Brexit negotiations thread

[Bielzibubz]

Long overdue and totally expected. In fact I'm surprised he didn't walk earlier. No great loss. As you were. Brexit will happen no matter how hard he stamps his feet like a little child.

Of course, this IDS quote pretty much sums the guy up. "It's a bit rich for him to pontificate on what he calls populism, but what most would refer to as democracy, when he himself has never been elected by a public vote. He has instead relied on preferment from others.

And in my opinion he's not right. I assume that's what yours was. An opinion, nothing more.

Long term, Brexit 'may' and I truly hope and believe it will be, a great success for the UK. In which case there will be no mission for the next generation to worry about.

Oh, and the man said this in a magazine article. "leaving the EU is the same as appeasing Hitler, Nazism and genocide" ... Anyone who seriously thinks like that doesn't deserve a place in Government let alone the Lords.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Lord Adonis also said Brexit is a nationalist spasm and Britain could have abided by the result of the 2016 referendum and left the EU “without rupturing our essential European trade and political relations”. Instead, the prime minister had “become the voice of Ukip and the extreme nationalist rightwing” of her party.

I make him rights on both counts.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-theresa-may-infrastructure-tsar-over-brexit

 

[Bielzibubz]

Lord Adonis also said Brexit is a nationalist spasm and Britain could have abided by the result of the 2016 referendum and left the EU “without rupturing our essential European trade and political relations”. Instead, the prime minister had “become the voice of Ukip and the extreme nationalist rightwing” of her party.

I make him rights on both counts.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-theresa-may-infrastructure-tsar-over-brexit

Yup, figured as much. Nothing if not predictable. Couldn't you have just typed that without the link?

Do you also make him right on his assertion that the leave vote is the same as appeasing Hitler, Nazism and genocide? Just so where clear where we stand.

And don't be such a big ole jessie. EU trade and political relations are not ruptured. We're still trading. The FTSE is at an all time high. Exports to the EU are at record levels. I get that you'd like them to be ruptured just so you could stand on that big socialist soap box of yours and scream at all us right wing nationalistic racists that voted for Brexit about how right you were all along but face it comrade, since June of 2016 none of the immediate or indeed the short term dire consequences predicted by yourself and many other left wing protagonists have come to pass. Nor will they. I also get that that salient point really irks you from afar but chin up fella, the Sun will still rise tomorrow :winking:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Yup, figured as much. Nothing if not predictable. Couldn't you have just typed that without the link?

Do you also make him right on his assertion that the leave vote is the same as appeasing Hitler, Nazism and genocide? Just so where clear where we stand.

And don't be such a big ole jessie. EU trade and political relations are not ruptured. We're still trading. The FTSE is at an all time high. Exports to the EU are at record levels. I get that you'd like them to be ruptured just so you could stand on that big socialist soap box of yours and scream at all us right wing nationalistic racists that voted for Brexit about how right you were all along but face it comrade, since June of 2016 none of the immediate or indeed the short term dire consequences predicted by yourself and many other left wing protagonists have come to pass. Nor will they. I also get that that salient point really irks you from afar but chin up fella, the Sun will still rise tomorrow :winking:

The salient point is that the UK hasn't actually left the EU yet.When it does, we can actually start to talk about the "short term dire consequences" which,as you say,have been widely predicted,by myself and others.

Meanwhile, we can certainly discuss the reasons for the effective 15% devaluation in the pound since Brexit,which have made my visits back to the UK much cheaper and the visit of UK based Brits to the Eurozone,correspondingly more expensive.Needless to say, this has also started to push up the price of imports, which has led to a significant increase in prices in the UK this year, while real wages stubbornly refuse to rise.

 

[Medway Blue]

Lord Adonis also said Brexit is a nationalist spasm and Britain could have abided by the result of the 2016 referendum and left the EU “without rupturing our essential European trade and political relations”. Instead, the prime minister had “become the voice of Ukip and the extreme nationalist rightwing” of her party.

I make him rights on both counts.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-theresa-may-infrastructure-tsar-over-brexit

So you "make him right" on his point that we can leave the EU but also remain inside the Single Market and Customs Union? Deary me....

 

[Medway Blue]

Ok, I'll bite.

For the UK to be able to control it's own borders.

To be able to set immigration admission quotas if it so wished.

To be able to deport and withhold re-entry to those convicted of a criminal offence committed either here or overseas.

For UK law to have supremacy over and above EU law.

For the UK to be able to set out it's own Bill of Rights and not be mandated to abide by laws it didn't draft through the UK legislative process.

For the UK to be able to trade freely around the globe and pick the best markets that suit it's exported products and not be told by an unelected body who it can trade with and who it can't.

For the UK to be free from regulations and unjust laws that clearly and openly benefit another country to the detriment of the UK population and some of it's industries.

