Brexit negotiations thread

[Tangled up in Blue]

Anger????

I'm not angry MK on the contrary, I have voted to leave the EU and we have invoked article 50 to allow that to happen.....perhaps it isn't me that is angry?

I'm sure you will agree that if companies can hire trained staff from overseas to fill a skills gap, then they will do so, and then there is no requirement to train.

However you haven't answered the point which is that highly trained staff don't utilise those skills preferring to pick fruit despite being qualified in whatever vocation...doubtless you will explain to me in the next post why it is a good idea for trained Polish social workers to pick seasonal work over using their knowledge in it's applicable field.

It's manifestly not a good idea a good idea I would have thought but probably a necessary one,given that (I imagine) Polish social workers can earn more in the UK for temporary casual work Certinly prices in Poland are much cheaper than they are in the UK (as Iremember from a trip to Krakow a few years back).

It's a commonplace to say here in Spain that pay for professionals is some 20% lower than in most advanced EU countries.That's precisely why our younger daughterwho's a project manager,has just taken up a tex free post in Colombia after working in Barna for a year.

Ever wondered why there are so many French/Spanish baristas in London pubs/coffee shops to improve their English? Wonder where they'll all go when Brexit happens?

 

[callan]

Can you show me the variation of the wages of a Cambridgeshire fruit pickers vs a social worker in Warsaw?

Google will probably be your friend....

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Google will probably be your friend....

Not in this particular case as far as I can see. Perhaps you'd care to interview some of the principals yourself?

 

[callan]

I did a lot of work about ten years ago with migrant workers in rural Cambridgeshire. most are Portuguese, because funnily, they grow a lot of fruit there and they are skilled fruit pickers. Go on, pop down your local arable farm and see how quickly you can clear a field of strawberries. Then watch these guys go at it.

The words "rural Cambridgeshire" are quite important. Ever been there? You may have done, but there is no reason to. No one lives there. So there isn't a local population desperate for the prospect of picking fruit. The migrant workers who come in, live in temporary accommodation, stay for the duration of the harvest and then either go back to Portugal or move onto another harvest, elsewhere.

So, you have a large, trained, seasonal workforce in low population areas. Take them away, there isn't really an alternative.

Brexit is making them not come, because Brexit was clearly a vote against "people coming over here and taking my job".

Most Poles who come here are skilled builders. The site down Vic Avenue where Heath House was, is pretty much being built by Poles. I've a houseful next to me. They'll be gone back to Wroclaw when they're done as they don't know if they're welcome here. Will you find stats on this? I dunno. I speak to them, its what they tell me.

And funnily enough, if you ever go to Poland (and I suggest you do, its a wonderful place), you will find a society much like ours. They're just very, very good at building things. It's not some third world **** hole. It even has highly trained, well paid social workers.

I live in rural Cambridgeshire, and as you point it is an area that relies on seasonal labour, historically it was a mixed effort between students, the Romany community and local Labour.

With the advent of freedom of movement, the Portuguese came who were then undercut by eastern European Labour and even that has become factional with Romanians now seemingly undercutting everybody.

Most jobs in the food and agricultural sector are not advertised in English, and over time in the food processing factories English became the second language.

Things have improved since the 2016 referendum with larger employers now returning to home grown Labour, as they are hedging their bets against whether the international work force will stay.

Services are stretched beyond belief, and there is little in the way of infrastructure....the area like many others in the country has been overlooked in terms of funding either from a domestic or EU point of view.....

As far as the locals are concerned they have been hit by two waves of immigration, one from overseas affecting work opportunities in addition to people like myself taking advantage of cheaper property and land values.

From my own personal point of view I will be using Romany Labour this year to harvest my crops as will the local orchard growers who mostly supply Thatchers.

 

[callan]

Not in this particular case as far as I can see. Perhaps you'd care to interview some of the principals yourself?

It isn't my question it is MK that wants to know.....I won't be putting too much effort into answering it....as he hasn't managed to answer any of the questions I have asked.

 

[MK Shrimper]

It isn't my question it is MK that wants to know.....I won't be putting too much effort into answering it....as he hasn't managed to answer any of the questions I have asked.

Yes I have. So you think making (possibly) 3 million British people out of work is a price worth paying if we crash out with a no deal?

 

[callan]

Yes I have. So you think making (possibly) 3 million British people out of work is a price worth paying if we crash out with a no deal?

You haven't even come close to answering a question.

As far as WTO terms are concerned I don't hold any fear of them and don't believe that 3 million will lose their Jobs.

 

[MK Shrimper]

You haven't even come close to answering a question.

As far as WTO terms are concerned I don't hold any fear of them and don't believe that 3 million will lose their Jobs.

Well I disagree. And brighter brains than you and I have forecast the economic turmoil that a disasterous no-deal situation will bring and in my eyes, it will not be worth wrecking an economy that was growing when we were (and hopefully still will be come April 2019) in the EU.

