Brexit negotiations thread

[rigsby]

Think you'll find that the actual number of people who voted Leave in the referendum was
17,410,742 or 51.89% of the electorate.Why you should wish to artificially inflate this figure I've no idea?

You also have the disingenous habit of believing that you speak for all leave voters and many remainers too.Amazing.[/QUOTE

It may not have been top of everyone’s list but uncontrolled and unlimited immigration, including those with serious convictions and no skills. Was and still is a major concern for a lot more people and not just those who voted out..... But of course you already know that, even if you won’t admit it.

Seeing as you studied politics, you should know that in times of austerity the populace are far more likely to want radical changes. So it did contribute towards Brexit......Why you would deny this I have no idea.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It may not have been top of everyone’s list but uncontrolled and unlimited immigration, including those with serious convictions and no skills. Was and still is a major concern for a lot more people and not just those who voted out..... But of course you already know that, even if you won’t admit it.

Seeing as you studied politics, you should know that in times of austerity the populace are far more likely to want radical changes. So it did contribute towards Brexit......Why you would deny this I have no idea.

I'm not denying it at all-in fact I think it's going to be JC and Labour's ticket into government, after Mrs May's inept government **** up the Brexit negotiations.Time for you to toodle off to the game too-give us a wave from East Blues. :-)

 

[rigsby]

I'm not denying it at all-in fact I think it's going to be JC and Labour's ticket into government.Time for you to toodle off to the game too-give us a wave from East Blues. :-)

If only JC had stuck to his life long principles of Brexit that may have been true.

I won’t be in the East Blues

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

If only JC had stuck to his life long principles of Brexit that may have been true.

I won’t be in the East Blues

JC has always been consistently opposed to the EU.

Glad to hear you won't be in the East Blues- the view must be terrible from there.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Doh.Wrong thread.

 

[mfurok]

Best you toodle off to the game squire.No messages.Give us a wave from the DB . :-)

PS.Edward? Not Mr Wiltshire,by any chance?

Edward Lloyd.

Lloyd's began in his coffee shop in the 17th century.

A sort of seventeen hundreds East India Arms.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

This could be huge! Corbyn............."If conference backs new Brexit vote I will too."


Jeremy Corbyn tells the Sunday Mirror he will back a second referendum on Brexit if Labour members say they want one during the party conference...

 

[Benfleet A1]

Well he wants to make his mind up with that front page. Neither JRM or May want a second vote and JRM would rather we walk away with nothing anyway. He neads to grab the nettle on this a bit sharpish.

 

[kaymac]

Simple question for anyone......why is it, when a large majority of constituencies around the country UK voted Out, that the respective elected representatives (i.e. MP's) are not following the wishes of their constituents ?

 

[rigsby]

Simple question for anyone......why is it, when a large majority of constituencies around the country UK voted Out, that the respective elected representatives (i.e. MP's) are not following the wishes of their constituents ?

Indeed. In England and Wales 75% of Labour constituencies vote leave.

When the London and Surrey elite force Corbyn into showing his true deceitful colours and calling for a second referendum it will end his wonderful surge based on doing nothing.

Along with a bad deal its exactly what many in the Tory party want. They can then fight the next GE on the usual we will be tuff on immigration etc.

In the meantime their paymasters who control the media will be earning their next £billion because it will be business as usual......All in the name of the EU.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Simple question for anyone......why is it, when a large majority of constituencies around the country UK voted Out, that the respective elected representatives (i.e. MP's) are not following the wishes of their constituents ?

Simple question?????? Not at all! Is an MP primarily elected to air the views of his constituents or is he elected to represent the views of his political party? In addition to this doesn't he have the right to vote independently, with his own conscience, on what he believes to be issues concerning the moral, political and economical good of the country? If a simple majority of the MP's electorate were in favour of capital punishment, should that oblige him to go against his conscience and vote for it? It goes to the heart of what kind of democracy you favour. Would you prefer to see a House of Commons where, for example there is great diversity of views within a political party, like the Tory Party over Europe (perhaps that's not a good example as the Tory split over Europe is an exceptional issue for them). Or would you prefer, what I fear the Labour Party could become............ a Commons of 'yes men (woman)' who unquestionably follow the dictates of their leader or executive?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Simple question for anyone......why is it, when a large majority of constituencies around the country UK voted Out, that the respective elected representatives (i.e. MP's) are not following the wishes of their constituents ?

Simple answer too..It's because the vast majority of MP's (whether Tory or Labour ) know that leaving the EU,especially without a deal, on WTO terms,would be an economic disaster for the UK.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Indeed. In England and Wales 75% of Labour constituencies vote leave.

When the London and Surrey elite force Corbyn into showing his true deceitful colours and calling for a second referendum it will end his wonderful surge based on doing nothing.

Along with a bad deal its exactly what many in the Tory party want. They can then fight the next GE on the usual we will be tuff on immigration etc.

In the meantime their paymasters who control the media will be earning their next £billion because it will be business as usual......All in the name of the EU.

I wouldn't try and prejudge what Conference will decide next week,if I were you. That's a fool's game.

