Brexit negotiations thread

[Bielzibubz]

As much as I deplore TM ineptitude (or EU collusion, whichever your preference) the fact that JC and the Labour party see this whole sorry episode and just a means to get into No10 I find even more deplorable.

It's clear JC and his inner circle couldn't give a toss about the referendum result. He knows he wouldn't get a better deal from the EU. He knows EXACTLY how and why they work the way they do. All he seems to be interested in is getting into power at all costs. Where is his and Labours plan for Brexit? What are they putting on the table to tempt me and people like me. With the Tories and TM in turmoil I'd have thought they'd be all over this like a rash but all I see is opportunistic soundbites and political posturing.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You did support the attack and invasion of Iraq. I wont call it a war because Not only had Saddam never attacked Britain or the USA, the last place anyone could be a terrorist or even train terrorists was in Iraq under Saddam.

I support the concept of intervening in countries where the regime murders its own people (or other people) and I acknowledge that the West have a poor record of positive outcomes when doing that.
You are fully aware of my stance on that and it doesn't match your interpretation of it and it doesn't fit this thread.

The whole Brexit build up has lasted over two and a half years and is coming to a crescendo, why are you so eager to change the subject just as the subject gets interesting?

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Politicians of all sides have let the UK down enormously over the Leave period.
The Tories have been divided and in fighting, with no trust in each other or strength to follow up the talk with action. "leave means leave", "no deal is better than bad deal" etc.
Labour have put nothing WORKABLE or POSSIBLE forward and just sought personal gain from chaos despite having a party policy of Leave.
Lib Dems have been true to their colours but anti democracy and anti the result.
DUP - completely self orientated, as are the SNP, both just after what is good for themselves.
The media, especially the BBC have been trying to make the news more than reporting on it.
The EU have been petulant, bullying, disrespectful and showed their true shameless dinosaur nature with a desire to die a death of a thousand cuts rather than make meaningful changes.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

As much as I deplore TM ineptitude (or EU collusion, whichever your preference) the fact that JC and the Labour party see this whole sorry episode and just a means to get into No10 I find even more deplorable.

It's clear JC and his inner circle couldn't give a toss about the referendum result. He knows he wouldn't get a better deal from the EU. He knows EXACTLY how and why they work the way they do. All he seems to be interested in is getting into power at all costs. Where is his and Labours plan for Brexit? What are they putting on the table to tempt me and people like me. With the Tories and TM in turmoil I'd have thought they'd be all over this like a rash but all I see is opportunistic soundbites and political posturing.

What they are doing in not being naive. They reject a no deal exist as they see that as the worst option for the UK. They backed the government's right to negotiate a deal but most of us agree that the deal they have come up with is not fit for purpose.
So the focus is making sure these two options are rejected.
As I've said many times, as they backed the right of the government to negotiate a deal they can't move to phase 2 until that deal comes before Parliament. No one expected May to take this long but it is what it is.

Nothing to be gained from looking beyond the vote on May's deal. I'm sure plans are in place and though it's frustrating we will be told when the time is right. Get tomorrow out of the way (and possibly 3 more days as that seems to be what she has been allocated for plan B) then we can move on.

 

[rigsby]

I support the concept of intervening in countries where the regime murders its own people (or other people) and I acknowledge that the West have a poor record of positive outcomes when doing that.
You are fully aware of my stance on that and it doesn't match your interpretation of it and it doesn't fit this thread.

The whole Brexit build up has lasted over two and a half years and is coming to a crescendo, why are you so eager to change the subject just as the subject gets interesting?

I didn't want to change. You brought TR the EDL and so called right wing murder plots. I'm just giving you some balance......Like the attempted murder of a serving soldier.

By the way we used to have regime change back in the days of empire. Still we were much better at it back then and the world was far more safer in the 19th century. Turns out bombing women and children from 30,000 feet and then leaving a country in turmoil rarely achieves anything. It does of course make the military/industrial/bangsters even more money whilst raking up debt for the west and creating a bigger terror threat and a refugee crisis.

So the next time the CIA create some horror stories and convince a dictator to invade another country, will you still support regime change? Or have you learnt a valuable lesson in life?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I didn't want to change. You brought TR the EDL and so called right wing murder plots. I'm just giving you some balance......Like the attempted murder of a serving soldier.

By the way we used to have regime change back in the days of empire. Still we were much better at it back then and the world was far more safer in the 19th century. Turns out bombing women and children from 30,000 feet and then leaving a country in turmoil rarely achieves anything. It does of course make the military/industrial/bangsters even more money whilst raking up debt for the west and creating a bigger terror threat and a refugee crisis.

So the next time the CIA create some horror stories and convince a dictator to invade another country, will you still support regime change? Or have you learnt a valuable lesson in life?

What actually happened was other posters discussing the possibility of fighting breaking out if Brexit doesn't happen. Your input was:
'By the way its the left who like to smash things and need a riot shield in the face'
I pointed out that in recent years political street fighting has come from the far right.

That's all.

What are you hoping for tomorrow? Would you like May's deal to pass or fall?

 

[rigsby]

What actually happened was other posters discussing the possibility of fighting breaking out if Brexit doesn't happen. Your input was:
'By the way its the left who like to smash things and need a riot shield in the face'
I pointed out that in recent years political street fighting has come from the far right.

That's all.

What are you hoping for tomorrow? Would you like May's deal to pass or fall?

Nicely swerved. You should consider becoming a labour MP.

When the football lads alliance marched, including some of Southend's finest. They were peaceful it was of course the left who tried to stop them and cause trouble. I believe you often spend your weekends trying to stop legal and peaceful demonstrations. Claiming the fighting is due to the 'far right ' is utter tosh, even your mates know that.

