EU: In or out?

[Benfleet A1]

There has been lots on here and other media about Greek failure to tackle it's budget and poor, poor regulation and tax issues: BUT the EU has been audited many many times AND NEVER have those accounts been signed off or publicised. On occasions the auditors have walked away from the task because of the corruption they found at Brussells but weren't allowed to record. In short the EU are "pot calling kettle black" and a classic example of "do as I say not how I do".
As is stands = this point in time = OUT OUT OUT!

Totally correct although it will fall on the usual deaf ears. In particular, a set resident in Spain.

 

[mrsblue]

Greece want another 53 billion loan !

The EU is one big messed up place,sooner we vote for our exit the better.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Totally correct although it will fall on the usual deaf ears. In particular, a set resident in Spain.

On the contrary, most comentators (including me),would accept that Greece and Italy should never have been allowed to join the Euro in the first place,for precisely the reasons MG mentions.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Interesting that you have failed (spectacularly) to mention that before. Damage limitation? Anyway, it's all irrelevant really, Greece will get another shed load approved by next week, the EU will continue to cook the books and the gravy train will just keep rolling. I just hope this country has the balls to get off it.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Interesting that you have failed (spectacularly) to mention that before. Damage limitation? Anyway, it's all irrelevant really, Greece will get another shed load approved by next week, the EU will continue to cook the books and the gravy train will just keep rolling. I just hope this country has the balls to get off it.

I am a bit more optimistic than many and possibly a change has been set in motion in Greece and also in the EU. Now is a good time for reforms; small beginnings but every journey starts somewhere.

 

[RHB]

There has been lots on here and other media about Greek failure to tackle it's budget and poor, poor regulation and tax issues: BUT the EU has been audited many many times AND NEVER have those accounts been signed off or publicised. On occasions the auditors have walked away from the task because of the corruption they found at Brussells but weren't allowed to record. In short the EU are "pot calling kettle black" and a classic example of "do as I say not how I do".
As is stands = this point in time = OUT OUT OUT!

Feels a little bit like one of Ron's companies or the club accounts. Yet still we support the club:smiles:

 

[Benfleet A1]

I am a bit more optimistic than many and possibly a change has been set in motion in Greece and also in the EU. Now is a good time for reforms; small beginnings but every journey starts somewhere.

74 billion based on creditors evaluations being banded about by a very reliable source on twitter. I respect a lot of what you post on here Massimo but just how optimistic does this figure leave you. As you said eariler, OUT, OUT , OUT.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Which ever way the Greek debt is counted the sum is NEVER going to be repaid and all know that. The money has gone and it is the politics that needs following. France's Holland had been talking tough on any changes BUT is NOW talking the talk to get this done- he wants to raise his status as a moderate and EU loyalist while enabling Merkal (who has a skeptic populace & looming election) to be the "hardliner" for now. There are many many deals and favours going on behind the scenes and after the German elections I expect to see a large chunk of Greek debt write off and other reforms happening. The EU president (Rumpol?) has gone very quiet and been muzzled so I expect him to go as well. Interesting EU times ahead.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Which ever way the Greek debt is counted the sum is NEVER going to be repaid and all know that. The money has gone and it is the politics that needs following. France's Holland had been talking tough on any changes BUT is NOW talking the talk to get this done- he wants to raise his status as a moderate and EU loyalist while enabling Merkal (who has a skeptic populace & looming election) to be the "hardliner" for now. There are many many deals and favours going on behind the scenes and after the German elections I expect to see a large chunk of Greek debt write off and other reforms happening. The EU president (Rumpol?) has gone very quiet and been muzzled so I expect him to go as well. Interesting EU times ahead.

While you're quite right that the Greek debt will never be paid off, the key point is surely that none of the loan money ever went into the pockets of the Greek people.It all went into paying off interest rates on loans from the troika.

The most interesting point about the new deal on the table from Greece (IMO) is that it involves an element of restructing of Greece's debt.

I also make you right on your "interesting EU times ahead" comment.However, as the Chinese apparently say, "May you not live in interesting times."

 

[Benfleet A1]

This is getting interesting.

http://news.sky.com/story/1517551/greece-accepts-some-demands-in-bailout-bid

Germany talking tough and France talking bollocks by the looks of it. Merkel will say jump and Hollande will ask how high.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

This is getting interesting.

http://news.sky.com/story/1517551/greece-accepts-some-demands-in-bailout-bid

Germany talking tough and France talking bollocks by the looks of it. Merkel will say jump and Hollande will ask how high.

Classic Good Cop-Bad Cop routine?

