EU: In or out?

[Tangled up in Blue]

As usual TUIB, commenting on the feelings of the UK populace from a couple of thousand miles away, has little comprehension of the depth of feeling against the EU her in the UK. You make the mistake of basing your opinions on selected media news and articles without actually listening to or seeing first hand what it is you purport to have such a clear cut opinion about.

This is NOT the same UK you left back whenever it was. The people here now are not the same gullible, believe all, roll over and play dead population they were a generation ago. We are now far more questionable, far more cynical and far more disbelieving of those that hold the power over our everyday lives. This is a fact of UK life here now you fail to understand.

The day's of our politicians telling us how it is and how it's got to be and just accepting the status quo are long gone my friend. I know that doesn't fit in with your own political ideals but that's the way it is and partly why your always at loggerheads with others on here.

People like you are certainly "more questionable." :winking:

 

[Benfleet A1]

Still waiting

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

How can we possibly know a result before it has happened?

Both sides of the debate need to be heard, and then the public will make a choice.

Talking of your left wing buddies (Labour) are they for or against the referendum this week?:winking:

JC certainly hasn't ruled out recommending a No vote, (depending on the agreement actually negociated).

"In hustings, Corbyn has equivocated, not saying whether, as leader, he would campaign for the UK to stay in. Asked to clarify his position on Saturday, he steered more towards the “in” line, saying that Labour should argue for a better EU. “That does not mean walking away, but staying to fight together for a better Europe".

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/26/jeremy-corbyn-team-shocked-momentum

I think you'll find the other leadership contenders will almost certainly recommend a yes vote.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Still waiting

For Godot? :winking:

 

[Benfleet A1]

For Godo? :winking:

Still waiting.

 

[callan]

JC certainly hasn't ruled out recommending a No vote, (depending on the agreement actually negociated).

"In hustings, Corbyn has equivocated, not saying whether, as leader, he would campaign for the UK to stay in. Asked to clarify his position on Saturday, he steered more towards the “in” line, saying that Labour should argue for a better EU. “That does not mean walking away, but staying to fight together for a better Europe".

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/26/jeremy-corbyn-team-shocked-momentum

I think you'll find the other leadership contenders will almost certainly recommend a yes vote.

And whoosh.....it wasn't long ago that Labour were totally against letting the people decide via referendum whether they want to be in or out...how times change eh?

 

[OldBlueLady]

As usual TUIB, commenting on the feelings of the UK populace from a couple of thousand miles away, has little comprehension of the depth of feeling against the EU her in the UK. You make the mistake of basing your opinions on selected media news and articles without actually listening to or seeing first hand what it is you purport to have such a clear cut opinion about.

This is NOT the same UK you left back whenever it was. The people here now are not the same gullible, believe all, roll over and play dead population they were a generation ago. We are now far more questionable, far more cynical and far more disbelieving of those that hold the power over our everyday lives. This is a fact of UK life here now you fail to understand.

The day's of our politicians telling us how it is and how it's got to be and just accepting the status quo are long gone my friend. I know that doesn't fit in with your own political ideals but that's the way it is and partly why your always at loggerheads with others on here.

You might be questionable Phil, but I think I am more questioning! :winking:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

And whoosh.....it wasn't long ago that Labour were totally against letting the people decide via referendum whether they want to be in or out...how times change eh?

The Tories are giving referendums on things they think they can predict the outcome on and in doing so spend a lot of time and money going through the motions.
Labour, Tories, Lib Dems all wanted to keep Scotland in the UK and all want to keep the UK in the EU so having referendums on these things is a little odd but is in someways democratic. Labour are going along with the referendum because it is going to happen.
Its a poor version of democracy though when they tried to repeal the hunting act despite 75-80% of the public backing the ban, they are sending bombers to Syria despite the fact that the last vote in parliament refused permission, they force schools to become academies against parents wishes, court rulings were required to stop them closing hospitals, they promised no top down reorganisation of the NHS then forced through a top down reorganisation of the NHS, I could go on.....

the referendum will probably split the Tories, other than that I has no real value for me as I strongly suspect we are staying in and if there was any real danger of coming out we wouldn't be having a vote on it

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

And whoosh.....it wasn't long ago that Labour were totally against letting the people decide via referendum whether they want to be in or out...how times change eh?

