Brexit negotiations thread

[Bielzibubz]

Conservative governments are not working in:
UK
probably some other places but I only have experience of one.

It's working a damn sight better than any other Socialist governments on the planet.

 

[Bielzibubz]

on BBC site now:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46748193

Exceptional levels of incompetence.

Agree 100%

The whole thing stinks of corruption and nepotism but just as with the whole drone over Gatwick story this will be quietly forgotten and buried when the media find something else to grab the headlines and your attention with. It's the way in which the vast majority of the population have been conditioned to just blindly accept what their spoon fed by a complicity media and politicians with nothing but personal greed and hubris as their stand out features.

It's a sad irony that with the advent of the Internet and open information the last four decades has seen a decline in main stream media investigative journalism and the general dumbing down of important issues and knowledge. There are one or two publications still around with no particular party political line to tow that do endeavour to get to the truth of what's going on behind the corridors of power but unfortunately the lazy and ordinary Joe public can't be arsed to either try and make sense of or understand it. It's far, far easier to just pick up The Sun, The Express, The Guardian or The Telegraph and just believe what's written and what fits their limited understanding of the world.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Socialism is all well and good in an ideal world where everybody buys into it, and those in power don't abuse it, but that is never going to happen. Socialism on top of Brexit would be a disaster for this country IMO. A socialist Britain outside of the EU would see foreign investment evaporate and our economic standing in the world tumble. I hate the assumption that capitalism can't have a social conscience. That IMO is what we need, a party that will make the right moves for the economy whilst protecting the most vulnerable.

 

[blues exile]

Socialism is all well and good in an ideal world where everybody buys into it, and those in power don't abuse it, but that is never going to happen. Socialism on top of Brexit would be a disaster for this country IMO. A socialist Britain outside of the EU would see foreign investment evaporate and our economic standing in the world tumble. I hate the assumption that capitalism can't have a social conscience. That IMO is what we need, a party that will make the right moves for the economy whilst protecting the most vulnerable.

Capitalism by definition cannot have a social conscience when its basic tenets are exploitation of the weak by the strong.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Capitalism by definition cannot have a social conscience when its basic tenets are exploitation of the weak by the strong.

I think both ends of the political spectrum have a very different definition of Capitalism. The other end of the spectrum would say those who work hard and implement a vision quite rightly get rewarded. As in most things I think the answer lays somewhere in the middle. I can't see why capitalism can't have a social conscience.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Are you suggesting vote LibDem then Ricky? I often do as it is a safe protest vote position here in Southend West.

 

[Benfleet A1]

In the Americas, I imagine 1492.

Time to take a little responsiblity then.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Most of Africa was 'ruled by the British' but it doesn't seem to have done much good for the locals.

Those ex UK countries have generally done much better than the ex Portugal, Belgium or French ones.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Are you suggesting vote LibDem then Ricky? I often do as it is a safe protest vote position here in Southend West.

I voted tactically for LibDems for a while due to where I lived but stopped after 2010 as it led to a Tory government rather than preventing one.

 

[blues exile]

Those ex UK countries have generally done much better than the ex Portugal, Belgium or French ones.

When you say 'done much better' how are you measuring this? According to the Human Development Index, a United Nations body which takes into account length of life, public health and standard of living Seychelles, Mauritius, Algeria and Tunisia are top. Among the worst are Tanzania, Nigeria and Uganda, all former British colonies.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Not QED. It doesn't work for all.

It has for me.That's why I'm writing this from the Parador de Tortosa.Nothing is too good for the (children of the) working class

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Oh dear. Seaborne Freight hasn't signed the contracts with Ostend and Ramsgate, the two ports they are to operate with. It was meant to be done by now. Seaborne say they have enough capital raised, the ports don't think so as Seaborne can't show any evidence. They still haven't shown any evidence of a single vessel they have bought or chartered. It's also alleged today that their T&Cs were copied from a takeaway business. Here were part of Seaborne's T&Cs before taken down.....
The 'placing an order' section of its terms and conditions stated that "it is the responsibility of the customer to ensure delivery address details are correct and detailed enough for the delivery driver to locate the address in adequate time.
"You must always provide a valid contact number and email when ordering online. Please provide additional delivery instructions in the relevant section on our checkout page. In the event that your address cannot be found, undelivered orders will be chargeable."
Lol.
And if it couldn't get any worse, Ben Sharp the Chief Executive of Seaborne Freight ran up debts of more than $500,000 when his former shipping business went bust and knocked customers. Not the sort you would want to do business with. Chris Grayling's due diligence claims about this firm must be a porkie or a shambles.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I wonder who'll be first to post a link to today's latest Brexit non story?

