Hard or Soft Brexit?

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I think it is stretching it a bit to say the Lib Dems got votes on the promise of no tuition fees. It was an increase as fees already existed for a start and it was one policy among many. To say that many people hold that against them as a broken promise is very true. Mainly because that is an easily identifiable broken promise.

I think their collapse in 2015 shows how many tactical votes they were benefiting from prior to that.

EU migration accounts for less than 50% of migration and the Tories right now are scouring Europe for medical staff - so I'm not sure why anyone would trust them on immigration reduction.

I don't think anyone should fear Paul Nuttall - in his hometown he has always pulled in appallingly low amount of votes - why would that change? There are two northern by elections due - if Nuttall has any confidence in his abilities to win then he will stand in one of these. If UKIP's finances can hold up to a big push.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Trump promising that a new trade agreement with Britain will be a "priority" once he takes over - see, we're not going to implode any time soon.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Clegg gained votes for that one promise....No tuition fees. Him whining about how he had to compromise and achieved other things made people desert the party in their droves.

He had the power to say to the Tories....Whatever happens we will not have tuition fees otherwise you won't get a single thing through parliament, in fact we will side with Labour. The Tories knew the best way to sink the Liberals was to have Uni fees and boy did it work. Cameron was allowed to bully the house fagg.

Clegg has proved he is the last man in politics to have a say in Brexit negotiations. Of course the liberal left wont learn from the mistake Clegg made, so the Tories are dragging out Brexit. Once Corbyn and that other waste of space Farron speak about immigration then the Tories will win a landslide.

The only person who could take any Tory votes is Paul Nuttall but like the North didn't really take to Farage I don't see Nuttall doing well in the South. For some reason we don't take to angry/whinging scousers. However he could do some serious damage up North for to the Labour party.......After their record defeat I can see it now....."We need to listen to people"...."lessons must be learnt"

It's those voices in my head! :smile: One is telling me to fight fire with fire and like *** and Barna, reply in detail to your arguments, offering an alternative view. The other is reminding me of advice I got early in my UK political canvassing life. That was, don't waste time on the doorstep with people who hold strong opinions opposed to your own, you'll never change their views. As I'm personally not short of things to do, which need my urgent attention, for the moment the latter voice is more appealing. Thus I wish you and your supporters all the success in future negotiations and hope that you will be deleriously happy in your Tory Brexit wonderland. In addition, what could be better than to have Trump working out a quick deal which will make Britain, like the USA, great again?...................when he finds the time. (it may be educational to research the opinion of people who have already had dealings with him). All this while Putin benignly smiles down on the world and the direction it is presently taking. Have a good day.:smile:

 

[mrsblue]

He certainly showed an enormous naivity and both he and his party paid a very heavy price, in 2015, for his decision to back down on opposing the rise of tuition fees. I can only imagine it was a conciliatory gesture as a minor party entering into coalition.............some things you win, some you lose, that's what politics is about. In retrospect it was an extremely bad decision and Clegg could never have imagined how his coalition partner, the Tory party and the right-wing press would later exploit, in such devastating fashion, what was seen as a weakness on his part. Let's however not forget, it was the Conservative Party who raised tution fees, not the Lib Dems, their guilt only lies in not strongly opposing the measure.

No..Clegg promised something which he couldn't deliver..he fell on his sword and rightly so.

Whenever Clegg opened his mouth a lot of liberal bilge would frow from it,voters are sick of these career politicians telling them what is best for them.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Trump promising that a new trade agreement with Britain will be a "priority" once he takes over - see, we're not going to implode any time soon.

Indeed. Donald Trump has said everything's going to be fine, and I for one trust him 100%.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I think it is stretching it a bit to say the Lib Dems got votes on the promise of no tuition fees. It was an increase as fees already existed for a start and it was one policy among many. To say that many people hold that against them as a broken promise is very true. Mainly because that is an easily identifiable broken promise.

I think their collapse in 2015 shows how many tactical votes they were benefiting from prior to that.

