Hard or Soft Brexit?

[mrsblue]

Which particular threat were you refering to?

Hollande in October said...."there must must be a threat,must be risk,must be a price.....not very diplomatic.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Where as you just do it to the Tory party and of course anyone else who doesn't agree with you.

Well, the Tory party is fair game as is the Labour Party and Liberal Democrats for you, it's not getting personal. I just find people calling party leaders 'wet lettuces' and 'inadequate negociators', when their negociating skills haven't been tested, a bit disappointing. Of course, as I said above, I'll make an exception for Boris who, with tendency to make gaffes, invites open season on himself all year round.:smile:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Its ok for Hollande to issue threats then ?

Hollande wion't be in power after May.Nor will the French Socialist party.Not much point picking a fight with him or them.Boris is a liability.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Where as you just do it to the Tory party and of course anyone else who doesn't agree with you.

Yogi is probably the most diplomatic poster on here, and has no clear party allegiance and just says what he thinks IMO

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yogi is probably the most diplomatic poster on here, and has no clear party allegiance and just says what he thinks IMO

Think you've missed his obvious affinity for the Lib/Dems.:winking:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Think you've missed his obvious affinity for the Lib/Dems.:winking:

maybe, I just thought he lives in mainland Europe so was automatically 'Remain' rather that aligned to a party

 

[rigsby]

Well, the Tory party is fair game as is the Labour Party and Liberal Democrats for you, it's not getting personal. I just find people calling party leaders 'wet lettuces' and 'inadequate negociators', when their negociating skills haven't been tested, a bit disappointing. Of course, as I said above, I'll make an exception for Boris who, with tendency to make gaffes, invites open season on himself all year round.:smile:

Why do you have to make cheap jibes about politicians with whom you don't agree? and derogatory comments about other European politicians you have never heard of (apart from when you chanced on a book they had written)? If you (the UK) are searching for a good deal I would suggest this air of arrogance and self-righteousness you display, needs to be put on the back burner. The impression I have from your comments, is that you don't want anything to do with Europe ( a perfectly legitimate point of view)........................apart from when it serves your interests.

I'm so arrogant and self righteous I might just join a French forum and tell them how to vote. Then when I lose I'll try an insult a few who don't agree with me. Especially the ones who come out with facts I have no answer to.

 

[mrsblue]

I'm so arrogant and self righteous I might just join a French forum and tell them how to vote. Then when I lose I'll try an insult a few who don't agree with me. Especially the ones who come out with facts I have no answer to.

I'm still waiting for Yogi's explanation why it's ok for Hollande to issue threats,but then Yogi rounded on Boris for making a mild and amusing comment.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Hollande in October said...."there must must be a threat,must be risk,must be a price.....not very diplomatic.

Thanks for that. I've gone back to an article on that speech. The fuller quote was.........

"There must be a threat, a risk, a price, otherwise we will be in negotiations - I know Michel Barnier is working on it - that cannot end well."

Yep, perhaps I'm being a little hard on May, as both sides, denied negociations until article50 is evoked, are posturing, which I suppose is normal. In fact, utterences like this from Hollande and other European politicians may well have had an effect of moulding the goverment's thinking into a more realistic position. Hence the understanding that the wish to maintain access to the single market had to be dropped.
Of course the Brexit debate depends which side you view it from, the predicament of the EU is pretty well summed up in the same article.

"The EU is currently stuck between a rock and a hard place on Brexit negotiation. If the EU were to give Britain a good deal, it would inspire other countries to leave and might insufflate new life into populist parties that are already gaining more and more support throughout Europe.

On the other hand, if they treat Britain too badly, they risk antagonizing the public by seeming more like a gang you're not allowed to leave than a bloc of countries united by common values.
Now, though, it looks like the EU is prepared to fight a tough battle with Britain as it starts seeing the outcome of the Brexit negotiations as central to its own survival."

There is another good recent article in the Independent..............

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...iff-edge-david-davis-article-50-a7532806.html

which strikes a similar note when it says,


"The other leaders do not want to punish Britain because we have offended them by voting to Leave, although we have. They have to punish Britain because they cannot allow their peoples to think that they, too, could leave the EU and still enjoy most of the benefits of membership.