 

[kaymac]

Why do love the EU so much, MK, and why do you want the UK to outsouce the running of the country to the EU ? Genuine queries. Must admit I'm somewhat puzzled by your lack of regard for the result of a democratic vote, are you of non-UK origin perhaps?

 

[MK Shrimper]

Why do love the EU so much, MK, and why do you want the UK to outsouce the running of the country to the EU ? Genuine queries. Must admit I'm somewhat puzzled by your lack of regard for the result of a democratic vote, are you of non-UK origin perhaps?

Love? I don't love the EU, I'm just thankful for the great benefits we've enjoyed over the last 40+ years by being members of the EU. And as we can see by (pitiful) fines levied on the various Vote Leave campaigns the vote was far from democratic - it was a mixture of lies, hyper bole and scaremongering by million/billionaires who will probably get even richer as the rest of us struggle.

 

[callan]

Love? I don't love the EU, I'm just thankful for the great benefits we've enjoyed over the last 40+ years by being members of the EU. And as we can see by (pitiful) fines levied on the various Vote Leave campaigns the vote was far from democratic - it was a mixture of lies, hyper bole and scaremongering by million/billionaires who will probably get even richer as the rest of us struggle.

Remain have also lied, and also been fined...you have a very strange view of democracy....and only ever see this from one side which is your own...is there no positive side to Brexit that you can see?

Where was the democratic vote to join a political union?

 

[MK Shrimper]

Remain have also lied, and also been fined...you have a very strange view of democracy....and only ever see this from one side which is your own...is there no positive side to Brexit that you can see?

Where was the democratic vote to join a political union?

I think Brexit will be the most damaging thing to hit our country for many generations.

 

[Napster]

Remain have also lied, and also been fined...you have a very strange view of democracy....and only ever see this from one side which is your own...is there no positive side to Brexit that you can see?

Where was the democratic vote to join a political union?

I can see a positive side. Blue passports.

ps there was a referendum after we joined which was overwhelmingly positive

https://www.cvce.eu/obj/jan_henrik_...-en-eb67b6cf-33ef-4f79-9510-b6fab56d2509.html

 

[callan]

I can see a positive side. Blue passports.

ps there was a referendum after we joined which was overwhelmingly positive

https://www.cvce.eu/obj/jan_henrik_...-en-eb67b6cf-33ef-4f79-9510-b6fab56d2509.html

To join the EEC naps not the EU.

 

[callan]

I think Brexit will be the most damaging thing to hit our country for many generations.

So that's a no then MK.

 

[MK Shrimper]

So that's a no then MK.

Lol, definitely not. I am dreading March 30th 2019.

 

[SARF]

Oh dear.. post vote we were supposed to fall into an instant pit of economic depression..
The PM wrong.. the Chancellor wrong..
The IMF. Wrong..
O back of the Q bama. Wrong
CARNEY our Canadian governor of the BOE. Wrong

It’s the people who call the shots.. business adapts to the the new reality. The fleet,of foot succeed. The one who rely on taxpayers money to fund their business should fail

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Oh dear.. post vote we were supposed to fall into an instant pit of economic depression..
The PM wrong.. the Chancellor wrong..
The IMF. Wrong..
O back of the Q bama. Wrong
CARNEY our Canadian governor of the BOE. Wrong

It’s the people who call the shots.. business adapts to the the new reality. The fleet,of foot succeed. The one who rely on taxpayers money to fund their business should fail[/QUOTE]

Wait and see what happens after March 30th 2019, if the UK crashes out of the EU on WTO terms.

Even successful businesses will fail.All of the "events" you mention are merely prelude.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Oh dear.. post vote we were supposed to fall into an instant pit of economic depression..
The PM wrong.. the Chancellor wrong..
The IMF. Wrong..
O back of the Q bama. Wrong
CARNEY our Canadian governor of the BOE. Wrong

It’s the people who call the shots.. business adapts to the the new reality. The fleet,of foot succeed. The one who rely on taxpayers money to fund their business should fail

It will certainly be some people calling the shots and many will make a huge killing (Aaron Banks etc etc) In the brave new Britain which will be created it will almost certainly be the survival of the fittest (and that won't only apply to businesses). In the low wage, highly insecure society, you'll look after yourself and if you can't .....................tough! As I've pointed out before, the world has changed for the worse since the referendum in 2016. It's dog eats dog and if you haven't got clout, it's likely to be you on the menu. If it all goes t**s up with the negotiations, as they say here..................bon courage!
You can take consolation in the fact that Mogg has assured us that in 50 years, we shall know if our bid for 'freedom' and 'taking back control' has worked. One thing you can be sure of, if it all turns out as a disaster it won't be him and his ilk who suffer. It will be the poor and the weak who will pay a heavy price, the very people who were persuaded that Brexit offered new hope and opportunity. Anyway, good luck to you, it's always good to be strong in belief. You don't , by chance, think that global warming is fake news? It's obviously a load of rubbish........who on earth believes in experts these days?..........they're ALWAYS wrong......... just another project fear!

 

[Member]

bleak

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07/27/this-is-what-no-deal-brexit-actually-looks-like