EU migration accounts for less than 50% of migration and the Tories right now are scouring Europe for medical staff - so I'm not sure why anyone would trust them on immigration reduction.

I don't think anyone should fear Paul Nuttall - in his hometown he has always pulled in appallingly low amount of votes - why would that change? There are two northern by elections due - if Nuttall has any confidence in his abilities to win then he will stand in one of these. If UKIP's finances can hold up to a big push.

Anecdotal,of course, but I've met at least two young people who voted Lib/Dem precisely because of that no-tuition fees promise.

Hope you're right about Stoke but UKIP should poll well there.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Trump promising that a new trade agreement with Britain will be a "priority" once he takes over - see, we're not going to implode any time soon.

This is what the city think of Mrs Maybe's forthcoming speech.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-38632140 "Pound falls ahead of Theresa May Brexit speech."

We're not in La,La Land yet.

 

[rigsby]

Anecdotal,of course, but I've met at least two young people who voted Lib/Dem precisely because of that no-tuition fees promise.

Hope you're right about Stoke but UKIP should poll well there.

Thanks Tangled, I was about to highlight the same line. Like many women her ladyship has lots of friends who's children are the same age. In 2010 we also had lots of young people in and out of her house talking about their first vote. All of them put Cleggg's promise of no tuition fees at the top of the list. Some of them learnt a lesson in 'liberalism' very early in life and may never vote for them again.

 

[rigsby]

It's those voices in my head! :smile: One is telling me to fight fire with fire and like *** and Barna, reply in detail to your arguments, offering an alternative view. The other is reminding me of advice I got early in my UK political canvassing life. That was, don't waste time on the doorstep with people who hold strong opinions opposed to your own, you'll never change their views. As I'm personally not short of things to do, which need my urgent attention, for the moment the latter voice is more appealing. Thus I wish you and your supporters all the success in future negotiations and hope that you will be deleriously happy in your Tory Brexit wonderland. In addition, what could be better than to have Trump working out a quick deal which will make Britain, like the USA, great again?...................when he finds the time. (it may be educational to research the opinion of people who have already had dealings with him). All this while Putin benignly smiles down on the world and the direction it is presently taking. Have a good day.:smile:

Did that advice include call them a Tory.

Another expat who thinks the very people he 'claims' to represent should all suffer because the EU is convenient for you.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Did that advice include call them a Tory.

Another expat who thinks the very people he 'claims' to represent should all suffer because the EU is convenient for you.

Tbf Yogi's done a lot of canvassing for the Lib/Dems in his time.

I don't necessarily agree with his opinions about UK politics but I do about the EU.

In any case he's a very genuine guy and "convenience" has nothing to do with his opinion.

 

[mrsblue]

Did that advice include call them a Tory.

Another expat who thinks the very people he 'claims' to represent should all suffer because the EU is convenient for you.

Tangled is good entertainment ,however the yogi one only has time to flog his junk from market stalls in deepest France :stunned:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Tangled is good entertainment ,however the yogi one only has time to flog his junk from market stalls in deepest France :stunned:

I love you mrsblue XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX:smile::tease:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Tbf Yogi's done a lot of canvassing for the Lib/Dems in his time.

I don't necessarily agree with his opinions about UK politics but I do about the EU.

In any case he's a very genuine guy and "convenience" has nothing to do with his opinion.

Thank you Barna, if I am ever in need of a personal reference...................:smile:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Did that advice include call them a Tory.

Another expat who thinks the very people he 'claims' to represent should all suffer because the EU is convenient for you.

No, the advice was to mark them A for Against.........smile and quietly retreat. (it's probably what I should be doing here) Who said anything about suffering? everything is rosy for you at the moment, you're surely not concerned by what a small number of ex-pats and a few 'experts' believe?...........enjoy:smile: I do take particular offence to your last sentence, I was born in 1946, my commitment to the idea of a strong, united and peaceful Europe runs FAR deeper than any personal convenience.