My monies on.....................

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Oh dear. Seaborne Freight hasn't signed the contracts with Ostend and Ramsgate, the two ports they are to operate with. It was meant to be done by now. Seaborne say they have enough capital raised, the ports don't think so as Seaborne can't show any evidence. They still haven't shown any evidence of a single vessel they have bought or chartered. It's also alleged today that their T&Cs were copied from a takeaway business. Here were part of Seaborne's T&Cs before taken down.....
The 'placing an order' section of its terms and conditions stated that "it is the responsibility of the customer to ensure delivery address details are correct and detailed enough for the delivery driver to locate the address in adequate time.
"You must always provide a valid contact number and email when ordering online. Please provide additional delivery instructions in the relevant section on our checkout page. In the event that your address cannot be found, undelivered orders will be chargeable."
Lol.
And if it couldn't get any worse, Ben Sharp the Chief Executive of Seaborne Freight ran up debts of more than $500,000 when his former shipping business went bust and knocked customers. Not the sort you would want to do business with. Chris Grayling's due diligence claims about this firm must be a porkie or a shambles.

the very least that should happen is that Grayling is out of a job over this, the very least.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Are you suggesting vote LibDem then Ricky? I often do as it is a safe protest vote position here in Southend West.

I have no political allegence and consider myself a floating voter. Lib dems are certainly the party that aligns with my values the most at the moment and I've been a long time admirer of vince cable's views on what is best for the economy. If the election was tomorrow, I'd vote lib dem

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I have no political allegence and consider myself a floating voter. Lib dems are certainly the party that aligns with my values the most at the moment and I've been a long time admirer of vince cable's views on what is best for the economy. If the election was tomorrow, I'd vote lib dem

they did of course back crippling austerity measures, tripling of tuition fees that also carry a 6% interest rate that has already increased national debt by £12 billion, and Vince was in charge of the budget price sell off of the Royal Mail.
I'd suggest that his economic policies are not all they are cracked up to be.
He also plans to resign as leader as soon as Brexit is 'resolved'.

 

[blues exile]

I have no political allegence and consider myself a floating voter. Lib dems are certainly the party that aligns with my values the most at the moment and I've been a long time admirer of vince cable's views on what is best for the economy. If the election was tomorrow, I'd vote lib dem

The Tory austerity policy was enabled by the LibDems in coalition so they are equally guilty for the social consequences and economic failure of these cruel and divisive measures. How anyone can possibly ever give credence to the notion that they are any different from the Tories is beyond belief, and the electorate certainly gave their answer at the last GE which saw them virtually and deservedly, almost wiped out. If ever there was a wasted vote, it's a LibDem one.

 

[MK Shrimper]

The Tory austerity policy was enabled by the LibDems in coalition so they are equally guilty for the social consequences and economic failure of these cruel and divisive measures. How anyone can possibly ever give credence to the notion that they are any different from the Tories is beyond belief, and the electorate certainly gave their answer at the last GE which saw them virtually and deservedly, almost wiped out. If ever there was a wasted vote, it's a LibDem one.

Then it's a two party system, both of the desperate for a Brexit for different reasons, neither of which will come to fruition. Yay.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Then it's a two party system, both of the desperate for a Brexit for different reasons, neither of which will come to fruition. Yay.

Labour aren't desperate for Brexit. They are desperate to stop May's deal and to stop no deal - both of those things are achievable. After that they are pragmatic about Brexit, they recognise the result and don't wish to be the party that rejects the (flawed) democratic process but that is not by any means a trump card if enacting the result is not workable (the outcome I expect) but stage 1 of rejecting what May's incompetence has conjured up needs to happen first.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Thought this was interesting:-https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/04/may-to-begin-fresh-round-of-brexit-phone-talks-with-eu-leaders

"Figures released earlier this week suggest Conservative party members take a different view to the broader public over a no-deal outcome. A by the Economic and Social Research Council found that 57% of 1,215 members surveyed supported a no-deal Brexit if there was a three-way referendum in which May’s Brexit deal and remaining in the EU were the other two options. By comparison, only 25% of voters as a whole support no deal. Even among Conservative voters, the proportion of no-deal supporters is 43%, significantly below the figure for party members. "