Hard or Soft Brexit?

[yogi bear up the cagire]

And for those of us on this side of the channel?

roughly........."I'm leaving you, however, we can go on sleeping together when I feel like it." the English way of leaving the EU.

 

[Benfleet A1]

roughly........."I'm leaving you, however, we can go on sleeping together when I feel like it." the English way of leaving the EU.

Sounds a little like something I said to my first wife.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

So, May kicks the EU Brexit ball off with threats and a bit of blackmail...........presumably to illustrate Britain's position of strength and to show those bloody Europeans who exactly they're dealing with. If it were a game of football I bet today's cringing Daily Mail front page would be pinned up in every EU negociator's changing rooms.

http://en.kiosko.net/uk/np/daily_mail.html

 

[superblue24]

So, May kicks the EU Brexit ball off with threats and a bit of blackmail...........presumably to illustrate Britain's position of strength and to show those bloody Europeans who exactly they're dealing with. If it were a game of football I bet today's cringing Daily Mail front page would be pinned up in every EU negociator's changing rooms.

http://en.kiosko.net/uk/np/daily_mail.html

unless you actually watched her speech. Media will report it any way they like but I didn't hear any of that. I heard that we weren't going to be bullied into some ****** deal and that if that meant no deal, then so be it. Of course it's people like you who will dig their heels in and criticise everything to make Brexit as difficult as possible for your fellow countrymen. Didn't get your own way so it shouldn't be easy any other way, right?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I am arguing that referendums have been offered by governments, but not delivered....presumably you would agree that this has happened?

"We will put it — the EU Constitution — to the British people in a referendum and campaign whole-heartedly for a 'Yes' vote." — Labour Party manifesto, May 2005

"We will have a referendum on the constitution in any event — and that is a Government promise." — Tony Blair, The Sun, May 13, 2005

"Well, if it were necessary to hold a referendum, of course [we wouldn't hesitate]. I suspect that the best deal for Britain will be won, where we will get what we want, at this summit." — Gordon Brown, GMTV, June 19, 2007

"We would not agree to a deal that crossed the red lines, therefore, we did not believe a referendum would be necessary." — Later that day, Downing Street website

"The manifesto is what we put to the public. We've got to honour that manifesto." — Gordon Brown, BBC 1 Politics Show, June 24, 2007

I aware that Blair said he'd hold a referendum if the UK ever joined the Euro on his watch.I'm also aware that the leaders of all 3 main parties offered a referendum after the Lisbon agreement.

 

[rigsby]

So, May kicks the EU Brexit ball off with threats and a bit of blackmail...........presumably to illustrate Britain's position of strength and to show those bloody Europeans who exactly they're dealing with. If it were a game of football I bet today's cringing Daily Mail front page would be pinned up in every EU negociator's changing rooms.

http://en.kiosko.net/uk/np/daily_mail.html

Tim Farron would have conceded the points without playing.

Have you ever heard of Guy Verhofstadt........Nope neither had I until the other day. He is the chief Brexit negotiator for the EU. Of course as the former PM of Belgium he immediately qualifies for the job because that's where all failed politicians from Belgium and Luxembourg end up....A highly paid top job with the EU.

He has just released a book called Europe's Last Chance which sounds like a good read for any of you expats when you retire into the shade for a few hours on a nice sunny day. However be warned, you might well be in for a shock.

He freely admits that the EU's integration policy has been a disaster. In his own words "Never have I see Europe standing so close to the edge." Now before you Europhiles all start calling him a traitor he does have a solution and its very simple...More Union. Apparently things will only get better if we have a true united States of Europe because at the moment all us individual countries want their say and it would be much better if Brussels had control over everything. Can't have these rebels from Britain having things like their own currency, no we must all be in the Euro and that way we can have just one banking union.

He believes Eurosceptics from the left as well as the right make up only 25% of the population. So he thinks politicians should not fear their voters and push on with the only solution.....More power to a small group of Euro-fedralists.

So now we know, if only we had less of a say in our lives, then those Tunisians would never have jumped in lorries and caused murder and mayhem.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

unless you actually watched her speech. Media will report it any way they like but I didn't hear any of that. I heard that we weren't going to be bullied into some ****** deal and that if that meant no deal, then so be it. Of course it's people like you who will dig their heels in and criticise everything to make Brexit as difficult as possible for your fellow countrymen. Didn't get your own way so it shouldn't be easy any other way, right?

