Brexit negotiations thread

[MK Shrimper]

Labour aren't desperate for Brexit. They are desperate to stop May's deal and to stop no deal - both of those things are achievable. After that they are pragmatic about Brexit, they recognise the result and don't wish to be the party that rejects the (flawed) democratic process but that is not by any means a trump card if enacting the result is not workable (the outcome I expect) but stage 1 of rejecting what May's incompetence has conjured up needs to happen first.

Corbyn is. As I said at the time, by not backing a second vote he's drastically shot himself and Labour's chances in the foot come any election.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Corbyn is. As I said at the time, by not backing a second vote he's drastically shot himself and Labour's chances in the foot come any election.

There may well not be a snap election ,which means the Tories would have to keep their present dismal show on the road until 2022.If the so -called meaningful vote doesn't lead to May's Brexit plan being approved,then the pressure for another referendum and an extension of A50 will become unstoppable,IMO.Remember it is also Labour party policy to push for a second referendum if a call for an immediate GE is unsuccessful.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Corbyn is. As I said at the time, by not backing a second vote he's drastically shot himself and Labour's chances in the foot come any election.

2nd (3rd for the pedants) referendum is still on the table for Labour (only the Tories have ruled it out) but it is a potential (probable) option when we are at that point (which we are not as May's deal still hasn't been voted on in Parliament).

At an election the policy will be stated then, they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they announced policy too soon and created a distraction when May's deal needs full focus.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-deal-brexit-plan-manston-airfield-lorry-park

With this and the Ramsgate ferry fiasco it's now official.We have a Dad's Army Brexit.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-deal-brexit-plan-manston-airfield-lorry-park

With this and the Ramsgate ferry fiasco it's now official.We have a Dad's Army Brexit.

Ferrygate keeps racking up more embarrassment.

Ramsgate port is now being dredged. By a Dutch company.

Ben Sharp of Seaborne Freight has been lying about his previous company going into liquidation with an unpaid debt to one company of $1 million plus debts to other companies as well as unpaid tax (i.e. they owe us).

In April 2018 Seaborne Freight issued details to potential investors stating that contracts had been agreed with Ramsgate and Ostend ports. Today Ramsgate and Ostend ports have stated no contracts have been agreed.

Chris Grayling says Seaborne Freight passed his DD process. I wonder how much longer he will keep his job.

 

[rigsby]

As we are now over 4,000 posts on this thread and no one is going to change their mind why don't we get back to the bigger picture.

Since the vote, the EU has had a disastrous few years. Hungry and Poland threating to ignore the EU. As are Italy after their financial fiasco. The latest set back is now the yellow vests.

Any one pro EU has given up trying to sell the project because of course they cant. Instead the main reason people call for a second vote, is because we cant sort out some paperwork and we have a PM who has been put in place to deliberately fail the democratic process.

All across Europe we have the rise of anti-Eu parties. Marine Le Penn is storming ahead of Macron and another so called 'right wing' party have growing support in France

They have major problems ahead, none of which can be solved. Forget 'We need to be part of it, to help reform it'. The hole in the ship is way to big and the crew running it have not got a clue.

Despite what some claim, big business and the financial institutions are never going to cut ties with us. In fact we will prosper as the rest of Europe slides into a mess. Who knows how bad that will be, as the saying goes "Don't try to catch a falling knife."

The whole project was hi-jacked and tuned into a glorified Ponzi scheme, which means failure and misery is inevitable.

Now I know some of you Remain folk don't want to be proved wrong and its understandable why and some of you don't want to risk what you have because you no doubt have more than the average person. But its time to be honest and say there is absolutely nothing to gain by remaining, its clear there are to many family squabbles. In fact it looks like it could turn into one big brawl at the wedding.

If everyone was as nice as us, as fair as us and payed their share it could work. Unfortunately they aren't and they never will be. So for the good of your immediate family lets open our doors to the rest of the planet and lets trade under our rules because despite what some claim we still have a good name around world

We have the chance to lead the way because by opening up trade, Including all the basics like food and clothing we not only help the worlds poorest countries but we help those in Britain who have less than most of us.

Even for Labours biggest supporters, Brexit would actually suit you. You could win a GE on domestic issues but you will lose if we are still in the EU......So please don't do what my Union did and cut of your noses to spite your face......Because we will all suffer.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

As we are now over 4,000 posts on this thread and no one is going to change their mind why don't we get back to the bigger picture.

Since the vote, the EU has had a disastrous few years. Hungry and Poland threating to ignore the EU. As are Italy after their financial fiasco. The latest set back is now the yellow vests.

Any one pro EU has given up trying to sell the project because of course they cant. Instead the main reason people call for a second vote, is because we cant sort out some paperwork and we have a PM who has been put in place to deliberately fail the democratic process.

All across Europe we have the rise of anti-Eu parties. Marine Le Penn is storming ahead of Macron and another so called 'right wing' party have growing support in France

They have major problems ahead, none of which can be solved. Forget 'We need to be part of it, to help reform it'. The hole in the ship is way to big and the crew running it have not got a clue.

