Coronavirus (Non-Politics)

[londonblue]

Had my 1st jab yesterday afternoon. Feeling a bit crap today, but paracetamol seems to be keeping it in check

 

[Member]

I just don’t understand it to be honest. It’s being proven vaccines are preventing hospitalisations and deaths yet we’re testing millions of healthy people.

For some reason they have also changed the guidance on lateral flow tests for school children which has been the same the whole way through the pandemic so many with false positives are having to stay at home. The whole way through a positive lateral flow with a negative PCR means you don’t have to self isolate, this has been changed for school children who still have to isolate with a negative PCR. My mum is an assistant in a school and if a teacher has a negative follow up PCR they do not have to self isolate. Doesn’t make sense to me.

That isn't true, although there has been confusion around this which hasn't been helped by the mixed government messages.

If a school child tests positive with a rapid LFD but negative with a PCR then they don't need to complete their self-isolation.

There is practically no chance of getting a positive LFD and positive PCR but not have COVID. There's also practically no chance of getting a positive LFD, a negative PCR, but have COVID.

The rapid LFD tests do very occasionally generate false positives (but it's still pretty rare). Therefore the testing process is using the rapid LFD tests as a way to filter out a significant number of asymptomatic people without COVID, and ensure the PCR tests are used as confirmatory tests and for symptomatic cases. Also if you get an LFD positive result then more likely than not you have COVID (even if asymptomatic), so you can isolate straight away (and await a confirmatory PCR test)

So it makes absolute sense to overrule a LFD result with a PCR result (because they have better diagnostic accuracy in terms of both sensitivity and specificity), and people who are truly negative can get back to work/school.

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

Had my 1st jab yesterday afternoon. Feeling a bit crap today, but paracetamol seems to be keeping it in check

What one did you have?.

 

[jackj13]

That isn't true, although there has been confusion around this which hasn't been helped by the mixed government messages.

If a school child tests positive with a rapid LFD but negative with a PCR then they don't need to complete their self-isolation.

There is practically no chance of getting a positive LFD and positive PCR but not have COVID. There's also practically no chance of getting a positive LFD, a negative PCR, but have COVID.

The rapid LFD tests do very occasionally generate false positives (but it's still pretty rare). Therefore the testing process is using the rapid LFD tests as a way to filter out a significant number of asymptomatic people without COVID, and ensure the PCR tests are used as confirmatory tests and for symptomatic cases. Also if you get an LFD positive result then more likely than not you have COVID (even if asymptomatic), so you can isolate straight away (and await a confirmatory PCR test)

So it makes absolute sense to overrule a LFD result with a PCR result (because they have better diagnostic accuracy in terms of both sensitivity and specificity), and people who are truly negative can get back to work/school.

I respect your comments and that makes sense however unfortunately this is happening. I am also hearing schools telling parents not to bother with a PCR as a negative will not downgrade the test result. Whole things a bit of a mess and not helped by various people contradicting each other before the schools actually went back.

I also don't agree with testing millions of asymptomatic young people. The datas based on hospitalisations and deaths and the chances of school children entering those categories is miniscule.

 

[Member]

I respect your comments and that makes sense however unfortunately this is happening. I am also hearing schools telling parents not to bother with a PCR as a negative will not downgrade the test result. Whole things a bit of a mess and not helped by various people contradicting each other before the schools actually went back.

I agree but the government have been trying to clarify this after getting the messaging wrong. People can and should end their isolation if they get a negative PCR. My wife works in COVID testing at a college and there's updated guidance going around everywhere.

I also don't agree with testing millions of asymptomatic young people. The datas based on hospitalisations and deaths and the chances of school children entering those categories is miniscule.

They're not being tested specifically due to the risk to children of COVID-19, you're correct that they are typically of the lowest risk. They're being tested to stop transmission chains from school to home, and from home to school. In particular, this is to stop transmission of new variants which require close monitoring and avoid whole schools needing to shut down.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Can anyone answer please the accuracy of the body temp checks and how that relates to unwell/covid?
Should not a high temp preclude school anyway? do non symptom persons have high temperature?

The costs of the test trace need review for corruption?
The cost of PPE need review for corruption?

Not sure this is really an answer to any of your questions but:-

I can tell you that the cost of a PCR test done privately here in Spain is from 99 euros (cheapest),up to 130/140 euros.I've heard similar figures in pounds for the UK.There's no question that LFD tests are much cheaper,presumably that's why they're available free in schools in the UK atm.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Benefits of Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine outweigh any risk, says EMA

European agency seeks to allay blood clot fears as Germany, France and Italy temporarily suspend use

www.theguardian.com

On the day when 4 major EU countries (including Spain) have paused the use of the Oxford AZ vacine for a fortnight I thought the EMA's reaction made sense.

 

[Tinks]

Can anyone answer please the accuracy of the body temp checks and how that relates to unwell/covid?
Should not a high temp preclude school anyway? do non symptom persons have high temperature?

The costs of the test trace need review for corruption?
The cost of PPE need review for corruption?