As for the for the deal I don't care one bit. Haven't done from day one because I knew what would happen.

Now what about the Iraq war. Would you do the same again?

 

[rigsby]

Shifting ground as usual. Be nice if you just apologised for posting this scurrilous nonsense but I don't hold out much hope.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/serving-brit-soldier-attacked-15-13802646

Looks like someone owes an apology but I don't hold out much hope.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Nicely swerved. You should consider becoming a labour MP.

When the football lads alliance marched, including some of Southend's finest. They were peaceful it was of course the left who tried to stop them and cause trouble. I believe you often spend your weekends trying to stop legal and peaceful demonstrations. Claiming the fighting is due to the 'far right ' is utter tosh, even your mates know that.

As for the for the deal I don't care one bit. Haven't done from day one because I knew what would happen.

Now what about the Iraq war. Would you do the same again?

I didn't mention the FLA I said far right. Are FLA far right?

Iraq War. I recall requests to keep threads on track, I understand many people find it frustrating when they are not, so I've started an Iraq War thread.

We kind of had a similar outcome in mind. I decided very early on to vote Remain because I knew the Tories would **** up the process of leaving. You voted Leave but you also expected the Tories would **** up the process of leaving.

The difference is pretty much that you feel it's deliberate and planned and I think it's incompetence.

 

[rigsby]

I didn't mention the FLA I said far right. Are FLA far right?

Iraq War. I recall requests to keep threads on track, I understand many people find it frustrating when they are not, so I've started an Iraq War thread.

We kind of had a similar outcome in mind. I decided very early on to vote Remain because I knew the Tories would **** up the process of leaving. You voted Leave but you also expected the Tories would **** up the process of leaving.

The difference is pretty much that you feel it's deliberate and planned and I think it's incompetence.

I didn't think it would be just to do with the Tories. Its the people who fund them and who also fund Labour. The very elite you spend your life fighting are actually using you to support them.

They can even fool people into war by having control over a Labour PM. Probably started when Blair was allowed to plead guilty using his middle name for an offence in the early 80's

Good idea to have a different thread, Although I would suggest you change the name to 'Questions the left don't want to answer'. It will save a lot of time

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I didn't think it would be just to do with the Tories. Its the people who fund them and who also fund Labour. The very elite you spend your life fighting are actually using you to support them.

They can even fool people into war by having control over a Labour PM. Probably started when Blair was allowed to plead guilty using his middle name for an offence in the early 80's

Good idea to have a different thread, Although I would suggest you change the name to 'Questions the left don't want to answer'. It will save a lot of time

Feel free to ask the Mods to change the title of the thread.

The same people who fund the Tories also fund Labour? Who is that?

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

I was explaining.
Two posters were using the same name for two different things (because it is used for two different things) and from what had been written it was clear that there was a misunderstanding. If you read back over it I'm sure you'll see what I mean and that I was being helpful,

You weren’t being helpful and anyway my reply was to Barna not you. He’s more than capable to speak for himself.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You weren’t being helpful and anyway my reply was to Barna not you. He’s more than capable to speak for himself.

I was attempting to be helpful, if it wasn't of use to you that's just one of those things.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

MP Tulip Siddiq has delayed her son’s birth (by Caesarean) so that she can vote against May's deal.

That's dedication.

 

[Benfleet A1]

MP Tulip Siddiq has delayed her son’s birth (by Caesarean) so that she can vote against May's deal.

That's dedication.

That's bloody dangerous.

 

[Swiss Tony]

MP Tulip Siddiq has delayed her son’s birth (by Caesarean) so that she can vote against May's deal.

That's dedication.

Silly bitch risking a life,should be ashamed of herself, though I doubt it.

 

[blues exile]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/serving-brit-soldier-attacked-15-13802646

Looks like someone owes an apology but I don't hold out much hope.

The key sentence in the Mirror is the statement by West Yorkshire Police that there is no evidence he was targeted because of his military service. The rest of the report makes much of the highly questionable Police Hour website's view of the incident which is at best pure speculation or at worst designed to inflame racial tension. However I can see how all this plays into your overheated conspiracy theory about politically correct policing that allows Muslims to break the law with impunity simply because they are Muslims.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

That's bloody dangerous.

She has delayed by 2 days. I expect she was given options to start with so just moved to one of the other options.

There is a pairing system in Parliament where if an MP has a legitimate reason for being unable to vote another MP agrees no to vote to balance it out. Just before the Summer break when the Tories were also on the verge of collapse a LibDem MP who was heavily pregnant arranged a pair with a Tory MP who broke the arrangement and went on to vote.

Trust in that Parliamentary convention is now broken.

 

[Member]

That's bloody dangerous.

No it’s not.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Well 'mes enfants' today is the day....................or is it? In the end will it come down to numbers, i.e. the scale of her defeat? Estimations are from 50 to over 200 (Guess the size of the defeat?).............are the higher figures just bloated, in order to make out, when it's revealed she lost by under a hundred, she has in fact done quite well?
Hilary Benn's amendment has been withdrawn, so the ecale of the defeat will be clearly illustrated. IIUC there are two other amendments which will test the water for approaching the EU, following the vote, in order to obtain changes on the backstop.
I would put the majority at 73 against the deal. That may allow her to drag the whole sorry process on for a while longer, yet that may depend on the indications provided by the two earlier ammendments.
As one who is sympathetic to a people's vote (with some reservations), I wish Anna Soubry wouldn't carry on about the young who missed voting in the first referendum, being a reason for a second..................it's not! That argument is flawed and allows justified criticism from opponents, to complain that it's just remainers wanting to carry on referendums until the required result is achieved.
Oh! the really important news of the day is that we still haven't signed anyone!