor standing. But more significantly......

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Mrs May has backtracked again and agreed to issue a white paper on 'the plan'. You never know, this make it up as you go along, try to deny Parliament information and rights style of government may yet be forced into making this workable and damages limited if the pressure is kept up on them. She offered nothing but at every turn is being forced to do things the way they should be done.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Mrs May has backtracked again and agreed to issue a white paper on 'the plan'. You never know, this make it up as you go along, try to deny Parliament information and rights style of government may yet be forced into making this workable and damages limited if the pressure is kept up on them. She offered nothing but at every turn is being forced to do things the way they should be done.

It won't stop A50 being carried though.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It won't stop A50 being carried though.

no but only the Lib Dems can aim for that because they only have 9 MPs to lose, Labour have to go for broader appeal in England

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

no but only the Lib Dems can aim for that because they only have 9 MPs to lose, Labour have to go for broader appeal in England

I write without research, thus I'm willing to be corrected. It is true, with only 9 MP's the Lib Dems have a rather easier task but it is an issue on which they are totally united. I'm pretty certain there would have been no divisions even when they had 50+ seats, before the debacle of 2015. I would also imagine, unlike Labour, that none of the Lib Dems constituencies voted heavily for Brexit.
If I understand it correctly, they don't want to stop Brexit (although that of course would be their ultimate wish), they want an assurance the final deal (or no deal at all) and the choice between that or staying in the EU after all, should be put to a second referendum
Be thankful you're not a socialist in France :smile:..........it would make you cry.:'( Suicidedly divided and likely to face humiliation in May, they have some similar problems to their UK cousins..........but it's rather more complicated than that! Will probably talk about it later on an appropriate thread.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I write without research, thus I'm willing to be corrected. It is true, with only 9 MP's the Lib Dems have a rather easier task but it is an issue on which they are totally united. I'm pretty certain there would have been no divisions even when they had 50+ seats, before the debacle of 2015. I would also imagine, unlike Labour, that none of the Lib Dems constituencies voted heavily for Brexit.
If I understand it correctly, they don't want to stop Brexit (although that of course would be their ultimate wish), they want an assurance the final deal (or no deal at all) and the choice between that or staying in the EU after all, should be put to a second referendum
Be thankful you're not a socialist in France :smile:..........it would make you cry.:'( Suicidedly divided and likely to face humiliation in May, they have some similar problems to their UK cousins..........but it's rather more complicated than that! Will probably talk about it later on an appropriate thread.

Don't forget the SNP (who do have 50 +seats) will be voting en bloc against Article 50 being triggered.Sadly even with the support of Labour rebels (and Ken Clarke) that won't be enough to defeat the bill.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Don't forget the SNP (who do have 50 +seats) will be voting en bloc against Article 50 being triggered.Sadly even with the support of Labour rebels (and Ken Clark) that won't be enough to defeat the bill.

Surely the object is not to stop article 50 from being invoked? (although it may be our wish:smile:), it is to obtain guarantees that when a deal is (or is not) reached it can be put before the British people. At the moment the electorate have signed a blank cheque, it is important for them to have the chance to reflect again when the full sum of withdrawal is written in.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Surely the object is not to stop article 50 from being invoked? (although it may be our wish:smile:), it is to obtain guarantees that when a deal is (or is not) reached it can be put before the British people. At the moment the electorate have signed a blank cheque, it is important for them to have the chance to reflect again when the full sum of withdrawal is written in.

I expect that "blank cheque", as you put it, will be debated in Parliament,however I'm sure it'll to be rubber stamped through.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Yup, the economy and the UK in general went into free fall post Brexit. Just as was predicted in the months leading up to the referendum.

http://news.sky.com/story/uk-ends-2016-with-better-than-expected-economic-growth-10743111

Que howls of 'we haven't even started yet, you wait. We're all dooooomed' :winking:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Yup, the economy and the UK in general went into free fall post Brexit. Just as was predicted in the months leading up to the referendum.

http://news.sky.com/story/uk-ends-2016-with-better-than-expected-economic-growth-10743111

Que howls of 'we haven't even started yet, you wait. We're all dooooomed' :winking:

'we haven't even started yet, you wait. We're all dooooomed'

 

[southendkid]

Que howls of 'we haven't even started yet, you wait. We're all dooooomed' :winking:

It's a valid point though (maybe not the 'we're doomed' bit, but the rest is), the whole argument against Brexit is that we won't have the good trade deals we currently have, those trade deals will still be around for at least a year. Whilst we still have those deals in place only businesses panicking and leaving (which would be an expensive gamble whilst we don't know what will happen) could really cause issues since we can still trade as we have done for now. Until we actually leave we won't know what the economy will look like because we won't know what our trade agreements will be, maybe it will be good maybe it won't but the constant bickering from both sides about how the economy proves Brexit is good/bad is pretty irrelevant, the truth is no one really knows how this will play out.