MK Shrimper
Striker
Nothing wrong with Brawn's car of the diffuser according to those in the know. Please let this be the end of it!
-
Welcome to the ShrimperZone forums.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which only gives you limited access.
Existing Users:.
Please log-in using your existing username and password. If you have any problems, please see below.
New Users:
Join our free community now and gain access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and free. Click here to join.
Fans from other clubs
We welcome and appreciate supporters from other clubs who wish to engage in sensible discussion. Please feel free to join as above but understand that this is a moderated site and those who cannot play nicely will be quickly removed.
Assistance Required
For help with the registration process or accessing your account, please send a note using the Contact us link in the footer, please include your account name. We can then provide you with a new password and verification to get you on the site.
Brawn GP
- Thread starter steveo
- Start date
-
- Tags
- competitive
Medway Blue
Trust chairman/glutton for punishment ⭐🦐
Disagree strongly here. McLaren arguably had the best car last year. Where was Heikki Kovaleinen? In 1999, Ferrari had arguably the best car, yet when Schumacher broke his leg at Silverstone having won 2 races earlier in the season, what did Mika Salo do in exactly the same car? Nothing. Apart from win one race, what did Heinz-Harald Frentzen do in the Williams FW19, arguably one of the best F1 cars of all time, in 1997? Nothing.
It's not all about the car. Jenson Button is doing well, but he's a brilliant driver. His poor form at Honda was partly due to a dog of a car and partly due to shattered morale. Plonk, let's say, Sebastien Bourdais, 5-times CART champion, in the Brawn, and I bet you he wouldn't do as well as Button is doing.
To take away the technical aspect, the innovation, out of F1, would be to take the essence and soul, the grandiose nature, the glamour of it away. F1 is what it is, you love it or you hate it. A1GP was made for people who want identical cars. Bear in mind, though, how unsuccessful that has been so far. Forumla One is the pinnacle of technical innovation in single-seater open-wheel racing, and I like it that way. Yes it might get boring seeing one team dominate for a number of seasons, but the rules have changed the established order this season and it's great to see.
steveo
mine to stay the same please
You cant blame people for being so good. Schumacher was a master, it wasnt his fault that the others were so far behind. If they want to compete the onus is on them to catch up and improve.
Same as Woods at Golf, Taylor at Darts.
Medway Blue
Trust chairman/glutton for punishment ⭐🦐
I never said it was his fault. The onus IS on the others to improve. But that doesn't mean it wasn't boring to watch. It was bad luck that Schumacher's dominance coincided with the most processional era in F1, with next to no overtaking. It wasn't until '05 when Renault finally got it right that it got more interesting. Although '03 was good, when Montoya and Raikkonen ran Schumacher to the limit.
Kenny
Thailand Shrimper
This weekend in Shanghai is already shaping up to be interesting. McLaren have flown out a rear diffuser for Hamiltons car and it already made a drastic difference in 1st practise, Renault have also put one on Alonsos car. Ferrari have abandoned KERS this weekend and Button was again fastest this morning.
Thorpe Groyney
Open your mind
Very insightful column from F1 journalist Mark Hughes regarding Jenson after his latest win.
Renault boss Flavio Briatore, among others, has claimed that Jenson Button's success this year is down to nothing more than the speed of his car.
Briatore says Button is an indifferent driver unworthy of comparison to his double world champion Fernando Alonso - but Briatore has got that quite wrong.
Button has always been a potentially great driver. It has simply taken this long for him to get into a fully competitive car and prove it.
The 29-year-old Englishman is four races into his 10th year in Formula 1 and only now has he started to win grands prix on a regular basis.
Even with the car we had last year I saw little flashes of something exceptional from him
Ross Brawn
Team boss
Button's victory in Bahrain - his third from the first four races of the season - was that of a truly great driver at the absolute top of his game.
Starting from fourth on the grid in a car no faster than those around it - partly because of a down-on-power engine caused by a lack of cooling in the intense desert heat - his task was by no means straightforward and made severe calls on his racecraft, raw speed and consistency.
His boss Ross Brawn - the man who guided Michael Schumacher to seven world championships - was ready with the superlatives afterwards.
"Even with the car we had last year I saw little flashes of something exceptional from him and the guys on the team that had been here a few years were always telling me he was a bit special," said Brawn. "I just had not been privileged to see it on a regular basis.
"But now with a good car he is able to deliver and I think that first proper win from the front in Australia [Button won in Hungary 2006 but in an incident-packed race from the middle of the grid] has given him a confidence that has brought an extra dimension.