 

[kaymac]

Thanks the replies, chaps. I've long regarded both main parties as being in states of turmoil, each having members following their own specific agendas. The issues over exiting the EU appear to have brought these in-party divisions more to light by the day. Given say a general election tomorrow I'd have no trust whatsoever in either the Tories or Labour, but still believe a democratic vote should be binding on all parties involved (and certainly not open to a 'second chance' voting option under any circumstances).

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Thanks the replies, chaps. I've long regarded both main parties as being in states of turmoil, each having members following their own specific agendas. The issues over exiting the EU appear to have brought these in-party divisions more to light by the day. Given say a general election tomorrow I'd have no trust whatsoever in either the Tories or Labour, but still believe a democratic vote should be binding on all parties involved (and certainly not open to a 'second chance' voting option under any circumstances).

It is still official Labour party policy to respect the referendum result (as it is with the Tories of course). Personally I rather doubt that Conference will mandate the leadership to support a referendum on the terms of Brexit next week.

The 2016 referendum was only called by Cameron to unite the Tory party after UKIP won the previous EU elections in 2014. Wilson's 1975 referendum did actually succeed in uniting Labour after the result.That's something the current Tory leadership has signally failed to do after 2016.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Many times during the whole Brexit saga has one feel total despair. With such a short time for negotiating remaining it beggars belief that we are still being lied to by both sides. Following the Mirror article I posted earlier, McCluskey has put in his two penneth worth. According to him, any second referendum must be restricted just to approval of any deal May manages to achieve with the EU. If the result was negative then, he believes, a General Election would need to be called..........

“And if that government is a Corbyn government, not only will we come out of the European Union but we will come out of it with a deal that will unite the whole nation.”

So, what do we have here? A party whose priority is not solving the Brexit impasse but just trying to use it in order to force a General Election. McCluskey wants the the Labour Party to rest on the fence, facing both ways, so that it doesn't risk losing its supporters, whichever side of the Brexit fence they stand. It worked in 2017..............i'm not sure it'll work again. Even if you get past the hyporcritical political maneuvering, the assumption they can get a better deal than the Tories (and one that Europe will accept) whilst still keeping faith with the referendum result is truly breathtaking.
On the other side it's really no better. Raab on this morning's Andrew Marr Show, claiming that the EU's Brexit opposition is fuelling the far right.

"And one of the things that does is give rise to extremism and fringe politics and all the anti-elitism which we're seeing fuelling populist movements across continental Europe, is this idea that when the people have their say, they're sent back to the drawing board because the elite in Europe don’t like the answer."

OK, let's be clear. The Brexit result is not one that has pleased the EU, they fear that both the UK and the EU will suffer from its consequences. They DON'T disrespect the referendum result, just the totally unacceptable terms on which the UK wants to leave. As much a remainer as I am, I would have respected the government's position a lot more if they had tried to negotiate more realistically with Europe, than spending the majority of its time bickering amongst themselves. IF, a year ago we had approached the EU to negotiate, let's say, on the basis of a Norway or Canada form of deal, things would have probably been done and dusted by now. I wouldn't have been very happy but at least would have probably been begrudgingly obliged to accept the result. My continuing remain position has only been reinforced by the total incompetence of this government's negotiating approach and the failure to see a way in which a successful Brexit can be achieved.

 

[rigsby]

I wouldn't try and prejudge what Conference will decide next week,if I were you. That's a fool's game.

Would that be the one in Liverpool....The very city where the left wing Nazis that now run Labour want to deselect a local MP, Luciana Berger...... I can’t think why but the call her a dirty Zionist pig.

Perhaps Baroness white wash can explain next week. She won’t because they will be busy screaming for a second referendum because they will never respect democracy.

 

[Lord Football]

Would that be the one in Liverpool....The very city where the left wing Nazis that now run Labour want to deselect a local MP, Luciana Berger...... I can’t think why but the call her a dirty Zionist pig.

Perhaps Baroness white wash can explain next week. She won’t because they will be busy screaming for a second referendum because they will never respect democracy.

This is one of those occassions where it is better to think something than post something.

Maybe something you'd like to consider in future.

Anyway, that's me out of this part of the forum. Nazis, sheesh.....

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Would that be the one in Liverpool....The very city where the left wing Nazis that now run Labour want to deselect a local MP, Luciana Berger...... I can’t think why but the call her a dirty Zionist pig.

Perhaps Baroness white wash can explain next week. She won’t because they will be busy screaming for a second referendum because they will never respect democracy.

The problem that Labour have is while 60% of their members voted remain, 40% of their voters opted for leave in the referendum.

Meanwhile back on planet earth,as I understand it,in the motion that Labour members will be voting on this week, the key sentence of the final draft says: “If we cannot get a general election Labour must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...der-pressure-from-all-sides-over-peoples-vote

 

[MK Shrimper]

The problem that Labour have is while 60% of their members voted remain, 40% of their voters opted for leave in the referendum.

Meanwhile back on planet earth,as I understand it,in the motion that Labour members will be voting on this week, the key sentence of the final draft says: “If we cannot get a general election Labour must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...der-pressure-from-all-sides-over-peoples-vote

But with no "remain" option.

Regardless of what you & AAS state, Labour will not win the next election with such a stance despite the utter **** show that is the Tory party. What an absolute pitiful state UK politics is in and all thanks to that pig-****er Cameron kotowing to UKIP.