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Brexit negotiations thread

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Ricky Otto said:
I've read this thread for a long time and choose not to get involved with discussion because I'm angry and I know I'll get aggressive and probably get myself a ban.

I always agreed that the vote should be upheld and that us remainers should suck it up but this is nothing like what most leave voters thought they were voting for.
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We were told it would be easy to leave the EU. We were told that the UK held all the negotiating cards and that the EU needed us more than we needed the EU. We were promised immediate benefits on our departure. We were promised countries would be falling over themselves to do quick trade deals with us, as if it were that simple and rapid. We were promised things on immigration which were just not practical........to say the least. All these promises appear to be lies. Add to that, the world has completely changed since June 2016, it's now a colder unfriendlier and frightening place to strike out alone in.
We have a government which has proved itself to be an incompetent shambles, especially when it comes to Brexit. With all this we are assured that, because we approved this back then and have come so close to the precipice, we can't stop now, we're obliged to jump off.
 
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rigsby said:
Who, Spain?
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I've seen it suggested in the English press (The Observer ,IIRC) that Spain might not want to play ball because of Gib.Remember one veto from any of the other 27 EU states would be
enough to wreck any deal.

PS I thought you'd still be playing cricket. :Smile2::Winking:
 
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Oh! Can this really get any sillier. Raab downgraded after only two weeks in the job. May taking control of negotiations.................we know we're in safe hands then! :Hilarious: More seriously, what does this mean? May sees us (no deal) crashing out with, as she knows, catastrophic consequences. However, she'll need to eat her words and bend considerably to get a deal. Doing that, how long will she last? and of course, the question I've posed many times, starts to arise. What on earth is the point of a deal which will likely be worse than the one we have at the moment, still tied to the EU and without a say? Well, you can't claim that Brexit, at the moment, is dull! :Smile:
 
I am just wondering how some of you Brexiteers will believe what is likely to happen.

Ah!!! (I just hope the Ration Books are blue)

37753385_1644612872327565_8322641511401390080_o.jpg
 
callan said:
When is this food rationing about to begin MK?....before or after the sky falls in?
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Probably soon after April 1st. After all HMG are after all stockpiling food & medicine. Or did you miss that, Callan waiting for the impossible scenario that you Brexiteers were all promised?
 
callan said:
So April the second then MK we will both has shiny food ration books, correct?
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I have no idea. Ask the Government you probably voted for who, as I said, are stockpiling food and medicine, who are considering closing motorways in Kent and turning them into lorry parks.

I don't ever remember that happening since I've been alive, which for most of he time was when the country was in the Common Market/EU.

What on earth do you think we would gain from this utter mess? Because whatever it was do you think you're going to get anything like what you were promised?
 
MK Shrimper said:
I have no idea. Ask the Government you probably voted for who, as I said, are stockpiling food and medicine, who are considering closing motorways in Kent and turning them into lorry parks.

I don't ever remember that happening since I've been alive, which for most of he time was when the country was in the Common Market/EU.

What on earth do you think we would gain from this utter mess? Because whatever it was do you think you're going to get anything like what you were promised?
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Firstly I didn't vote Tory.

There have been several times that this country has had to re look at the way it does things in terms of freight grid locking, the UK is and will remain a massive consumer market with huge spending power meaning that we import 3 times plus the amount of goods that we export...for containerized goods it's a logistical nightmare and has been for years....with Southampton grid locking constantly....in terms over dover how many times to the French like to go on strike?...or indeed Calais that was slowed down due to migrants....I don't recall you being up in arms about any of these,

Governments have been stockpiling food since the end of world war 2 including our own mostly borne out of food security measures, and who cannot forget the butter mountains etc that the EU were so fond of dumping on underdeveloped countries....no doubt you are a keen fan of the EU's common agricultural project, and the way that it penalises the poor?

What I want ultimately is for the UK to become independent of the EU politically, that is what I voted for.

The EU has plenty of trade deals that do not include any of the four freedoms, so why do you think the UK as the EU's biggest customer should be treated differently?
 