The body temp observation is only a guide as one of the first symptoms to display in COVID is a high temperature.
Most places now will take your temperature but they wont know what to do with the results.
for me it is only one of several observations
funnily enough most of the thermometers used where you hold to your head are very unreliable and in several cases where I have visited I have had my temperature recorded on a few occasion as 30 and in one case at 26 which I explained to the person taking it I hoped not as with a temperature that low I should be in the morgue - they did not have a clue

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The body temp observation is only a guide as one of the first symptoms to display in COVID is a high temperature.
Most places now will take your temperature but they wont know what to do with the results.
for me it is only one of several observations
funnily enough most of the thermometers used where you hold to your head are very unreliable and in several cases where I have visited I have had my temperature recorded on a few occasion as 30 and in one case at 26 which I explained to the person taking it I hoped not as with a temperature that low I should be in the morgue - they did not have a clue

Had my temperature taken by a doctor in Avingon using one of these in August -IIRC it was just over 30--which I understand to be "normal".Typically my wife thought I might have covid,when I was convinced I just had a bit of sunstroke (and an overnight temperature which cleared up the next day) from hanging around the pool too long in the sun.Brits on holiday!

 

[Holy Joe]

Do you have a source? I can only see articles from yesterday saying 3 deaths, 33 positive cases. Also a police investigation has been started, seems like there is probably more to this story.

The Devon care home, Deaths now up to 5, with 11 more in hospital. Police investigation continuing. Care home has/had 55 residents

 

[londonblue]

What one did you have?.

Astra Zeneca.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Some new moves from the yummy mummy entitled parents of SHSB pupils: sit around in their chelsea tractors and german autos with engines running, drinking their costas, on their mobiles while they wait for little Josh, Charlie and Jake to have the pre school covid test. This morning a pair of civil enforcement officers were advising them of the meaning of yellow lines, bus stop, and parking across driveways etc.

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

Astra Zeneca.

I had that one last Weds. Went to bed that night, couldn't even find where i'd been injected!. Woke up Thurs morning, it was a little tender, & i had a dull slight headache. But after a brisk 35 min walk that vanished.
You feeling ok today?.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

A good friend of ours was due to get her AZ vaccination yesterday.Not suprisingly it was cancelled.Ironically if she'd booked for an am slot the jab would have gone ahead.Hardly a very convincing way to roll out a mass vaccination program.FWIW,I happen to think that it's much easier to pause the rollout of a vaccine when stocks are in short supply (as they're said to be here and in France) rather than when they're not.

 

[blueblueblue]

A good friend of ours was due to get her AZ vaccination yesterday.Not suprisingly it was cancelled.Iroonically if she'd booked for an am slot the jab would have gone ahead.Hardly a very convincing way to roll out a mass vaccination program.FWIW,I happen to think that it's much easier to pause the rollout of a vaccine when stocks are in short supply (as they're said to be here and in France) rather than when they're not.

I can't help but think theres more to this with the EU. It all sounds fishy to me. From what i've read, we've not had any proof of any blood clots here in the UK. It all seems very strange.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I can't help but think theres more to this with the EU. It all sounds fishy to me. From what i've read, we've not had any proof of any blood clots here in the UK. It all seems very strange.

Personally, I'm very reluctant to buy the "it's all the EU's fault" (see Daily Fail headline this am) especially when a number of countries pausing the AZ vaccine are outside the EU.There would appear to be some evidence that the number of people who develop blood clots after taking the AZ vacciine is a little higher (but that's also true of those taking the Pizher vaccine, apparently.In any case I'm convinced (following the EMA and WHO recommendations) that the benefits of taking the vaccine far ouweigh any possible disadvantages.

 

[blueblueblue]

Personally, I'm very reluctant to buy the "it's all the EU's fault" (see Daily Fail headline this am) especially when a number of countries pausing the AZ vaccine are outside the EU.There would appear to be some evidence that the number of people who develop blood clots after taking the AZ vacciine is a little higher (but that's also true of those taking the Pizher vaccine, apparently.In any case I'm convinced (following the EMA and WHO recommendations) that the benefits of taking the vaccine far ouweigh any possible disadvantages.

I understand Italy and some other countries have gone into a full lockdown again with hospitals getting full up. What ever the reasons, the UE are playing a dangerous game with this suspention which could take weeks for them to come to the conclusion that's it's safe and in the mean time many more people are dying from Covid.

As you said, the EMA and WHO have said it's as safe as any other medication or jab (nothing is 100% safe)..

This will put the EU back months with the vaccine program. The UK will be more or less open normal this Spring, whereas the rest of Europe could see many more months of lockdown restrictions.

 

[Chrisb]

I had that one last Weds. Went to bed that night, couldn't even find where i'd been injected!. Woke up Thurs morning, it was a little tender, & i had a dull slight headache. But after a brisk 35 min walk that vanished.
You feeling ok today?.

Had mine yesterday at Mill Hall and much the same as you, slightly sore arm but otherwise fine.

 

[londonblue]

I had that one last Weds. Went to bed that night, couldn't even find where i'd been injected!. Woke up Thurs morning, it was a little tender, & i had a dull slight headache. But after a brisk 35 min walk that vanished.
You feeling ok today?.

Yeah, fine today, other than a little bit of a sore arm.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I think it's highly likely that more women die of blood clots arising from the contraceptive pill each year than people have from blood clots "caused" by the AZ vaccination. Just posturing from the EU.