"His speed is quite exceptional, yet you would never know it watching him because he's so incredibly smooth."
Button's smooth style means he is deceptively fast in the car
Earlier this year, Button's team-mate Rubens Barrichello - the man who partnered Schumacher for six years at Ferrari - told Brazilian reporters that judging from what he was seeing this year, Button was as talented and skilled as Schumacher, only not as consistent.
So far this year Barrichello has been shaded just as clearly by Button as he used to be by Schumacher but in his previous two years alongside Button at Honda, they were much more evenly matched than has been the case so far this year.
The reasons for this also explain the lack of Schumacher- or Alonso-like relentlessness in Button.
It is because he has a very specific driving style that is unsuited to instability, particularly on corner entry. He needs a car with a predictable, consistent handling balance.
Give him that and he can squeeze more from it than almost any other driver.
In these circumstances he carries a huge amount of momentum into the corners, typically by coming off the brakes earlier than most, and his transition between the braking and accelerating phase are as silkily smooth as his exquisite steering and throttle inputs. He is the smoothest, most sensitive driver in F1, bar none.
Hamilton can get more out of a mediocre car, but put each of them in a good one and they would be extremely closely matched
However, give him a car in which the rear end darts nervously around under braking or which does not turn in as decisively as he needs, and he struggles. He is, in other words, fantastic in a good car, ordinary in a bad one.
He is not a swashbuckling, attacking driver in the way that Lewis Hamilton, for example, is. Hamilton can get more out of a mediocre car, as he is proving at the moment, but put each of them in a good one and they would be extremely closely matched.
Button's particular skill translates wonderfully well in the wet. This was invariably when Brawn saw those little flashes of genius last year.
When Sebastian Vettel's Toro Rosso dropped a load of oil on the circuit in Bahrain one year ago, the track was suddenly very slippery and everyone's lap times slowed drastically.
On that lap, Button was faster than anyone else by an astounding margin - in a car that was hopelessly uncompetitive in the dry.
The year before, he completed the wet opening lap of the European Grand Prix at the Nurburgring in fourth place, having started it 18th! Next time around he took a staggering three seconds out of Fernando Alonso - himself no slouch in the rain.
606: DEBATE
I hold Button in very high regard, his ultra-smooth, seemingly effortless, style is beginning to impress me - a bit like Prost but better than him especially in the wet
Ernie Beccllestone
It was a similar story during his win in the wet of Hungary 2006. Button won that race only after Alonso retired with a detached wheel.
But what was not generally appreciated was just how fast Button had been eating into Alonso's lead prior to that - about 0.5secs per lap in a less competitive car.
To put Button's success down to the excellence of this year's Brawn car is to grossly under-estimate his talent. There have been many world champions with less raw skill.
Very little to disagree with there. Button was in a car that was palpably slower than the Red Bull and, perhaps, the Toyota, but made it look like a Sunday afternoon stroll.
It should also be noted, too, that of the competing world champions, Lewis Hamilton, in a markedly inferior car, has consistently outperformed Fernando Alonso. This gives credence to the McLaren assertion before the 2007 season began that "Yes, Fernando has brought six tenths to the car, but Lewis has brought at least seven tenths".
Also, points aside, Ferrari have indeed made their worst ever start to an F1 season. On the two previous occasions where they were pointless after three races, it was at a time where no points were awarded for 7th or 8th. They finished the fourth race, both times, in 5th, gaining 2 points for their efforts, eclipsing Raikkonen's 6rh position at Bahrain.
Renault boss Flavio Briatore, among others, has claimed that Jenson Button's success this year is down to nothing more than the speed of his car.
Briatore says Button is an indifferent driver unworthy of comparison to his double world champion Fernando Alonso - but Briatore has got that quite wrong.
Button has always been a potentially great driver. It has simply taken this long for him to get into a fully competitive car and prove it.
The 29-year-old Englishman is four races into his 10th year in Formula 1 and only now has he started to win grands prix on a regular basis.
Ross Brawn
Team boss
Button's victory in Bahrain - his third from the first four races of the season - was that of a truly great driver at the absolute top of his game.
Starting from fourth on the grid in a car no faster than those around it - partly because of a down-on-power engine caused by a lack of cooling in the intense desert heat - his task was by no means straightforward and made severe calls on his racecraft, raw speed and consistency.
His boss Ross Brawn - the man who guided Michael Schumacher to seven world championships - was ready with the superlatives afterwards.
"Even with the car we had last year I saw little flashes of something exceptional from him and the guys on the team that had been here a few years were always telling me he was a bit special," said Brawn. "I just had not been privileged to see it on a regular basis.
