Brexit negotiations thread

[rigsby]

You obviously haven't watched the viewsnight clip I linked to in post 1275 on this thread.

The Brexit generation is dying out.

I predict that sometime in the future ie in 20/40 years time (perhaps less), there will indeed be another referendum.Only this time on whether the UK should rejoin the EU or not.

The EU wont exist. We may well be in some sort of Northern European trading alliance as countries like Holland are sure to follow us out once the people see how we were able to ditch all of the EU's problems.

Not sure how the parasitic Southern European countries will get on once they have to stand on there own two feet. Even more ethnic minority prostitutes working every roundabout in Spain ?

Like so many Remoaners you believed your own hype last time. 25% didn't vote, often because they weren't sure. Most of the undecided have seen through project fear and would vote out. As for pinning your hopes on a few extra snowflakes getting out of bed next time.....Far more under 30's have realised their future needs to be in their hands and will vote out.

 

[Benfleet A1]

The EU wont exist. We may well be in some sort of Northern European trading alliance as countries like Holland are sure to follow us out once the people see how we were able to ditch all of the EU's problems.

Not sure how the parasitic Southern European countries will get on once they have to stand on there own two feet. Even more ethnic minority prostitutes working every roundabout in Spain ?

Like so many Remoaners you believed your own hype last time. 25% didn't vote, often because they weren't sure. Most of the undecided have seen through project fear and would vote out. As for pinning your hopes on a few extra snowflakes getting out of bed next time.....Far more under 30's have realised their future needs to be in their hands and will vote out.

Holland wont bail out in a month of sundays. My money is on Austria but there is rising disquite in Poland so who knows.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Holland wont bail out in a month of sundays. My money is on Austria but there is rising disquite in Poland so who knows.

We're lucky to have so many experts in international relations on SZ.:winking:

 

[rigsby]

Holland wont bail out in a month of sundays. My money is on Austria but there is rising disquite in Poland so who knows.

Its all over the EU. Even Germany have started sending illegal immigrants back and those Balkan countries won't put up with that.

It will be interesting to see what institutionally racist Spain do next year as I'm told that will be the new favoured route by the people trafficking gangs. They wont know whether to send their riot police North to beat the Catalonians or South to beat Carthaginians

 

[Lord Football]

Of course, Article 50 allows any MS to leave the EU. So far only one has ever triggered it.

The Dutch might have followed suit. But they rejected their anti EU candidate, and now worrying how the current shipping arrangments between Rotterdam and Felixstowe will work without costing them (and us) a pile of cash in iumplementing a new customs regime. Seeing the cost of this, they know the cost of having to do that for their land borders would completely outweigh any advantage they have. Add they will have the same land boundary issues we have with the Irish, except on a large scale with three different nations (check Baarle Hertog and Baarle Nassau on a map and wonder how on earth that could work). They look at Brexit with agog, amazement and incredulance.

Poland. Wont leave of its own accord, but is currently likely to break a whole set of EU principles and may find itself removed. Though I am not sure legally how that could be done.

Greece. Should have left when it had the chance. Out of all the MS this is the one that shouldn't be. Economically weak at the point of arrival, almost voluntary tax regime, and pretty much still because the alternative is actually worse.

Politically, the Commission is lead by us and the Germans, and everyone understands that if the Brits and Germans agree on something then it is likely to be a good idea. There may be some political manouevering, involving Italy, Spain and France who could seek to become the major political bloc. I'd expect the Germans to shore up their position, and you may find somewhere like Sweden become a bit of a force.

Will anyone else leave the EU by choice? I very much doubt it. Why would they?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

As the vote leave will only increase, would you accept another defeat?.....Or would you demand a 3rd referendum?

the first was based on Cameron's lies verses Johnson's lies - I expect Farage is aware of that - so a referendum based on information that is now available (and excluding information since proven to be wrong) makes sense. The way many people look at it, Farage now included in that, is that the first version was inconclusive due to so much misinformation. I think when we know what the deal is it makes more sense to say 'this is what you are actually voting for' - and that may or may not be attractive but it would be judged on its real merits.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The EU wont exist. We may well be in some sort of Northern European trading alliance as countries like Holland are sure to follow us out once the people see how we were able to ditch all of the EU's problems.

Not sure how the parasitic Southern European countries will get on once they have to stand on there own two feet. Even more ethnic minority prostitutes working every roundabout in Spain ?

Like so many Remoaners you believed your own hype last time. 25% didn't vote, often because they weren't sure. Most of the undecided have seen through project fear and would vote out. As for pinning your hopes on a few extra snowflakes getting out of bed next time.....Far more under 30's have realised their future needs to be in their hands and will vote out.

I don't know why you think calling certain nations 'parasitic' is acceptable terminology.

 

[rigsby]

I don't know why you think calling certain nations 'parasitic' is acceptable terminology.

Oh well I'm more than comfortable with the term. We use it a lot within my cultural background.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Oh well I'm more than comfortable with the term. We use it a lot within my cultural background.

I'm not sure what kind of cultural upbringing would encourage you to refer to whole countries as parasites - I suspect its more of an individual's perspective than a collective consciousness.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Still want to be a part of this great European vision?

A very interesting article for those that were in any doubt as to the EU real goals and intentions concerning the idea of an unelected EU Superstate run by Germany & France.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42725351

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Still want to be a part of this great European vision?