 

[RHB]

Eurozone leaders have reached an agreement after marathon talks over a third bailout for Greece, officials say. So the Greeks don't appear to want to leave the EU/Eurozone just yet then. It needs confirming, but I believe the amount is around €80 billion this time. A lot of dosh, and I wonder just what the cost will eventually be.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Horrendous austerity for the next few years before we are back to square one I should imagine.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

More debt for Greece that it will never repay. So yet again the EU has ignored the democratic will of a country's people. Does anyone really believe that David Cameron's going to get anything from his 'renegotiation'? The sooner this corrupt undemocratic organisation breaks up the better.

 

[RHB]

More debt for Greece that it will never repay. So yet again the EU has ignored the democratic will of a country's people. Does anyone really believe that David Cameron's going to get anything from his 'renegotiation'? The sooner this corrupt undemocratic organisation breaks up the better.

I've never been a Conservative supporter, but I think you're being a bit harsh calling the Tories corrupt or undemocratic. Perhaps you know something I don't.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Greece owed 320 Billion; it had an income/revenue of about 80Billion per annum and last fiscal year it had outgoings to welfare/defense etc of about 80 billion so it had got to a sort of fiscal harmony however, the BIG HOWEVER is the huge debt and huge repayments and huge interest on the debt so it grew and keeps growing. Take away the interest charges and Greece would have paid a good deal off but all Banks, World, private or IMF want to cut a profit which they are doing on Greece. Sale of assets and privatising sectors ought to bring in a good amount to pay off the debt and other austerity cuts may set them straight in time..................20+ years or so.
Greece has only been a democracy sine 1980s, after the Generals; and the politicos have caused the mayhem by "buying" their jobs thru the benefits/pension/state positions handed out to make a huge public sector in return for their support & now the "chickens have hatched and come home to roost".
I hope the EU and all are watching the "new" democracies (Scotland for example!) for any similar suicidal but popular government strategies.

 

[RHB]

Greece owed 320 Billion; it had an income/revenue of about 80Billion per annum and last fiscal year it had outgoings to welfare/defense etc of about 80 billion so it had got to a sort of fiscal harmony however, the BIG HOWEVER is the huge debt and huge repayments and huge interest on the debt so it grew and keeps growing. Take away the interest charges and Greece would have paid a good deal off but all Banks, World, private or IMF want to cut a profit which they are doing on Greece. Sale of assets and privatising sectors ought to bring in a good amount to pay off the debt and other austerity cuts may set them straight in time..................20+ years or so.
Greece has only been a democracy sine 1980s, after the Generals; and the politicos have caused the mayhem by "buying" their jobs thru the benefits/pension/state positions handed out to make a huge public sector in return for their support & now the "chickens have hatched and come home to roost".
I hope the EU and all are watching the "new" democracies (Scotland for example!) for any similar suicidal but popular government strategies.

Last time I looked, Scotland was part of the United Kingdom, confirmed by referendum. On that basis there are not a solo democracy for EU purposes.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Last time I looked, Scotland was part of the United Kingdom, confirmed by referendum. On that basis there are not a solo democracy for EU purposes.

Ah, BUT the Scottish parliament are making taxation, health and education cost promises that they can't really afford - AND when their fiances hit the buffers who do you think will be left to pay them? I used it as an example but you are right to point out that it has a limited validity. I do also think it is a worry that the rest of the UK needs to wake up too as the main political parties appear to be allowing it to happen so they can garner some credit when it does, eventually, go wrong north of the border.

 

[Bielzibubz]

So let me get this straight.

1. The newly elected anti austerity government of Greece asks the population in a referendum whether they want to accept the EU demands on debt linked austerity measures and they resoundingly say NO

2. After much posturing and calling of various bluffs on both sides the EU again demands a slightly different set but equally harsh austerity measures be implemented by the Greek government in order to release a 3rd bail out sum.

3. The Greek government in turn then realizes the EU has got them firmly by bollox and does exactly what the Greek population voted against and agrees to the latest EU demands on austerity measures and we're back to square one.

I simple terms that's about it isn't it?







































I blame ze Germans.............:winking:

 

[RHB]

So let me get this straight.

1. The newly elected anti austerity government of Greece asks the population in a referendum whether they want to accept the EU demands on debt linked austerity measures and they resoundingly say NO

2. After much posturing and calling of various bluffs on both sides the EU again demands a slightly different set but equally harsh austerity measures be implemented by the Greek government in order to release a 3rd bail out sum.

3. The Greek government in turn then realizes the EU has got them firmly by bollox and does exactly what the Greek population voted against and agrees to the latest EU demands on austerity measures and we're back to square one.

I simple terms that's about it isn't it?







































I blame ze Germans.............:winking:

A very astute summing up!!