EU: In or out?

[manor15]

I see even that nice President Obama thinks the UK should remain in the EU.


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-33647154

I don't give a hoot what Obama thinks, I want out, and I want it as soon as possible.

This is where I really don't understand the reasoning behind the 'no' camp. So often hear them claim that we would be fine outside the EU and with reduced trade terms in a new agreement due to our relationship with the USA and Commonwealth countries, yet the USA and Australia are among those who have said that they want the UK to stay in the EU, but the 'no' camp claim it's none of their business.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

This is where I really don't understand the reasoning behind the 'no' camp. So often hear them claim that we would be fine outside the EU and with reduced trade terms in a new agreement due to our relationship with the USA and Commonwealth countries, yet the USA and Australia are among those who have said that they want the UK to stay in the EU, but the 'no' camp claim it's none of their business.

My belief is that the economic and political sides of remaining part of the EU are seperate for both the USA and Commonwealth countries. The USA wants us to stay within the EU as it believes, rightly IMO, that the UK takes more of a lead in world affairs and is a proper partner for the USA AND also leads other EU countries in the same direction - which might/would be less likely if the UK left the EU; hence the USA acting in it's own interest to a large part.
With countries like Australia they have found it easier to trade with the EU as we are the "front door" for that, which we would not be, if we left; hence they also are looking for their own interests.
And both those "interests" may not be what is best for the UK.

 

[manor15]

My belief is that the economic and political sides of remaining part of the EU are seperate for both the USA and Commonwealth countries. The USA wants us to stay within the EU as it believes, rightly IMO, that the UK takes more of a lead in world affairs and is a proper partner for the USA AND also leads other EU countries in the same direction - which might/would be less likely if the UK left the EU; hence the USA acting in it's own interest to a large part.
With countries like Australia they have found it easier to trade with the EU as we are the "front door" for that, which we would not be, if we left; hence they also are looking for their own interests.
And both those "interests" may not be what is best for the UK.

Agree with you completely, but this is my point. Australia trade with us and a lot of that trade is simply giving Australia access to EU countries, which would be lost if we left the EU, yet people argue that we don't need the EU as much as we think because of all the trade we have with Australia.

 

[callan]

Agree with you completely, but this is my point. Australia trade with us and a lot of that trade is simply giving Australia access to EU countries, which would be lost if we left the EU, yet people argue that we don't need the EU as much as we think because of all the trade we have with Australia.

Not sure I am following this....the NO camp are saying that it is possible to trade without being members of the EU.
There are already examples of this in Switzerland, Norway etc.
Australia are free to trade with the EU regardless of whether the UK are members or not.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Not sure I am following this....the NO camp are saying that it is possible to trade without being members of the EU.
There are already examples of this in Switzerland, Norway etc.
Australia are free to trade with the EU regardless of whether the UK are members or not.

Of course,Switzerland,Norway etc all have to pay handsomely to make sure that the goods they produce conform to EU standards.

While at the same time they have no say whatsoever in what these standards are.

 

[callan]

Of course,Switzerland,Norway etc all have to pay handsomely to make sure that the goods they produce conform to EU standards.

While at the same time they have no say whatsoever in what these standards are.

Making them no different to any other Nation such as China that trades with the EU....or indeed the UK.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Making them no different to any other Nation such as China that trades with the EU....or indeed the UK.

Hardly.

As a member state, the UK doesn't have to pay to trade with other EU countries.China and "Switzerland,Norway etc" do.

Also, as a member state, the UK has a say in framing EU standards legislation,non-EU countries don't.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Hardly.

As a member state, the UK doesn't have to pay to trade with other EU countries.China and "Switzerland,Norway etc" do.

Also, as a member state, the UK has a say in framing EU standards legislation,non-EU countries don't.

Whats that hashtag that gets used in situations like this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

"Britain’s choice is this: it can choose to stay in the single market – a very deep FTA, agreed with its largest trade partners, and one with a proven track record in reducing the cost of trade. Or it can leave it, and try to sign dozens of free trade agreements with less certain benefits to make up for the opportunities forgone in Europe. The conclusion should be obvious: free traders should support Britain’s continued membership of the EU."

- See more at: http://www.cer.org.uk/insights/would-britain’s-trade-be-freer-outside-eu#sthash.s6abyobw.dpuf

 

[Benfleet A1]

"Britain’s choice is this: it can choose to stay in the single market – a very deep FTA, agreed with its largest trade partners, and one with a proven track record in reducing the cost of trade. Or it can leave it, and try to sign dozens of free trade agreements with less certain benefits to make up for the opportunities forgone in Europe. The conclusion should be obvious: free traders should support Britain’s continued membership of the EU."

- See more at: http://www.cer.org.uk/insights/would-britain’s-trade-be-freer-outside-eu#sthash.s6abyobw.dpuf

No need to shout. I'm still waiting for explanation as to why the EU accounts haven't been signed off for the past 25 years. A question that every single pro EU'er avoids like the plague.

 

[callan]

Hardly.

