Dale farm evictions "may breach human rights"

[osymandus]

No I'm not.

You said that intellect is required to maim someone. It may help you be more efficient in doing so, but it's not required. If an utter half-wit who also happened to be quite strong punched you flush in the nose, he'd most likely damage his knuckles, but that wouldn't change the fact that he had maimed you.

Before we return to topic i actually said this "requires an intellect to know where to strike to cripple or maim " which supposes a knowledge to have the awareness to strike to maim or cripple with intent not a wild strike as already stated with the words "striking like animals ".

 

[OldBlueLady]

Before we return to topic i actually said this "requires an intellect to know where to strike to cripple or maim " which supposes a knowledge to have the awareness to strike to maim or cripple with intent not a wild strike as already stated with the words "striking like animals ".

I do take issue with this Osy, what about children who kill? Are you telling me they have the intellect to kill? I'm not just talking your Venables/Thompson types, but those who do so accidentally? Plenty of kids kill pets by mistake and I'd say there's little intellect there at all in those cases.

It's still got little to do with Dale Farm and I'm really pleased the Heritage people at least have the good sense to stand up to them and effectively tell them to eff off.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

It's still got little to do with Dale Farm and I'm really pleased the Heritage people at least have the good sense to stand up to them and effectively tell them to eff off.

I thought they had told them that legally they would have to consider it. It'll be a 'no' but it amuses me that someone thought of that as an option, quite inventive.

 

[Holy Joe]

From the Echo

"
TRAVELLERS at Dale Farm have so far been given £188,000 worth of legal aid.
The shocking figure was revealed by the Legal Service Commission ahead of today's court clash between the travellers and Basildon Council, which it is not funding.
Since 2005 the travellesr on the illegal site at Oak Lane, Crays Hill have been given the cash to fund a string of legal action relating to the illegal development and eviction from the site.
Basildon and Billericay Tory MP John Baron said: "“Too much taxpayers’ money has already been spent on travellers who have illegally developed this site.
"


Wonder how much Baas council has paid on legal fees so far?

 

[Holy Joe]

Also echo has a live text updates from the courtroom today...

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/loc...9.Dale_Farm_High_Court_hearing__live_updates/

12:25: The first challenge was brought by Irish traveller Mary Sheridan.
Her counsel, Marc Willers, said the case had an "extensive history" but Ms Sheridan was not claiming she should be allowed to stay at Dale Farm "forever - or indeed for many years, or even a year".
Mr Willers said: "This claim is brought on this basis: there is no alternative, suitable accommodation at this point in time, and it would be disproportionate to be forced to leave in the absence of such accommodation."


What a load of rubbish! Is there anything new in this latest appeal?

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

14:10: Before the break, Marc Willers, counsel for Mary Sheridan, said the council had not carried out a gypsy and traveller need assessment for the area.

"It is all very well for Basildon to say 'we don't have a need, it's a demand'," said Mr Willers. "If they had devised a strategy having assessed need then all or some of the people on Dale Farm might have been found to have a need and a strategy would have been formed to meet their needs."

Blimey, Sir Humphrey Appleby lives! I'd throw their case out for that paragraph alone.

 

[osymandus]

I do take issue with this Osy, what about children who kill? Are you telling me they have the intellect to kill? I'm not just talking your Venables/Thompson types, but those who do so accidentally? Plenty of kids kill pets by mistake and I'd say there's little intellect there at all in those cases.

It's still got little to do with Dale Farm and I'm really pleased the Heritage people at least have the good sense to stand up to them and effectively tell them to eff off.

My point was making the willed choice to strike in the specific place and knowing the outcome of your strike will be maim cripple or kill is an intellectual choice based on knowledge and study, if anything it reduces needless damage as many poeple are then aware of teh outcome of their actions. The children you describe are as I said wild striking as certain animals . A capacity to kill or a willingness to do so is to do with a lot of factors (in the case of the two about remember we are still hairless chimps and the behaviour they displayed is not uncommon in the chimp world one of our closest primate relative ).

On the topic did love the cheek they tried to get listed status , but spot on for national heritage :D . Travellers should be off once the legal eagles sort themselves out.

 

[Shrimper]

BBC just said they have permission to remove the travellers. I think.

 

[Cricko]

BBC just said they have permission to remove the travellers. I think.

Not all apparently..just most??

 

[Cricko]

5 caravans will remain as will the fencing and gates. Quite bizarre.

 

[steveo]

It gets worse:

The council has been ordered to pay a third of the travellers' legal costs in relation to the injunction at the centre of Monday's hearing.

****ing ridiculous

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It gets worse:

The council has been ordered to pay a third of the travellers' legal costs in relation to the injunction at the centre of Monday's hearing.

****ing ridiculous

I wonder if that figure is included in the new figure of 22 million quid mentioned here(was 18m IIRC) for Basildon council's total costs for removal of the Dale farm residents?That is certainly a ridiculous figure.:winking:
http://youtu.be/mzt5fydrN9A

 

[Shrimper]

It gets worse:

The council has been ordered to pay a third of the travellers' legal costs in relation to the injunction at the centre of Monday's hearing.

****ing ridiculous

I was going to ask how they're going to afford legal help. There's your answer.

 

[osymandus]

5 caravans will remain as will the fencing and gates. Quite bizarre.

Propbaly them cocking up the original order (as they did which caused the injunction)

 

[Shrimper]

Propbaly them cocking up the original order (as they did which caused the injunction)

Or the travellers trying anything to buy more time.

 

[osymandus]

Or the travellers trying anything to buy more time.

Only works if teh courst allow it ON BOTH sides you play by the rule of law or it punish's you . Ignorance is no defence .

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Only works if teh courst allow it ON BOTH sides you play by the rule of law or it punish's you . Ignorance is no defence .

It works for the Pikey's.....they abuse every law going and never get punished.....Good riddance as far as I'm concerned, the sooner they are moved on the better

 

[Moridin]

It gets worse:

The council has been ordered to pay a third of the travellers' legal costs in relation to the injunction at the centre of Monday's hearing.

****ing ridiculous

Ridiculous yes, however costs would only been awarded due the the Council messing up the eviction paperwork.

If the the notices had been completed correctly, then an injunction would not have been granted in the first place.

Basildon Council must have known due to the controversy the eviction was bound to create they would be under intense scrutiny, so making a basic error is incredibly lax.

Surely if the £18 million figure for the costs of the evictions is anywhere near realistic, Basildon could have paid for a better legal team.....

 

[osymandus]

It works for the Pikey's.....they abuse every law going and never get punished.....Good riddance as far as I'm concerned, the sooner they are moved on the better

Clearly not so as they lost the case yesterday and all but 5 caravans must be removed .

 

[OldBlueLady]

So, at around 2 p.m. this afternoon the final ruling is expected that will see if the council can proceed with the evictions or not. As far as I can tell, it seems to hinge on some technicalities so I wonder if the judge, after all his time deliberating, will come up with the common sense decision that, whatever else has gone on and whatever "technicalities" these people want to hide behind, the fundamental truth of the matter is that they have made home illegally on an area that was not designated to be lived on and which they clearly knew at the time they purchased it.

I will be keeping my fingers crossed that on this occasion the law is not the *** it so often seems to be.