A very interesting article for those that were in any doubt as to the EU real goals and intentions concerning the idea of an unelected EU Superstate run by Germany & France.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42725351

I think you'll find that Macron and Mutti were in fact elected.:smiles:

 

[Bielzibubz]

I think you'll find that Macron and Mutti were in fact elected.:smiles:

Oh dear, you really do misinterpret what is written to suit don't you. Do you do it on purpose or is it something you do completely by mistake?

I didn't say they weren't elected by the people of their respective countries. What I said was an 'unelected EU Superstate' which is what it would. It's unelected now and it would be in the future if zee Krauts and Frogs get their way, albeit on a much larger and much more closely integrated basis.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Oh dear, you really do misinterpret what is written to suit don't you. Do you do it on purpose or is it something you do completely by mistake?

I didn't say they weren't elected by the people of their respective countries. What I said was an 'unelected EU Superstate' which is what it would. It's unelected now and it would be in the future if zee Krauts and Frogs get their way, albeit on a much larger and much more closely integrated basis.

My wife is one of those "frogs" who happens to think the EU will be better off without the UK.She has always believed that most Brits never wanted to be a part of Europe in the first place.

 

[rigsby]

My wife is one of those "frogs" who happens to think the EU will be better off without the UK.She has always believed that most Brits never wanted to be a part of Europe in the first place.

Don't worry there are plenty of us who think the UK will be better off without the EU.

By the way it was the French who went out of their way to block us from entering for years in the first place. Still what do you expect from a country that charges a 'landing tax' for every Brit who arrives by ferry. The reason we have to pay for any damage we did to the French ports during WW2.

 

[Bielzibubz]

My wife is one of those "frogs" who happens to think the EU will be better off without the UK.She has always believed that most Brits never wanted to be a part of Europe in the first place.

She may well be right. Certainly not financially thoigh. The shortfall in revenue into the EU coffers after we leave will have to be found from somewhere. That somewhere will undoubtedly be from counties like France and Germany, but that's and argument for a later day.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Don't worry there are plenty of us who think the UK will be better off without the EU.

By the way it was the French who went out of their way to block us from entering for years in the first place. Still what do you expect from a country that charges a 'landing tax' for every Brit who arrives by ferry. The reason we have to pay for any damage we did to the French ports during WW2.

My own view,FWIW,is that the vast barrage of anti-EU publicity in the UK media, going back for at least the last 20 years or so (and also the incompetence of the remain campaign ,which took continued membership as a given), made it almost impossible for the pro-EU argument to get a proper or fair hearing during the referendum campaign.

Thanks for the history lesson but as a politics graduate, I'm well aware of the background to the UK's membership of the EU.

 

[londonblue]

My own view,FWIW,is that the vast barrage of anti-EU publicity in the UK media, going back for at least the last 20 years or so (and also the incompetence of the remain campaign ,which took continued membership as a given), made it almost impossible for the pro-EU argument to get a proper or fair hearing during the referendum campaign.

Thanks for the history lesson but as a politics graduate, I'm well aware of the background to the UK's membership of the EU.

I think you're also ignoring the arrogance of the EU in the past for not actually defending itself, and allowing negative publicity to be left unchallenged. If the EU had actually promoted itself over the years, and pointed out the positive effect it was having then the Remain campaign wouldn't be starting from such a poor position.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

I think you're also ignoring the arrogance of the EU in the past for not actually defending itself, and allowing negative publicity to be left unchallenged. If the EU had actually promoted itself over the years, and pointed out the positive effect it was having then the Remain campaign wouldn't be starting from such a poor position.

A very good and fair point. In my travels through Europe I have seen very many signs evidencing work paid for by the EU; however I am struggling to recall ever seeing one of those "advertising hoardings" in the UK - maybe I have seen a few in Scotland? is this because work hasn't been financed/done in the UK or just no signage?
The EU does also have it's own out of empire foriegn aid fund which finances projects across non EU Europe (such as Albania and Georgia) but also in Asia Minor and North Africa; and of course French Caribbean and Pacific colonies (but not in UK territories such as Falklands).

 

[londonblue]

A very good and fair point. In my travels through Europe I have seen very many signs evidencing work paid for by the EU; however I am struggling to recall ever seeing one of those "advertising hoardings" in the UK - maybe I have seen a few in Scotland? is this because work hasn't been financed/done in the UK or just no signage?
The EU does also have it's own out of empire foriegn aid fund which finances projects across non EU Europe (such as Albania and Georgia) but also in Asia Minor and North Africa; and of course French Caribbean and Pacific colonies (but not in UK territories such as Falklands).

I don't have any figures or details in front of me, but AFAIA there are plenty of EU funded projects in the UK that don't seem to have been celebrated in the way they should have been. But it's not just that. It's also allowing (for example) lies around vegetable shapes and passport colours etc. to go unchallenged.

I also think successive governments are to blame for actually blaming the EU for things that weren't really its fault. I seem to remember instances (e.g. passport colours) where governments have said that they have to do things because the EU says so. That way they can be seen to be blameless.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

A very good and fair point. In my travels through Europe I have seen very many signs evidencing work paid for by the EU; however I am struggling to recall ever seeing one of those "advertising hoardings" in the UK - maybe I have seen a few in Scotland? is this because work hasn't been financed/done in the UK or just no signage?
The EU does also have it's own out of empire foriegn aid fund which finances projects across non EU Europe (such as Albania and Georgia) but also in Asia Minor and North Africa; and of course French Caribbean and Pacific colonies (but not in UK territories such as Falklands).

lots in Cornwall, Wales, etc - regeneration work IIRC