Billy Paynter

[royfox]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Jan. 10 2007,12:36)]

Quote[/b] (royfox @ Jan. 10 2007,11:58)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Jan. 10 2007,11:53)]

Quote[/b] (royfox @ Jan. 10 2007,11:48)]I did hear that myself. Do you think Tilly has put his friendship with Taylor over the best interests of the club? Secondly, did he actually watch Paynter, because a Hull fan told me he wasn't up to much and couldn't get in the Hull team. It seems even Hull fans knew he was crap.

So you feel happy to judge Paynter on the basis of what a Hull fan told you, but Tilly was wrong to judge Paynter on the basis of what his ex-manager told him?

I'm saying that the general opinion of Paynter was that he couldn't cut the mustard. No matter what Taylor says I expect our manager to go and see players with his own eyes. I'm asking if that happened, or was he simply put forward because he's dating Taylor's daughter? As a fee paying punter I feel these questions need an answer, as I am contributing to Paynter's wages and I feel I've been had over.

Its not true to say the general impression at Port Vale and Hull was he wasn't up to much.

old thread

another old thread

I think it was a panic buy, but I think its libellous to suggest that it was only because he is seeing Spud's daughter. Tilly had seen him play at least once - when he caused us all sorts of problems as I stated above. Paynter was well regarded at Port Vale, and if it didn't work out at Hull - his first move away from the club he grew up at - he came with a recommendation from his Hull manager (incidentally Parkinson sold him before seeing him play). The Hull fans only saw him a handful of times and those I heard who voiced an opinion seemed to think he deserved more of a chance.

He might not have proven himself at championship level, but he did prove himself at league one level and is still only 22. Given that proven championship forwards would be out of our budget a 22 year old proven league one forward doesn't sound that unreasonable.

I'm not saying he is the answer to our problems, but I hate the way our fans are so quick to condemn our players as useless. If our "supporters" get on a player's back it will soon turn out to be a self-fulfilling prophesy when they ruin a young player's confidence.

It wasn't the information I recieved from some Hull fans.

Yesterday there was an 18yr old lad called Eti on the left-wing for Col U. He hasn't even turned Pro yet. He turned Francis inside out and even put the ball through his legs. This lad was siezing his opportunity, and you could see he was going to make it. I would swap him for Paynter tomorrow. Paynter has serious defeciences in his game, which time will not alter.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (royfox @ Jan. 10 2007,12:42)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Jan. 10 2007,12:36)]

Quote[/b] (royfox @ Jan. 10 2007,11:58)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Jan. 10 2007,11:53)]

Quote[/b] (royfox @ Jan. 10 2007,11:48)]I did hear that myself. Do you think Tilly has put his friendship with Taylor over the best interests of the club? Secondly, did he actually watch Paynter, because a Hull fan told me he wasn't up to much and couldn't get in the Hull team. It seems even Hull fans knew he was crap.

So you feel happy to judge Paynter on the basis of what a Hull fan told you, but Tilly was wrong to judge Paynter on the basis of what his ex-manager told him?

I'm saying that the general opinion of Paynter was that he couldn't cut the mustard. No matter what Taylor says I expect our manager to go and see players with his own eyes. I'm asking if that happened, or was he simply put forward because he's dating Taylor's daughter? As a fee paying punter I feel these questions need an answer, as I am contributing to Paynter's wages and I feel I've been had over.

Its not true to say the general impression at Port Vale and Hull was he wasn't up to much.

old thread

another old thread

I think it was a panic buy, but I think its libellous to suggest that it was only because he is seeing Spud's daughter. Tilly had seen him play at least once - when he caused us all sorts of problems as I stated above. Paynter was well regarded at Port Vale, and if it didn't work out at Hull - his first move away from the club he grew up at - he came with a recommendation from his Hull manager (incidentally Parkinson sold him before seeing him play). The Hull fans only saw him a handful of times and those I heard who voiced an opinion seemed to think he deserved more of a chance.

He might not have proven himself at championship level, but he did prove himself at league one level and is still only 22. Given that proven championship forwards would be out of our budget a 22 year old proven league one forward doesn't sound that unreasonable.