"But now with a good car he is able to deliver and I think that first proper win from the front in Australia [Button won in Hungary 2006 but in an incident-packed race from the middle of the grid] has given him a confidence that has brought an extra dimension.
"His speed is quite exceptional, yet you would never know it watching him because he's so incredibly smooth."
Earlier this year, Button's team-mate Rubens Barrichello - the man who partnered Schumacher for six years at Ferrari - told Brazilian reporters that judging from what he was seeing this year, Button was as talented and skilled as Schumacher, only not as consistent.
So far this year Barrichello has been shaded just as clearly by Button as he used to be by Schumacher but in his previous two years alongside Button at Honda, they were much more evenly matched than has been the case so far this year.
The reasons for this also explain the lack of Schumacher- or Alonso-like relentlessness in Button.
It is because he has a very specific driving style that is unsuited to instability, particularly on corner entry. He needs a car with a predictable, consistent handling balance.
Give him that and he can squeeze more from it than almost any other driver.
In these circumstances he carries a huge amount of momentum into the corners, typically by coming off the brakes earlier than most, and his transition between the braking and accelerating phase are as silkily smooth as his exquisite steering and throttle inputs. He is the smoothest, most sensitive driver in F1, bar none.
However, give him a car in which the rear end darts nervously around under braking or which does not turn in as decisively as he needs, and he struggles. He is, in other words, fantastic in a good car, ordinary in a bad one.
He is not a swashbuckling, attacking driver in the way that Lewis Hamilton, for example, is. Hamilton can get more out of a mediocre car, as he is proving at the moment, but put each of them in a good one and they would be extremely closely matched.
Button's particular skill translates wonderfully well in the wet. This was invariably when Brawn saw those little flashes of genius last year.
When Sebastian Vettel's Toro Rosso dropped a load of oil on the circuit in Bahrain one year ago, the track was suddenly very slippery and everyone's lap times slowed drastically.
On that lap, Button was faster than anyone else by an astounding margin - in a car that was hopelessly uncompetitive in the dry.
The year before, he completed the wet opening lap of the European Grand Prix at the Nurburgring in fourth place, having started it 18th! Next time around he took a staggering three seconds out of Fernando Alonso - himself no slouch in the rain.
I hold Button in very high regard, his ultra-smooth, seemingly effortless, style is beginning to impress me - a bit like Prost but better than him especially in the wet
Ernie Beccllestone
It was a similar story during his win in the wet of Hungary 2006. Button won that race only after Alonso retired with a detached wheel.
But what was not generally appreciated was just how fast Button had been eating into Alonso's lead prior to that - about 0.5secs per lap in a less competitive car.
To put Button's success down to the excellence of this year's Brawn car is to grossly under-estimate his talent. There have been many world champions with less raw skill.
Very little to disagree with there. Button was in a car that was palpably slower than the Red Bull and, perhaps, the Toyota, but made it look like a Sunday afternoon stroll.
It should also be noted, too, that of the competing world champions, Lewis Hamilton, in a markedly inferior car, has consistently outperformed Fernando Alonso. This gives credence to the McLaren assertion before the 2007 season began that "Yes, Fernando has brought six tenths to the car, but Lewis has brought at least seven tenths".
Also, points aside, Ferrari have indeed made their worst ever start to an F1 season. On the two previous occasions where they were pointless after three races, it was at a time where no points were awarded for 7th or 8th. They finished the fourth race, both times, in 5th, gaining 2 points for their efforts, eclipsing Raikkonen's 6rh position at Bahrain.
steveo
mine to stay the same please
I thought Bugger when I heard you could get 11-2 on ManU at half time against Tottenham and I couldnt get to put a bet on.
A Century United
Highland Exile
Davros
The Whippet
McClaren have a suspended 3 race ban, to run over 12 months. A good decision.
http://msn.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5254869,00.html
http://msn.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5254869,00.html
Pubey
Guest
Sebastien Vettel is this year's breakout
star of F1. Younger than Lewis Hamilton,
and widely liked across the sport, the 21
year-old is not your run-of-the-mill
media trained automaton.
After his first F1 win last year in Italy,
a journalist said to him, "This must be the
best day of your life?"
Vettel's reply? "You obviously weren’t there
when I lost my virginity."
(Mods: seeing that this thread has basically turned into the F1 thread, fancy changing the name?)
star of F1. Younger than Lewis Hamilton,
and widely liked across the sport, the 21
year-old is not your run-of-the-mill
media trained automaton.