MK Shrimper said:
Why? And at what cost to the economy? Is it worth putting almost 3 million people out of work?
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There are many reasons why, from having greater sovereignty to the lack of democracy in the EU, plus the way we were taken into political union without a say.

Corruption, the Euro, open borders, its inability to reform, the parlous state of national banks due to the ECB, the treatment of Greece, mass unemployment for the under 25's across the continent and so the list goes on.

You never worried about the unemployed before or brain drains that have effected EU economies, why weren't you up in arms about mass unemployment on the continent...or a system that means a trained social worker from Poland gets more for picking fruit in the UK.
 
callan said:
There are many reasons why, from having greater sovereignty to the lack of democracy in the EU, plus the way we were taken into political union without a say.

Corruption, the Euro, open borders, its inability to reform, the parlous state of national banks due to the ECB, the treatment of Greece, mass unemployment for the under 25's across the continent and so the list goes on.

You never worried about the unemployed before or brain drains that have effected EU economies, why weren't you up in arms about mass unemployment on the continent...or a system that means a trained social worker from Poland gets more for picking fruit in the UK.
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British companies are crying out for skilled staff. The so-called brain drain will still happen if we're in the EU or not. In my small team I work with a Romanian, a chap from Hong Kong, and two Indian nationals. That is over 50% of the team because we just can't find the same skill set within the British workforce.

For mass unemployment in the EU perhaps you should focus your anger on the tech industry where computers/drones/automation etc are putting people out of work. Not to mention cheaper labour in the far east.

Leaving the EU will have no effect on this.
 
MK Shrimper said:
British companies are crying out for skilled staff. The so-called brain drain will still happen if we're in the EU or not. In my small team I work with a Romanian, a chap from Hong Kong, and two Indian nationals. That is over 50% of the team because we just can't find the same skill set within the British workforce.

For mass unemployment in the EU perhaps you should focus your anger on the tech industry where computers/drones/automation etc are putting people out of work. Not to mention cheaper labour in the far east.

Leaving the EU will have no effect on this.
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Anger????

I'm not angry MK on the contrary, I have voted to leave the EU and we have invoked article 50 to allow that to happen.....perhaps it isn't me that is angry?

I'm sure you will agree that if companies can hire trained staff from overseas to fill a skills gap, then they will do so, and then there is no requirement to train.

However you haven't answered the point which is that highly trained staff don't utilise those skills preferring to pick fruit despite being qualified in whatever vocation...doubtless you will explain to me in the next post why it is a good idea for trained Polish social workers to pick seasonal work over using their knowledge in it's applicable field.
 
I did a lot of work about ten years ago with migrant workers in rural Cambridgeshire. most are Portuguese, because funnily, they grow a lot of fruit there and they are skilled fruit pickers. Go on, pop down your local arable farm and see how quickly you can clear a field of strawberries. Then watch these guys go at it.

The words "rural Cambridgeshire" are quite important. Ever been there? You may have done, but there is no reason to. No one lives there. So there isn't a local population desperate for the prospect of picking fruit. The migrant workers who come in, live in temporary accommodation, stay for the duration of the harvest and then either go back to Portugal or move onto another harvest, elsewhere.

So, you have a large, trained, seasonal workforce in low population areas. Take them away, there isn't really an alternative.

Brexit is making them not come, because Brexit was clearly a vote against "people coming over here and taking my job".

Most Poles who come here are skilled builders. The site down Vic Avenue where Heath House was, is pretty much being built by Poles. I've a houseful next to me. They'll be gone back to Wroclaw when they're done as they don't know if they're welcome here. Will you find stats on this? I dunno. I speak to them, its what they tell me.

And funnily enough, if you ever go to Poland (and I suggest you do, its a wonderful place), you will find a society much like ours. They're just very, very good at building things. It's not some third world **** hole. It even has highly trained, well paid social workers.
 
callan said:
However you haven't answered the point which is that highly trained staff don't utilise those skills preferring to pick fruit despite being qualified in whatever vocation...doubtless you will explain to me in the next post why it is a good idea for trained Polish social workers to pick seasonal work over using their knowledge in it's applicable field.
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Can you show me the variation of the wages of a Cambridgeshire fruit pickers vs a social worker in Warsaw?
 
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