 

[rigsby]

No, the advice was to mark them A for Against.........smile and quietly retreat. (it's probably what I should be doing here) Who said anything about suffering? everything is rosy for you at the moment, you're surely not concerned by what a small number of ex-pats and a few 'experts' believe?...........enjoy:smile: I do take particular offence to your last sentence, I was born in 1946, my commitment to the idea of a strong, united and peaceful Europe runs FAR deeper than any personal convenience.

Shame its your very misguided views on liberalism that will result in the end of the EU and has brought terror rather than peace to Europe.

The next attack will be by a bogus asylum seeker with a criminal record and known to the authorities. He will despise women and anybody like me or you who value and want to protect our Liberal society. Some of us are brave enough to stand up for those values. Yet our biggest fight is with the liberal left, who's biggest fear is making a faux pas comment about immigration at a dinner party in Crouch End.

By the way, I found the best option for fighting fire was with lots of water.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Shame its your very misguided views on liberalism that will result in the end of the EU and has brought terror rather than peace to Europe.

The next attack will be by a bogus asylum seeker with a criminal record and known to the authorities. He will despise women and anybody like me or you who value and want to protect our Liberal society. Some of us are brave enough to stand up for those values. Yet our biggest fight is with the liberal left, who's biggest fear is making a faux pas comment about immigration at a dinner party in Crouch End.

By the way, I found the best option for fighting fire was with lots of water.

I love you too!............be careful you don't drown in all that water, or hate. :smile:

 

[rigsby]

Thank you Barna, if I am ever in need of a personal reference...................:smile:

I wouldn't if I were you. Tangled is Racist and Sexist. I'm not making it up, its actually official now.

He has been reported in a study by the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) in London. They say that black students progress is being stalled by tutors who at 60 year old white men and "potentially racist"

They allow white males to dominate class discussions and have less expectations of the BME, or coloured as the say in Spain, as they think the're lazy. The students have nothing in common and cannot have a rapport with these old white men.

the Study goes on to say that ALL academics must accept that they are capable of racism and not to focus on the "whiteness" of higher education.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

I wouldn't if I were you. Tangled is Racist and Sexist. I'm not making it up, its actually official now.

He has been reported in a study by the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) in London. They say that black students progress is being stalled by tutors who at 60 year old white men and "potentially racist"



They allow white males to dominate class discussions and have less expectations of the BME, or coloured as the say in Spain, as they think the're lazy. The students have nothing in common and cannot have a rapport with these old white men.

the Study goes on to say that ALL academics must accept that they are capable of racism and not to focus on the "whiteness" of higher education.

Doesn't worry me. Of course, I will continue to 'flog my junk' to people of any race, creed, colour or religion............even to mrsblue, if she's interested. :smile:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I wouldn't if I were you. Tangled is Racist and Sexist. I'm not making it up, its actually official now.

He has been reported in a study by the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) in London. They say that black students progress is being stalled by tutors who at 60 year old white men and "potentially racist"

They allow white males to dominate class discussions and have less expectations of the BME, or coloured as the say in Spain, as they think the're lazy. The students have nothing in common and cannot have a rapport with these old white men.

the Study goes on to say that ALL academics must accept that they are capable of racism and not to focus on the "whiteness" of higher education.

Ha! I remember when I went over to London for 3 months in the early 90's to finish off my MA in TESOL at UCL, one of the Senior Lecturers there was in trouble with students for his "sexist" views.


He wasn't sexist at all.Just the wrong side of 60 (like me now).:cricko:

(SOAS, was of course, just next door.I used to share residential accomodation nearby with a lot of their postgrad.students).

 

[rigsby]

Ha! I remember when I went over to London for 3 months in the early 90's to finish off my MA in TESOL at UCL, one of the Senior Lecturers there was in trouble with students for his "sexist" views.


He wasn't sexist at all.Just the wrong side of 60 (like me now).:cricko:

(SOAS, was of course, just next door.I used to share residential accomodation nearby with a lot of their postgrad.students).

Like the study says, you need to accept that you are racist and sexist.

Or you could become an Imam and teach Islam...No complaints about sexism in those classes.