After his first F1 win last year in Italy,
a journalist said to him, "This must be the
best day of your life?"
Vettel's reply? "You obviously weren’t there
when I lost my virginity."
(Mods: seeing that this thread has basically turned into the F1 thread, fancy changing the name?)
Kenny
Thailand Shrimper
Despite his German-ness I do like Vettel, the other drivers lack a bit of humour and charisma. All their press conferences are almost robotic. SV spent his formative years racing over here and as result he grew to love Little Britain. During an interview last year when asked about an incident he said there had been a bit of a "kerfuffle".
Thorpe Groyney
Open your mind
If you fancy seeing how F1 drivers waste their time on a Friday the second practice session for the Spanish Grand Prix is about to begin on the BBC Sport website or the red button on the telly. Sutil is sitting out this session so ice cream and coke for him.
Thorpe Groyney
Open your mind
Forget today's race, the highlight was the interview with Kimi Raikkonen.
"Kimi, Ferrari have had their worst ever start to a season"
"I don't really care."
"In Malaysia while all the other drivers were on the grid, you were in shorts eating an ice cream."
"I do what I want."
"Do you see yourself chasing Grand Prix wins for years to come like Barrichello?"
"No."
You've got to give respect to someone who says things like that, all the while with a grin on his face and occasionally laughing.
"Kimi, Ferrari have had their worst ever start to a season"
"I don't really care."
"In Malaysia while all the other drivers were on the grid, you were in shorts eating an ice cream."
"I do what I want."
"Do you see yourself chasing Grand Prix wins for years to come like Barrichello?"
"No."
You've got to give respect to someone who says things like that, all the while with a grin on his face and occasionally laughing.
Thorpe Groyney
Open your mind
Well, well, well, now the cat is well and truly out of the bag.
Everything we thought was wrong with Formula One, the nagging suspicion that the FIA were in bed with Ferrari, was confirmed in a staggering FIA statement.
I suspect, with the Prancing Horsemen fighting tooth and nail to stop next season's salary cap (though with the cap being voluntary I cannot see what they are crying about), that the FIA has aired this particularly dirty piece of laundry in public as a bit of brinkmanship. They might well have made look Ferrari like the cheats we knew them to be - but at a cost of making themselves looking equally disgraceful.
For those of you not in the know the FIA confirmed this week that since 2005
(i) Ferrari have received the lion's share of income, more than the rest put together.
(ii) The most damning - Ferrari were allowed to veto any technical changes or rules which they felt disadvantaged them or approve any change that they knew would benefit them the most.
What can you say? It's like Man. Utd. being allowed to play with 15 players on the pitch, because they told the FA they wanted to, and then telling them that the opposition must only have 5.
This has been coming for some time. We all knew the FIA favoured Ferrari, sometimes outrageously so, but to have essentially F1 run by and for one team's benefit for the past 4 or 5 seasons leaves an unconscionable stain on the sport.
If those purporting to run the sport had even a shred of decency, they would strip Ferrari of any driver and constructor titles for the past five years and kick them out of F1 immediately.
In a sporting context Ferrari are, quite simply, scum.
Everything we thought was wrong with Formula One, the nagging suspicion that the FIA were in bed with Ferrari, was confirmed in a staggering FIA statement.
I suspect, with the Prancing Horsemen fighting tooth and nail to stop next season's salary cap (though with the cap being voluntary I cannot see what they are crying about), that the FIA has aired this particularly dirty piece of laundry in public as a bit of brinkmanship. They might well have made look Ferrari like the cheats we knew them to be - but at a cost of making themselves looking equally disgraceful.
For those of you not in the know the FIA confirmed this week that since 2005
(i) Ferrari have received the lion's share of income, more than the rest put together.
(ii) The most damning - Ferrari were allowed to veto any technical changes or rules which they felt disadvantaged them or approve any change that they knew would benefit them the most.
What can you say? It's like Man. Utd. being allowed to play with 15 players on the pitch, because they told the FA they wanted to, and then telling them that the opposition must only have 5.
This has been coming for some time. We all knew the FIA favoured Ferrari, sometimes outrageously so, but to have essentially F1 run by and for one team's benefit for the past 4 or 5 seasons leaves an unconscionable stain on the sport.
If those purporting to run the sport had even a shred of decency, they would strip Ferrari of any driver and constructor titles for the past five years and kick them out of F1 immediately.
In a sporting context Ferrari are, quite simply, scum.
ShrimperZone Sponsors
ShrimperZone - SUFC Player Sponsorship
Southend United Away Travel
All At Sea Fanzine