Most of them are not as anti-EU as the British, but if the Hungarians, Czechs, Poles, Dutch and Danes thought that leaving the EU was a cost-free way of controlling immigration they might easily become so."

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

I'm still waiting for Yogi's explanation why it's ok for Hollande to issue threats,but then Yogi rounded on Boris for making a mild and amusing comment.

The problem is, that what you and others in the UK may consider a mild and amusing comment, is taken rather differently over this side of the pond.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...bhorrent-brexit-nazi-comparison-a7533621.html

 

[mrsblue]

The problem is, that what you and others in the UK may consider a mild and amusing comment, is taken rather differently over this side of the pond.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...bhorrent-brexit-nazi-comparison-a7533621.html

Yes of course...but it works both ways.

Personally IMO the EU is a dead duck walking....when we leave there is a black hole of 15 billion quid ,Germany look favourite to fill that black hole but the German people are getting fed up with the EU nonsense.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

I'm so arrogant and self righteous I might just join a French forum and tell them how to vote. Then when I lose I'll try an insult a few who don't agree with me. Especially the ones who come out with facts I have no answer to.

If you're french, it may work. :smile: I have kind of given up discussing with you as we appear to be politically, diametrically opposite to each other, so arguing seems little point. I accept your opinion and will only criticise when I think the post merits it. You're probably a very nice bloke (we support the same team..........so you can't be all that bad), empathic to other people and their situations and not at all arrogant or self-righteous. If that is the case I apologise unreservedly!

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Yes of course...but it works both ways.

Personally IMO the EU is a dead duck walking....when we leave there is a black hole of 15 billion quid ,Germany look favourite to fill that black hole but the German people are getting fed up with the EU nonsense.

Look, I don't know what the future holds for Europe. There are certainly many difficulties ahead, not least the euro which, though a brilliant idea, is probably in desperate need of reform to ensure its continuation. I am a passionate adherent to it's ideals though its structure is far from perfect. The possible break up of Europe should not fill anyone with joy and should be a cause for concern. There looks to be undermining of the continent's unity by both Putin and Trump who have their own political agendas. Certainly, the departure of the UK is a massive blow and perhaps you can understand how we (in Europe) are reacting. It will hurt us greatly, we are the injured party......it's not us that demanded the divorce. Then for the UK to try and ask for as good a deal in separation as they had when married rather rubs salt into the wound.

 

[mrsblue]

Look, I don't know what the future holds for Europe. There are certainly many difficulties ahead, not least the euro which, though a brilliant idea, is probably in desperate need of reform to ensure its continuation. I am a passionate adherent to it's ideals though its structure is far from perfect. The possible break up of Europe should not fill anyone with joy and should be a cause for concern. There looks to be undermining of the continent's unity by both Putin and Trump who have their own political agendas. Certainly, the departure of the UK is a massive blow and perhaps you can understand how we (in Europe) are reacting. It will hurt us greatly, we are the injured party......it's not us that demanded the divorce. Then for the UK to try and ask for as good a deal in separation as they had when married rather rubs salt into the wound.

The EU had chance after chance to soften their views on freedom of movement....yet they refused.
The EU should have threw out Greece,instead they just gave them more money.
Merkel must have had a brainstorm inviting migrants by the million .
Cailas was another mad example of the real EU.


People are fed up with idiots in suits telling us what is best for us.....hopefully Trump will be very good,then the career politicians will be phased out very quickly.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

maybe, I just thought he lives in mainland Europe so was automatically 'Remain' rather that aligned to a party

Well, due to the 15 year rule I was disenfranchised from british voting quite a long time ago. So I don't have allegiance to any particular party. I did work for the Liberal party & Social & Lib Dems during 25 years in the UK and still have some sympathy for their views. I would describe myself as left of centre (though I'm not even sure that kind of category applies these days). If I had the vote in the French Presidential election, I'd probably support Macron (for a number of reasons). I do have a weakness, in that I have an almost pathological dislike for Conservatives, especially right-wing ones. It's something I try to keep hidden and under control but somehow Rigsby seems to have found it out.:winking:

 

[rigsby]

Look, I don't know what the future holds for Europe. There are certainly many difficulties ahead, not least the euro which, though a brilliant idea, is probably in desperate need of reform to ensure its continuation. I am a passionate adherent to it's ideals though its structure is far from perfect. The possible break up of Europe should not fill anyone with joy and should be a cause for concern. There looks to be undermining of the continent's unity by both Putin and Trump who have their own political agendas. Certainly, the departure of the UK is a massive blow and perhaps you can understand how we (in Europe) are reacting. It will hurt us greatly, we are the injured party......it's not us that demanded the divorce. Then for the UK to try and ask for as good a deal in separation as they had when married rather rubs salt into the wound.