Despite what some claim, big business and the financial institutions are never going to cut ties with us. In fact we will prosper as the rest of Europe slides into a mess. Who knows how bad that will be, as the saying goes "Don't try to catch a falling knife."

The whole project was hi-jacked and tuned into a glorified Ponzi scheme, which means failure and misery is inevitable.

Now I know some of you Remain folk don't want to be proved wrong and its understandable why and some of you don't want to risk what you have because you no doubt have more than the average person. But its time to be honest and say there is absolutely nothing to gain by remaining, its clear there are to many family squabbles. In fact it looks like it could turn into one big brawl at the wedding.

If everyone was as nice as us, as fair as us and payed their share it could work. Unfortunately they aren't and they never will be. So for the good of your immediate family lets open our doors to the rest of the planet and lets trade under our rules because despite what some claim we still have a good name around world

We have the chance to lead the way because by opening up trade, Including all the basics like food and clothing we not only help the worlds poorest countries but we help those in Britain who have less than most of us.

Even for Labours biggest supporters, Brexit would actually suit you. You could win a GE on domestic issues but you will lose if we are still in the EU......So please don't do what my Union did and cut of your noses to spite your face......Because we will all suffer.

The big picture is that there was a narrow vote to Leave so the government of the day have to put that into practice. They have royally ****ed that up so now the big issue is how to deal with that catastrophic failure. The more May runs down the clock and the more shambolic no deal 'preparations' are revealed to be the more remaining in the EU seems the safest option.
If they had presented a deal to Parliament a year ago and it been rejected and they invested the rest of that time on preparing to just leave then we could just leave. Their prep is as good as non existent. Brexit is over. The Tories killed it off.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...sured-of-residency-in-event-of-no-brexit-deal

I see Italy has become the first EU country to recognise the rights of UK nationals to legal residency there in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

 

[MK Shrimper]

#books flights to Sorrento.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Ferrygate keeps racking up more embarrassment.

Ramsgate port is now being dredged. By a Dutch company.

Ben Sharp of Seaborne Freight has been lying about his previous company going into liquidation with an unpaid debt to one company of $1 million plus debts to other companies as well as unpaid tax (i.e. they owe us).

In April 2018 Seaborne Freight issued details to potential investors stating that contracts had been agreed with Ramsgate and Ostend ports. Today Ramsgate and Ostend ports have stated no contracts have been agreed.

Chris Grayling says Seaborne Freight passed his DD process. I wonder how much longer he will keep his job.

Seriously, not long I'd imagine. I sincerely hope not anyway. If I'd been that slack or inept in doing my job I'd have been out on my ear within 24 hours.

The whole story stinks to high heaven of underhand political shenanigans and the sooner someone or some entity gets to the bottom of things the better but I'm not holding out much hope of that ever happening.

 

[Bielzibubz]

The whole project was hi-jacked and tuned into a glorified Ponzi scheme, which means failure and misery is inevitable.

This, this is the most salient point of that post. Led by Germany and France and in cohorts with the ECB, the IMF and the French and German banks it's so corrupt it beggars belief.

There are many, many books and publications out there from various sources from both sides of the political divide that spell out exactly how corrupt and undemocratic it's become, especially in the last decade or so.

I implore those that perhaps don't know, or who would like to know more about why we find ourselves where we are now to research it. I promise you it will amaze and anger you in equal measure.

 

[Bielzibubz]

#books flights to Sorrento.

Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

As we are now over 4,000 posts on this thread and no one is going to change their mind why don't we get back to the bigger picture.

Since the vote, the EU has had a disastrous few years. Hungry and Poland threating to ignore the EU. As are Italy after their financial fiasco. The latest set back is now the yellow vests.

Any one pro EU has given up trying to sell the project because of course they cant. Instead the main reason people call for a second vote, is because we cant sort out some paperwork and we have a PM who has been put in place to deliberately fail the democratic process.

All across Europe we have the rise of anti-Eu parties. Marine Le Penn is storming ahead of Macron and another so called 'right wing' party have growing support in France

They have major problems ahead, none of which can be solved. Forget 'We need to be part of it, to help reform it'. The hole in the ship is way to big and the crew running it have not got a clue.

Despite what some claim, big business and the financial institutions are never going to cut ties with us. In fact we will prosper as the rest of Europe slides into a mess. Who knows how bad that will be, as the saying goes "Don't try to catch a falling knife."

The whole project was hi-jacked and tuned into a glorified Ponzi scheme, which means failure and misery is inevitable.

Now I know some of you Remain folk don't want to be proved wrong and its understandable why and some of you don't want to risk what you have because you no doubt have more than the average person. But its time to be honest and say there is absolutely nothing to gain by remaining, its clear there are to many family squabbles. In fact it looks like it could turn into one big brawl at the wedding.

If everyone was as nice as us, as fair as us and payed their share it could work. Unfortunately they aren't and they never will be. So for the good of your immediate family lets open our doors to the rest of the planet and lets trade under our rules because despite what some claim we still have a good name around world

We have the chance to lead the way because by opening up trade, Including all the basics like food and clothing we not only help the worlds poorest countries but we help those in Britain who have less than most of us.