The only reason this referendum is being held is to hold the Tory party together.That's obvious.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You might be questionable Phil, but I think I am more questioning! :winking:

That's because I know the answers already,Kay! :winking:

 

[callan]

The Tories are giving referendums on things they think they can predict the outcome on and in doing so spend a lot of time and money going through the motions.
Labour, Tories, Lib Dems all wanted to keep Scotland in the UK and all want to keep the UK in the EU so having referendums on these things is a little odd but is in someways democratic. Labour are going along with the referendum because it is going to happen.
Its a poor version of democracy though when they tried to repeal the hunting act despite 75-80% of the public backing the ban, they are sending bombers to Syria despite the fact that the last vote in parliament refused permission, they force schools to become academies against parents wishes, court rulings were required to stop them closing hospitals, they promised no top down reorganisation of the NHS then forced through a top down reorganisation of the NHS, I could go on.....

the referendum will probably split the Tories, other than that I has no real value for me as I strongly suspect we are staying in and if there was any real danger of coming out we wouldn't be having a vote on it

I think both Tories and Labour need to tread carefully over Europe, the tories have MP's who are hell bent on coming out of Europe whatever and Cameron will need to work hard on his reforms if he is to appease them, whilst Labour need to shed their out of touch, arrogant we know best attitude on Europe that they had pre election which cost them votes in England and marginalised sections of their support.

 

[callan]

The only reason this referendum is being held is to hold the Tory party together.That's obvious.

Plus Cameron has the mandate of the UK electorate to hold a referendum eh Barna?

Must have been popular.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Plus Cameron has the mandate of the UK electorate to hold a referendum eh Barna?

Must have been popular.

Not that popular.

Less than 25% of the electorate in the UK voted Tory.

That's hardly a ringing endorsement for a referendum on Europe or austerity,for that matter.

"The Conservatives won just over one third of the vote – 37% – but more than half the seats – 51%. The turnout was 66%, with the result that the Tories achieved an overall majority with the backing of only about a quarter of the eligible electorate"

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/08/conservative-win-britain-constitution

It's true though, (since it was in their 2015 manifesto), that the Tories do have a mandate to hold a referendum on Europe.

 

[callan]

Not that popular.

Less than 25% of the electorate in the UK voted Tory.

That's hardly a ringing endorsement for a referendum on Europe or austerity,for that matter.

"The Conservatives won just over one third of the vote – 37% – but more than half the seats – 51%. The turnout was 66%, with the result that the Tories achieved an overall majority with the backing of only about a quarter of the eligible electorate"

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/08/conservative-win-britain-constitution

It's true though, (since it was in their 2015 manifesto), that the Tories do have a mandate to hold a referendum on Europe.

More popular though than what Labour offered , which was not to trust the UK electorate to have a voice over being in Europe.


And as agreed Cameron does have a mandate to do this.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

More popular though than what Labour offered , which was not to trust the UK electorate to have a voice over being in Europe.


And as agreed Cameron does have a mandate to do this.

(As you are fully aware), Labour has changed its policy on this since the election.It's called accepting the inevitable aka political expediency.

It's all academic anyway.Next June, (or whenever),the Great British public will vote yes to staying in the EU.

 

[callan]

(As you are fully aware), Labour has changed its policy on this since the election.It's called accepting the inevitable aka political expediency.

It's all academic anyway.Next June, (or whenever),the Great British public will vote yes to staying in the EU.

How nice of them!

Shame really they didn't accept the ''inevitable'' somewhat earlier.

Keep up the the good work forecasting, with your track record of getting things wrong...:winking: the out voters will probably see it as some sort of good luck omen!

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

It is a long time till June.
I believe French and German elections so lots can change in Cammy's negotiation with the EU.
I believe it is still too tight to call and a few more EU dictates, and press scare stories, of the negative nature could swing it towards an "out" poll.

 

[callan]

It is a long time till June.
I believe French and German elections so lots can change in Cammy's negotiation with the EU.
I believe it is still too tight to call and a few more EU dictates, and press scare stories, of the negative nature could swing it towards an "out" poll.

Thought the elections in Germany and France weren't till 2017?

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Thought the elections in Germany and France weren't till 2017?

I don't know, however, if they are not until after the referendum then re-negotiating the UK position will be harder and an OUT more likely?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Thought the elections in Germany and France weren't till 2017?

That's correct.

I don't know, however, if they are not until after the referendum then re-negotiating the UK position will be harder and an OUT more likely?

Why?

Cameron is hoping "he could still win a legally binding agreement in writing that treaty change would follow once other EU states had finished their own negotiations about revising governance in the euro area."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...hold-new-round-of-talks-with-european-leaders