Clarity on the single market has to be welcomed and at least European leaders have a better idea where May is leading Britain. Underlying threats and menaces don't help the situation and only serve to put European people's backs up in which is likely to be a losing situation for both sides. Steel, if is required should be kept for the negociating table not flaunted in arrogance. This kind of cringingly awful and ugly front page epitomises all that was really nasty about the Brexit campaign.........the treading on the EU flag is such a nice touch!
May has set the navigation of her Brexit ship, mine nor anyone elses criticism will not change things, the UK will or will not get the deal it deserves..........only time will tell.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So, May kicks the EU Brexit ball off with threats and a bit of blackmail...........presumably to illustrate Britain's position of strength and to show those bloody Europeans who exactly they're dealing with. If it were a game of football I bet today's cringing Daily Mail front page would be pinned up in every EU negociator's changing rooms.

http://en.kiosko.net/uk/np/daily_mail.html

unless you actually watched her speech. Media will report it any way they like but I didn't hear any of that. I heard that we weren't going to be bullied into some ****** deal and that if that meant no deal, then so be it. Of course it's people like you who will dig their heels in and criticise everything to make Brexit as difficult as possible for your fellow countrymen. Didn't get your own way so it shouldn't be easy any other way, right?

I saw an hour of the speech ((missed the first 15 minutes I think).

I would appear that Yogi's not alone as "EU diplomats and business leaders say hard Brexit will hurt the UK more than it would hurt the remaining EU member states."

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...uk-more-say-eu-diplomats-and-business-leaders

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Tim Farron would have conceded the points without playing.

Have you ever heard of Guy Verhofstadt........Nope neither had I until the other day. He is the chief Brexit negotiator for the EU. Of course as the former PM of Belgium he immediately qualifies for the job because that's where all failed politicians from Belgium and Luxembourg end up....A highly paid top job with the EU.

He has just released a book called Europe's Last Chance which sounds like a good read for any of you expats when you retire into the shade for a few hours on a nice sunny day. However be warned, you might well be in for a shock.

He freely admits that the EU's integration policy has been a disaster. In his own words "Never have I see Europe standing so close to the edge." Now before you Europhiles all start calling him a traitor he does have a solution and its very simple...More Union. Apparently things will only get better if we have a true united States of Europe because at the moment all us individual countries want their say and it would be much better if Brussels had control over everything. Can't have these rebels from Britain having things like their own currency, no we must all be in the Euro and that way we can have just one banking union.

He believes Eurosceptics from the left as well as the right make up only 25% of the population. So he thinks politicians should not fear their voters and push on with the only solution.....More power to a small group of Euro-fedralists.

So now we know, if only we had less of a say in our lives, then those Tunisians would never have jumped in lorries and caused murder and mayhem.

Why do you have to make cheap jibes about politicians with whom you don't agree? and derogatory comments about other European politicians you have never heard of (apart from when you chanced on a book they had written)? If you (the UK) are searching for a good deal I would suggest this air of arrogance and self-righteousness you display, needs to be put on the back burner. The impression I have from your comments, is that you don't want anything to do with Europe ( a perfectly legitimate point of view)........................apart from when it serves your interests.

 

[manor15]

Tim Farron would have conceded the points without playing.

Have you ever heard of Guy Verhofstadt........Nope neither had I until the other day. He is the chief Brexit negotiator for the EU. Of course as the former PM of Belgium he immediately qualifies for the job because that's where all failed politicians from Belgium and Luxembourg end up....A highly paid top job with the EU.

He has just released a book called Europe's Last Chance which sounds like a good read for any of you expats when you retire into the shade for a few hours on a nice sunny day. However be warned, you might well be in for a shock.

He freely admits that the EU's integration policy has been a disaster. In his own words "Never have I see Europe standing so close to the edge." Now before you Europhiles all start calling him a traitor he does have a solution and its very simple...More Union. Apparently things will only get better if we have a true united States of Europe because at the moment all us individual countries want their say and it would be much better if Brussels had control over everything. Can't have these rebels from Britain having things like their own currency, no we must all be in the Euro and that way we can have just one banking union.

He believes Eurosceptics from the left as well as the right make up only 25% of the population. So he thinks politicians should not fear their voters and push on with the only solution.....More power to a small group of Euro-fedralists.

So now we know, if only we had less of a say in our lives, then those Tunisians would never have jumped in lorries and caused murder and mayhem.