For the UK to eventually be able to re-invest whatever the sum it is currently paying for it's EU membership back into the UK economy where and when it deems necessary and fit to do so.

I could go on and on but I really don't have the time right now. Things to do and people to see n all that but I hope this goes some way to answering your question.

Lovely stuff

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So you "make him right" on his point that we can leave the EU but also remain inside the Single Market and Customs Union? Deary me....

Don't think Adonis has actually talked about remaining in the Customs Union. However: "Adonis has also been highly critical of his own party’s stance on Brexit, urging the shadow Brexit secretary Keir Starmer’s team to advocate remaining in the single market, and suggesting Labour would eventually end up backing a second referendum."

While I agree with him about "remaining in the single market",personally I don't really hold out any hope for a second referendum.

Still you reap what you sow.As you and quite a few other Brits will probably be finding out shortly.

 

[Lord Football]

So you "make him right" on his point that we can leave the EU but also remain inside the Single Market and Customs Union? Deary me....

It is entirely possible that an end result will see us remain within the at least the customs union. It might even be a legal necessity if we wish to continue with the notion of not having a border with Ireland. Internationally there will be pressure within the WTO for the UK to abide by Favoured Nation Status rules - and that means either having a border in Ireland or having a customs union. I can't see a third way that keeps everyone happy.

The real complication is that we are not just negotiating an exit deal with the EU.

There are a significant number of international conventions we need to join in our right (because we joined as part of the EU) and there are even more WTO rules we need to abide by. So, whilst we can agree (for example) quotas with the EU, there are heavy weights in the WTO who have already objected to this process. In actuality, remaining in the customs union resolves many of these issues.

 

[Gremlin]

Angela Rayner.

I've got a bit of time for her.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...oys-left-behind-negative-impact-focus-ethnic/

 

[MK Shrimper]

I've got a bit of time for her.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...oys-left-behind-negative-impact-focus-ethnic/

Yeah she talks sense.

Sometimes you have to invest in people to get the best out of them. To me, that is socialism. That is why I’m a Labour member rather than a Conservative.”

 

[Lord Football]

Can I just mention the idea of manning the border with volunteers to cope with the additional work which is currently doing the rounds?

With a wee bit more insight than is healthy in this regard, I only have one word to say. "REALLY!!!!"

 

[Benfleet A1]

Can I just mention the idea of manning the border with volunteers to cope with the additional work which is currently doing the rounds?

With a wee bit more insight than is healthy in this regard, I only have one word to say. "REALLY!!!!"

You never saw the original Dads Army film? Standing on the cliffs looking towards France, it worked didn't it.

 

[Lord Football]

You never saw the original Dads Army film? Standing on the cliffs looking towards France, it worked didn't it.

It's exactly the analogy being made on social media.


I'd be very surprised if anyone with any border experience would want to work there again, let alone on a voluntary basis. Again, that's an insight most people wont have.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/05/philip-hammond-customs-union-with-eu-after-brexit

Looks like Hammond's in favour of the Customs union.Good news.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-42574540/viewsnight-the-brexit-generation-is-dying-out

Viewsnight.The brexit generation is dying out.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...f-a-million-jobs-with-no-deal-says-sadiq-khan

A Brexit impact study shows that no deal could cost the UK half a million jobs.Wow.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

This morning Nigel Farage has backed a 2nd referendum on membership of the EU. Not on how we leave or other specifics but a re-run of the 2016 referendum.

I figured that was a journalistic twist on his words but just heard the clip from 'The Wright Stuff' where he says it.

 

[rigsby]

This morning Nigel Farage has backed a 2nd referendum on membership of the EU. Not on how we leave or other specifics but a re-run of the 2016 referendum.

I figured that was a journalistic twist on his words but just heard the clip from 'The Wright Stuff' where he says it.

As the vote leave will only increase, would you accept another defeat?.....Or would you demand a 3rd referendum?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

As the vote leave will only increase, would you accept another defeat?.....Or would you demand a 3rd referendum?

You obviously haven't watched the viewsnight clip I linked to in post 1275 on this thread.

The Brexit generation is dying out.

I predict that sometime in the future ie in 20/40 years time (perhaps less), there will indeed be another referendum.Only this time on whether the UK should rejoin the EU or not.

 

[Benfleet A1]

This morning Nigel Farage has backed a 2nd referendum on membership of the EU. Not on how we leave or other specifics but a re-run of the 2016 referendum.

I figured that was a journalistic twist on his words but just heard the clip from 'The Wright Stuff' where he says it.

He might have finally realised that he has done himself out of a job and has no future in politics without it. His radio show on LBC is toe curling at times so can't see that being his new career for long. Mind you, the Alex Salmond one is even worse. Maybe that's where bad polititians go to die.