Then you shouldn't have slept with those dirty little scrubbers....Romania and Bulgaria. I forgave you the previous affair with Greece.....Oh you do remember her don't you....The one you spent all our money on with fancy gifts and nights in expensive hotels, whilst me and the kids went without back in Britain.

The final straw is the mums at the school gate tell me you've been flirting with Turkey. It all seemed so romantic back in 73 when I allowed myself to be swept of my feet with that sexy French accent but my father was right.....Never trust a Frenchie.

No wonder you won't take any responsibility....Men they just never grow up.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

The EU had chance after chance to soften their views on freedom of movement....yet they refused.
The EU should have threw out Greece,instead they just gave them more money.
Merkel must have had a brainstorm inviting migrants by the million .
Cailas was another mad example of the real EU.


People are fed up with idiots in suits telling us what is best for us.....hopefully Trump will be very good,then the career politicians will be phased out very quickly.

No, I'm not following you down this avenue. We can all hope that Trump will be 'very good' although I am not sure of the advance from 'idiots in suits' to millionaire businessmen with vested interests, running a country. I hope that you and those who voted for Trump (and indeed the whole world) will not be in for a great disappointment.......although I'm very much afraid it will be.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The Independent:

[h=1]UK post-Brexit trade deal with India threatened by Theresa May's visa crackdown[/h]‘We cannot separate free movement of people from the free flow of goods, services and investments’

 

[Bielzibubz]

Good, bad and/or indifferent. This site has them all. Post Brexit there will be winners and there will be losers, of that there is no doubt. There will be many uncertainties as we go down this road and that will cause all kind of speculation and debate, again, that's not in doubt. Compromise after compromise will be made on both sides, you can be sure of that. It's not in anyone's interest to be belligerent and bullish. There will be cart loads of spin, waffle and political double talk for us all to chew over for months and moths (get's the post count up I suppose) There will be posturing and Sabre rattling from all and sundry for months (it's started already) and there may even be one or two truths told along the way.

We'll get all that and more but one thing I'm absolutely certain of. Germany (and others) will continue to export shed loads of cars here to the UK and we'll continue to buy them in shed loads (I mean, come on, when your renewing the lease/personal finance agreement on that nice shiny new Merc are you seriously going to worry about another £700.00 on the ticket price? no, and neither would I) The French will continue to export all that French stuff they send us (can't think of anything tangible right now) and we'll continue to send them our shyte in return. The pound will fluctuate up and down at the merest hint of the next snippet of good or bad news and the FTSE will go up and down according to how much of the wealth is being distributed and to whom. Oh, and the financial services sector and all that goes with it will continue to have it's European heart right here in London (the annual £3b coming in from the EU to the UK and £96b going out from the UK to the EU will see to that)

I suppose what I'm trying to say is. THE UK WON'T SINK. We will continue to be a major player on the worlds stage and we'll continue to be and influential, global trading power who will still be able to mix it with the big boys. Stop stressing about it so much and get on with life. You Know, it's that thing with BIG up's and some equally BIG down's in it. :winking:

PS.....Lurrrve the ignore button :smile:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Then you shouldn't have slept with those dirty little scrubbers....Romania and Bulgaria. I forgave you the previous affair with Greece.....Oh you do remember her don't you....The one you spent all our money on with fancy gifts and nights in expensive hotels, whilst me and the kids went without back in Britain.

The final straw is the mums at the school gate tell me you've been flirting with Turkey. It all seemed so romantic back in 73 when I allowed myself to be swept of my feet with that sexy French accent but my father was right.....Never trust a Frenchie.

No wonder you won't take any responsibility....Men they just never grow up.

Gave up turkish delight a long time ago anyway, that was all a Farage........sorry I meant a mirage. Careful, I'm still seeing my romanian doctor.........when she gets back from pregnancy leave. :blush: