Coronavirus (Non-Politics)

[Rayleigh boy]

[

Thanks Spiffy. It’s really quite simple so I’ll say it again. We banned politics because posters were not able to do it sensibly and respectfully to a point where it was completely ruining the ShrimperZone experience.

As for quieting dissent, I really couldn’t give a monkeys whether it’s pro-government or anti-government. I have enough PMs from both right wing and left wing posters bemoaning how unfair it all is that we’re favouring “the other side” to make me think we’ve got the balance about right.

I totally agree ..

 

[united we stand]

How unlucky can you be/ unintended consequences
My daughter is working in the royal orthopaedic hospital.
An old lady was brought in with a broken ankle.
Like thousands She had been self insulating and some one was doing her shopping and leaving it outside the front door for her.

She fell over trying to pick up the shopping.
She is now in hospital with a broken ankle and has caught coronavirus in hospital.
Her prognosis is not good
Very sad

 

[RHB]

How unlucky can you be/ unintended consequences
My daughter is working in the royal orthopaedic hospital.
An old lady was brought in with a broken ankle.
Like thousands She had been self insulating and some one was doing her shopping and leaving it outside the front door for her.

She fell over trying to pick up the shopping.
She is now in hospital with a broken ankle and has caught coronavirus in hospital.
Her prognosis is not good
Very sad

That is so, so tragic. I do hope she pulls through. This virus is a hateful, spiteful bugger and no mistake.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Football League hopes fading over finishing season amid coronavirus

The possibility of the EFL being unable to complete the season is a real concern after meetings raised the stark challenges before any resumption of games

www.theguardian.com

Not so good for the EFL,apparently.

 

[OldBlueLady]

An awful lot of complaints on Twitter about deaths of loved ones being put down to Covid 19, when the victims have been in end of life or palliative care because of existing conditions - surely contributing to what you would then assume to be over inflated figures?

Similarly read about someone whose relative had a respiratory disease for which they were being treated and subsequently died and having Covid 19 put on the death certificate despite them testing negative as the instructions were for anything relating to respiratory disease being listed as such.

Seems all wrong to me, these people don't deserve to be just another statistic in this awful pandemic.

 

[Ricey]

I’m very worried after they’ve announced that we are past the peak and on the downslope. I feel people (the idiots of our nation, which there are many) will see this as a reason to ignore the guidelines and restrictions. Thankfully the weather isn’t great at the moment.

Lots of fast food chains talking about reopening next week too. The one that surprised me the most was Greggs, surely a chain like that cannot open under the current restrictions.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I agree @Ricey, people are going to act like it's all over.

 

[Ricey]

I agree @Ricey, people are going to act like it's all over.

They’re already starting to act like that. I’ve also noticed that B&Q have reopened all of their stores now and have seen some videos of the crazy queues they’ve had outside of them.

I’ve just seen Michael O’Leary (Ryanair CEO) on BBC News. They’ve decided to make 3000 redundancies, 15% of their staff mainly cabin crew and pilots. He was talking about reductions in flights from larger hubs and also the possible closure of smaller regional airport hubs. He didn’t say any names but I can imagine Southend May suffer from a reduction in flights.

They also had the CEO of Heathrow on who said the most sensible thing I’ve heard from my industry. Social distancing on public transport just isn’t possible and doesn’t work!

 

[GBJ]

I’m very worried after they’ve announced that we are past the peak and on the downslope. I feel people (the idiots of our nation, which there are many) will see this as a reason to ignore the guidelines and restrictions. Thankfully the weather isn’t great at the moment.

Interesting that you mention the weather. The three-week lockdown extension was set to end next Thursday I believe. From next Wednesday, and moving into the weekend, the weather is meant to revert to being pretty good again.

You ain’t gotta be Mystic Meg to see what’s going to happen there.

 

[Ricey]

Interesting that you mention the weather. The three-week lockdown extension was set to end next Thursday I believe. From next Wednesday, and moving into the weekend, the weather is meant to revert to being pretty good again.

You ain’t gotta be Mystic Meg to see what’s going to happen there.

Well hopefully the week or so of ****e weather will have kept the idiots at home and prevent a bit of spreading. Unfortunately with different companies opening their doors daily it attracts a new breed of idiot out.

 

[Member]

An awful lot of complaints on Twitter about deaths of loved ones being put down to Covid 19, when the victims have been in end of life or palliative care because of existing conditions - surely contributing to what you would then assume to be over inflated figures?

Similarly read about someone whose relative had a respiratory disease for which they were being treated and subsequently died and having Covid 19 put on the death certificate despite them testing negative as the instructions were for anything relating to respiratory disease being listed as such.

Seems all wrong to me, these people don't deserve to be just another statistic in this awful pandemic.

Several conditions can be (and often will be) on the MCCD (medical certificate of cause of death) that is completed at each death by a doctor.

The form requires the doctor to report health conditions contributing to death, or contributing to a condition that caused the death. The second is important because these are typically the diagnosed conditions that a person may have that lead to the acute illness (pneumonia, sepsis, organ failure etc) that results in death.

people don’t die from the COVID infection Itself, just like they don’t die from a cancer itself, they die from the damage these do to vital organs and that in turn leads to death. People with COVID can develop interstitial pneumonia which is a condition that often results in death due to breathing failure and organ damage from lack of oxygen. Even if patients are on EOL care for other conditions then COVID can still be contributory and should be noted on the MCCD.
I suggest doctors know a great deal more than Twitter commentators about this.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Long weekend as well next weekend with Friday the 75th anniversary of VE day.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Several conditions can be (and often will be) on the MCCD (medical certificate of cause of death) that is completed at each death by a doctor.

The form requires the doctor to report health conditions contributing to death, or contributing to a condition that caused the death. The second is important because these are typically the diagnosed conditions that a person may have that lead to the acute illness (pneumonia, sepsis, organ failure etc) that results in death.

people don’t die from the COVID infection Itself, just like they don’t die from a cancer itself, they die from the damage these do to vital organs and that in turn leads to death. People with COVID can develop interstitial pneumonia which is a condition that often results in death due to breathing failure and organ damage from lack of oxygen. Even if patients are on EOL care for other conditions then COVID can still be contributory and should be noted on the MCCD.
I suggest doctors know a great deal more than Twitter commentators about this.

You're missing my point, their bereaved relatives know that they were dying of, for instance, pancreatic cancer, but they seem to be having Covid put down as the MAIN reason on the death certificates. As I mentioned one person had even tested negative but it was STILL put down.

As you are quite well aware, relatives will often know an awful lot about the relevant disease so it's not just as if it's some random Twitter user passing comment, but people who are actually involved.

 

[Chrisb]

They’re already starting to act like that. I’ve also noticed that B&Q have reopened all of their stores now and have seen some videos of the crazy queues they’ve had outside of them.

I’ve just seen Michael O’Leary (Ryanair CEO) on BBC News. They’ve decided to make 3000 redundancies, 15% of their staff mainly cabin crew and pilots. He was talking about reductions in flights from larger hubs and also the possible closure of smaller regional airport hubs. He didn’t say any names but I can imagine Southend May suffer from a reduction in flights.

They also had the CEO of Heathrow on who said the most sensible thing I’ve heard from my industry. Social distancing on public transport just isn’t possible and doesn’t work!

Yes, Homebase reopening stores too and some local garden centres.

 

[Member]

You're missing my point, their bereaved relatives know that they were dying of, for instance, pancreatic cancer, but they seem to be having Covid put down as the MAIN reason on the death certificates. As I mentioned one person had even tested negative but it was STILL put down.

As you are quite well aware, relatives will often know an awful lot about the relevant disease so it's not just as if it's some random Twitter user passing comment, but people who are actually involved.

I'm not missing your point. As I explained, nowhere on the MCCD form does it ask for the 'main' reason. When the form is completed the doctor states the immediate direct cause of death and then works back from that in terms of a sequence of events or conditions to the start of the fatal sequence. But the form also asks for disease/conditions/injuries etc that have contributed to the death. So COVID could be in the sequence that led to death, or as a contributory factor.

Of course, the family will know about their loved one's health situation and condition, but that's not the point. You said that stats are being overinflated because COVID is being mentioned on the MCCD but may not have been the 'main reason' for death. If a doctor states COVID on the MCCD then they have a clinical reason to do so. A doctor only has to suspect its contribution, and a doctor doesn't have to completely resolve which condition (from more than one) led to death. Often that's impossible, even post mortem.

What we do know from the statistics is that the total number of deaths being reported is way above those being reported as being COVID-related. That will be a combination of underdiagnosing and reporting of COVID on death certificates, and also the indirect effect of government and NHS policy that has had consequences on the diagnosis and care of other conditions - e.g. patients not accessing care for health issues, or patients having care stopped. Plus all the impact in the social care system as well.

By the way, a doctor can very reasonably suspect the involvement of COVID even if a COVID test comes back as negative. None of the diagnostic tests are perfect - some people test negative when they have it - a doctor uses the test as just one piece of information to confirm a diagnosis and treat appropriately.

 

[borientater]

Surely if someone test negative for Covid then the death certificate should not have covid on it , but should have whatever they are in hospital for in the first place ? Otherwise you’re just guessing/assuming

 

[Member]

Surely if someone test negative for Covid then the death certificate should not have covid on it , but should have whatever they are in hospital for in the first place ? Otherwise you’re just guessing/assuming

If a patient presents with a fever, breathing difficulties, dry cough, low oxygen sats, and then progresses to respiratory failure, elevated inflammatory markers, lymphopenia, and x-ray or CT show atypical pneumonia, the condition worsens after standard treatment, and influenza is ruled out... then it's perfectly clinically reasonable to suspect COVID even if the test comes back as negative.

Current COVID tests have a sensitivity of around 90%, meaning that 10% of people who do have COVID have a test that comes back negative. Therefore because the test isn't perfect other clinical indicators are used to suspect or confirm the condition. This is normal clinical practice.

 

[borientater]

If a patient presents with a fever, breathing difficulties, dry cough, low oxygen sats, and then progresses to respiratory failure, elevated inflammatory markers, lymphopenia, and x-ray or CT show atypical pneumonia, the condition worsens after standard treatment, and influenza is ruled out... then it's perfectly clinically reasonable to suspect COVID even if the test comes back as negative.

Current COVID tests have a sensitivity of around 90%, meaning that 10% of people who do have COVID have a test that comes back negative. Therefore because the test isn't perfect other clinical indicators are used to suspect or confirm the condition. This is normal clinical practice.

Why rule out influenza ? I’m not a medical person so I’m genuinely interested.

 

[Member]

Why rule out influenza ? I’m not a medical person so I’m genuinely interested.

influenza is a common and serious condition that has some symptoms (not all) that overlap with COVID, so to treat either influenza or COVID effectively you want to rule the other out. In the early stages of COVID before testing was scaled up, the real challenge was identifying the COVID cases from the general background of people presenting at hospital with flu that's led to pneumonia.

 

[Member]

It's not the season? We have a regular vaccine for flu. Just a guess, like you I'm not medical.

even with a vaccine lots of people contract and die of flu all year around.

People who suggest COVID is no worse than flu (I think you did at one point!) need to remember that we have a good vaccine available for flu and even then it still results in many deaths. The issue with COVID is that it appears to be more transmittable, and more deadly, and we don't have a vaccine yet to dampen it.