Even for Labours biggest supporters, Brexit would actually suit you. You could win a GE on domestic issues but you will lose if we are still in the EU......So please don't do what my Union did and cut of your noses to spite your face......Because we will all suffer.

INDEED! let's get back to the bigger picture, I'm just afraid yours is not big enough. Your tunnel vision restricts you to just looking at Europe and its problems.........which are certainly serious enough. Yet look at the whole world at the moment. China and Russian expansionism; Trump in the USA; Brazil and their new President............unfortunately, the WHOLE world is descending into crisis. You Brexiters, at this moment in time, think it's a good idea for little old England to set off on our own and roar on the World stage. It may be a surprise for you to understand that there are those who believe it is total folly..........rather like leaving a convoy and setting off in a hostile ocean believing that waving the Union Jack and singing Rule Britannia will see us through the storm and lead us to calm waters. Insane!

 

[OldBlueLady]

Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I have good friends from all different areas of politics, some I agree with, some I don't - but they are all good people. MK is one of my closest friends on here despite the fact that we are at opposite ends of the political spectrum.

 

[Bielzibubz]

That's fine but he's not mine. I don't know him from Adam and if he does up sticks and moves to Sorrento or wherever then so be it, I couldn't care less, and I won't stop criticising or being sarky to anyone because they happen to be friends with friends. Sorry OBL, I appreciate he's your friend but that doesn't change anything. Peace

 

[Bielzibubz]

INDEED! let's get back to the bigger picture, I'm just afraid yours is not big enough. Your tunnel vision restricts you to just looking at Europe and its problems.........which are certainly serious enough. Yet look at the whole world at the moment. China and Russian expansionism; Trump in the USA; Brazil and their new President............unfortunately, the WHOLE world is descending into crisis. You Brexiters, at this moment in time, think it's a good idea for little old England to set off on our own and roar on the World stage. It may be a surprise for you to understand that there are those who believe it is total folly..........rather like leaving a convoy and setting off in a hostile ocean believing that waving the Union Jack and singing Rule Britannia will see us through the storm and lead us to calm waters. Insane!

What makes you believe your opinions are any more valid or correct than mine or Rigby's or anyone else that voted leave? Are you more intelligent, more informed, better educated or more 'in the know'? I've been guilty of being quite condescending (see my highlighted bits) in some of my relies and remarks on this thread but one thing I do recognise is that what I believe and post on here is just my opinion given my knowledge and what I know, or believe I know to be the truth. Comments like 'You Brexiters' does little to contribute to the argument. In fact all it serves to do is get the backs up of those with opposing views to yourself and set the tone of the reply.

 

[MK Shrimper]

That's fine but he's not mine. I don't know him from Adam and if he does up sticks and moves to Sorrento or wherever then so be it, I couldn't care less, and I won't stop criticising or being sarky to anyone because they happen to be friends with friends. Sorry OBL, I appreciate he's your friend but that doesn't change anything. Peace

How the **** will I sleep tonight knowing a prize gammon doesn't like me. Oh the shame.

 

[Bielzibubz]

How the **** will I sleep tonight knowing a prize gammon doesn't like me. Oh the shame.

I don't dislike you and nowhere have I said I do? I don't know you so how can I. I dislike your views yes. Like or dislike you. I don't know whether I would or wouldn't, we've never met.

Now, personal ****ing contests aside. Back to the topic at hand.

 

[rigsby]

The big picture is that there was a narrow vote to Leave so the government of the day have to put that into practice. They have royally ****ed that up so now the big issue is how to deal with that catastrophic failure. The more May runs down the clock and the more shambolic no deal 'preparations' are revealed to be the more remaining in the EU seems the safest option.
If they had presented a deal to Parliament a year ago and it been rejected and they invested the rest of that time on preparing to just leave then we could just leave. Their prep is as good as non existent. Brexit is over. The Tories killed it off.

Standard avoid the EU failings and blame May. Not only is she a Tory but a woman as well.

There is only one person who has come out worse than May so far...….Corbyn.

 

[rigsby]

INDEED! let's get back to the bigger picture, I'm just afraid yours is not big enough. Your tunnel vision restricts you to just looking at Europe and its problems.........which are certainly serious enough. Yet look at the whole world at the moment. China and Russian expansionism; Trump in the USA; Brazil and their new President............unfortunately, the WHOLE world is descending into crisis. You Brexiters, at this moment in time, think it's a good idea for little old England to set off on our own and roar on the World stage. It may be a surprise for you to understand that there are those who believe it is total folly..........rather like leaving a convoy and setting off in a hostile ocean believing that waving the Union Jack and singing Rule Britannia will see us through the storm and lead us to calm waters. Insane!

Maybe if you stopped wetting the bed for just one day, you would have some clarity in your thinking.

Screaming little Englander at me and burying your head in the EU sand pit wont help.

Who ever is president of Brazil wont ever affect us...…..You need to think what your going to do when Marine Le Penn is in charge of you...….I told you its going to happen and it will be the end of the EU.