1) He won three elections in Belgium and is still highly respected, how does that amount to a failed politician?
2) 26% of the UK population voted for Brexit in the country where euroscepticisim is most prevalent, so either that makes him right or he's overestimating, doesn't it?

 

[mrsblue]

Why do you have to make cheap jibes about politicians with whom you don't agree? and derogatory comments about other European politicians you have never heard of (apart from when you chanced on a book they had written)? If you (the UK) are searching for a good deal I would suggest this air of arrogance and self-righteousness you display, needs to be put on the back burner. The impression I have from your comments, is that you don't want anything to do with Europe ( a perfectly legitimate point of view)........................apart from when it serves your interests.

Farron is a wet lettuce...he loves everyone and everything apart from same sex marriage..not very liberal,is it.

These career politicians from all parties mess up time and time and time and time again !...they are useless.

Trump and his pals will shake up the world...they are hard nosed business people looking for the best deal,which they normally achieve .

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

I saw an hour of the speech ((missed the first 15 minutes I think).

I would appear that Yogi's not alone as "EU diplomats and business leaders say hard Brexit will hurt the UK more than it would hurt the remaining EU member states."

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...uk-more-say-eu-diplomats-and-business-leaders

I strongly believe this sad affair will be harmful and hurtful to both sides. When one embarks upon a divorce both partners often start with hope and good intentions but equally often the proceedings descend into bitterness, spitefulness and disagreement. This is, I fear, what is going top happen in this case.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Farron is a wet lettuce...he loves everyone and everything apart from same sex marriage..not very liberal,is it.

These career politicians from all parties mess up time and time and time and time again !...they are useless.

Trump and his pals will shake up the world...they are hard nosed business people looking for the best deal, which they normally achieve.

Indeed, so how do the prospects of the UK getting a good trade deal from Trump's USA sound???? Frying pan into the fire comes to mind. :smile:

ps another poster who can't resist making cheap jibes at policitians they disagree with

 

[Gremlin]

I strongly believe this sad affair will be harmful and hurtful to both sides. When one embarks upon a divorce both partners often start with hope and good intentions but equally often the proceedings descend into bitterness, spitefulness and disagreement. This is, I fear, what is going top happen in this case.

Interesting view. My own experience of divorce tells me the opposite. Both parties began with a degree of bitterness, spitefulness and disagreement however divorce itself and the passing of time led to hope, good intentions and finally and a brighter, better future with relations between the parties in a better state than it was previously.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Interesting view. My own experience of divorce tells me the opposite. Both parties began with a degree of bitterness, spitefulness and disagreement however divorce itself and the passing of time led to hope, good intentions and finally and a brighter, better future with relations between the parties in a better state than it was previously.

Pleased you personally arranged things well, perhaps you didn't make unreasonable demands.............for the UK/EU we can
only hope.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Johnson's at it again! When I complain about others making cheap comments about politicians I think I'll make an exception for this gaffe laden liability. I, personally, didn't see anything too contentious about M.Audibert's remarks, when he said,

"Britain should not expect a better trading relationship outside Europe than it currently enjoys inside."

Yet it appears to have led Mr Johnson to this odd outburst against François Hollande.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-punishment-beatings-brexit-francois-hollande

 

[mrsblue]

Johnson's at it again! When I complain about others making cheap comments about politicians I think I'll make an exception for this gaffe laden liability. I, personally, didn't see anything too contentious about M.Audibert's remarks, when he said,

"Britain should not expect a better trading relationship outside Europe than it currently enjoys inside."

Yet it appears to have led Mr Johnson to this odd outburst against François Hollande.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-punishment-beatings-brexit-francois-hollande

Its ok for Hollande to issue threats then ?

 

[rigsby]

Indeed, so how do the prospects of the UK getting a good trade deal from Trump's USA sound???? Frying pan into the fire comes to mind. :smile:

ps another poster who can't resist making cheap jibes at policitians they disagree with

Where as you just do it to the Tory party and of course anyone else who doesn't agree with you.

 

[superblue24]

I strongly believe this sad affair will be harmful and hurtful to both sides. When one embarks upon a divorce both partners often start with hope and good intentions but equally often the proceedings descend into bitterness, spitefulness and disagreement. This is, I fear, what is going top happen in this case.

Hmmm, and there was me thinking the Brexit process was being handled by grown ups.

(be sure not to sink to your own "cheap jibes" level with any response to this, yogi)

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Its ok for Hollande to issue threats then ?

Which particular threat were you refering to?