As a member state, the UK doesn't have to pay to trade with other EU countries.China and "Switzerland,Norway etc" do.

Also, as a member state, the UK has a say in framing EU standards legislation,non-EU countries don't.

In terms of your original post all have to conform to standards.

And the UK pays to be part of the EU club, in terms of decision making we are one of lots of voices., and if out voted lose self determination.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Let's cut to the chase here guys.

Camerscum will come back with a deal from Brussels and will recommend staying in on his "improved terms".

You and your fellow Kippers will vote no along with quite a few swivel-eyed loons from the Tory right.

The vast majority of the Great British public will vote yes.

End of story.

 

[callan]

Let's cut to the chase here guys.

Camerscum will come back with a deal from Brussels and will recommend staying in on his "improved terms".

You and your fellow Kippers will vote no along with quite a few swivel-eyed loons from the Tory right.

The vast majority of the Great British public will vote yes.

End of story.

Whatever he outcome I doubt it will be the end of the story...also remind me how your previous political predictions have gone....wasn't Milliband according to you supposed to be our Prime minister by now?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Whatever he outcome I doubt it will be the end of the story...also remind me how your previous political predictions have gone....wasn't Milliband according to you supposed to be our Prime minister by now?

Don't think you'll find any post of mine that actually predicted he would win.

Though that was certainly the conventional wisdom of the pollsters until the exit poll was released.

BTW,nice try to change the topic back to your favourite subject - the Labour party.

It may not be the end of the story (for Kippers and the extreme Tory right) but I think we both know that the UK will vote for continued membership of Europe in the referendum.

 

[callan]

Don't think you'll find any post of mine that actually predicted he would win.

Though that was certainly the conventional wisdom of the pollsters until the exit poll was released.

BTW,nice try to change the topic back to your favourite subject - the Labour party.

It may not be the end of the story (for Kippers and the extreme Tory right) but I think we both know that the UK will vote for continued membership of Europe in the referendum.

How can we possibly know a result before it has happened?

Both sides of the debate need to be heard, and then the public will make a choice.

Talking of your left wing buddies (Labour) are they for or against the referendum this week?:winking:

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Let's cut to the chase here guys.

Camerscum will come back with a deal from Brussels and will recommend staying in on his "improved terms".

You and your fellow Kippers will vote no along with quite a few swivel-eyed loons from the Tory right.

The vast majority of the Great British public will vote yes.

End of story.

When I read this my thoughts were of Nev Chamberlain and his deal with Adolf; not a fair comparison but similarly to the Scots referendum I don't think that the issue will go away with a Yes vote: unless the EU radically overhauls and reforms and that is as likely as turkeys voting for Christmas.
So there is not an "End of story".

 

[Bielzibubz]

As usual TUIB, commenting on the feelings of the UK populace from a couple of thousand miles away, has little comprehension of the depth of feeling against the EU her in the UK. You make the mistake of basing your opinions on selected media news and articles without actually listening to or seeing first hand what it is you purport to have such a clear cut opinion about.

This is NOT the same UK you left back whenever it was. The people here now are not the same gullible, believe all, roll over and play dead population they were a generation ago. We are now far more questionable, far more cynical and far more disbelieving of those that hold the power over our everyday lives. This is a fact of UK life here now you fail to understand.

The day's of our politicians telling us how it is and how it's got to be and just accepting the status quo are long gone my friend. I know that doesn't fit in with your own political ideals but that's the way it is and partly why your always at loggerheads with others on here.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Don't think you'll find any post of mine that actually predicted he would win.

Though that was certainly the conventional wisdom of the pollsters until the exit poll was released.

BTW,nice try to change the topic back to your favourite subject - the Labour party.

It may not be the end of the story (for Kippers and the extreme Tory right) but I think we both know that the UK will vote for continued membership of Europe in the referendum.

From the Barnsley By-Election thread.

You can expect to see some astonishing reverses for the Lib Dems in the Local Government elections later this year.
I would agree that Millibean's performance has been distinctly average so far but I'm more than ever convinced that this will be a one term Government.

I really can't be bothered to dig out anymore but, as usual, that selective bout of alzheimer's you seem to suffer from has kicked in again.

Interestingly, our very own Rusty called it bang on even back then.

I think you're right for a change, it will be a one term government. The next government will be Tory only with no need for coalition. I would hope that most right minded people would appreciate that Britain just can't afford another Labour government.

 

[Rob Noxious]

I think it will be a close call - possibly to the degree of the 55:45 percentage as in Scotland's referendum - but that we will vote to stay in. I doubt that Cameron will be able to extract much from Merkel and co. in the meantime though.

 

[RHB]

Unlike General Elections, I believe there will be far more interest in the referendum from the young of the UK (i.e. - Not us). If that interest is converted into votes cast, then I think the vote to stay in will be achieved with a far larger majority than many on here are predicting. Many 18-30 year olds see Europe as part of their future and job opportunities. They do not have the hang ups we have/had of experiencing pre and post UK in the EU.