I'm not saying he is the answer to our problems, but I hate the way our fans are so quick to condemn our players as useless. If our "supporters" get on a player's back it will soon turn out to be a self-fulfilling prophesy when they ruin a young player's confidence.

It wasn't the information I recieved from some Hull fans.

Yesterday there was an 18yr old lad called Eti on the left-wing for Col U. He hasn't even turned Pro yet. He turned Francis inside out and even put the ball through his legs. This lad was siezing his opportunity, and you could see he was going to make it. I would swap him for Paynter tomorrow. Paynter has serious defeciences in his game, which time will not alter.

But you are judging this Eti on ONE PERFORMANCE the exact same thing you are criticising Tilly for doing when you ask how many times was Paynter watched.

Why is it that you can base your opinions on one performance and the views of a couple of Hull fans, but you lambast Tilson for basing his decision on AT LEAST the same amount of information and probably a lot, lot more?

 

[royfox]

Quote[/b] (Richard_Cadette @ Jan. 10 2007,12:38)]I don't think anyone has seen enough of Paynter to judge him properly yet, and whilst £250,000 may seem a lot of money for someone that has hardly playedI really think saying things like 'He's a donkey' and comparing him to Tony Richards is not going to help the lad is it?

I dont know what the situation is now, but he is a Northern lad, was down here staying in a hotel for a while, dont know if he still is, on his jack jones in an unfamiliar part of the country, and the next thing he knows his new 'fans' are booing him every time he touches the ball after about 3 or 4 games.

Sometimes you lot really need to take a look at yourself, and if you dont have the first clue about football, then dont bother commenting on it.

He may turn out to be a duff buy, sometimes that happens, but to have him hung, drawn and quartered after a handfall of games is contemptible.

I cant wait for him to get his place back in the side and give us a different option up front, lord knows we need some variation, and I will give him the biggest cheer I can when he comes on to try and drown out the d1ckheads who supposedly support this club.

As Neil pointed out, half of you wanted Clarkey to be dropped, given away on a free transfer and commited for crimes against football only a few weeks back, the same people who are now saying he looks a complete class act.

Give the guy some time for crying out loud - I suppose it is too much to ask that you have considered he is coming back from a pretty serious injury and has played I think once or twice before yesterday???

See Richard for blind optimism.

 

[neil]

Quote[/b] (MC BLUES @ Jan. 10 2007,12:34)]You say it makes you laugh, and therefore dismiss the possibility, that some people may have decent contacts at the Club?

You then go on to describe something you had heard from your "inside info."

Why are you right and others are wrong?

The contacts are not what make me laugh. No doubt some people have good contacts. I have none myself. I just happen to know the one thing I mentioned. I did mention it because it would suggest that a great deal of care goes into reviewing potential players.

I don't really understand your logic or the point you're trying to make. I was wondering out loud how someone discovers that Peter Taylor recommended the signing to Tilson, and, even if he did, how does that mean we never watched him?

My point was the fickleness of many football fans. As has now been discussed here, Peter Clarke would have been appearing before judges at The Hague if certain people here had their way. Let's not forget also the treatment handed out to Shaun Goater when he went through a poor patch of form; it turned out his collar bone was broken.

It is very easy to scream at a new player when he isn't producing in a team consistently losing after uprooting his life at short notice. I'm not making excuses for him, but I don't think he's been as bad as some people make out. In fact, I urge you all to watch the goals Billy Paynter has scored both for Hull and Port Vale if you can. It will give you a brief overview of the ability he does possess. Whether he can reproduce it on a regular basis...that we do not know yet.

 

[royfox]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Jan. 10 2007,12:48)]

Quote[/b] (royfox @ Jan. 10 2007,12:42)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Jan. 10 2007,12:36)]

Quote[/b] (royfox @ Jan. 10 2007,11:58)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Jan. 10 2007,11:53)]

Quote[/b] (royfox @ Jan. 10 2007,11:48)]I did hear that myself. Do you think Tilly has put his friendship with Taylor over the best interests of the club? Secondly, did he actually watch Paynter, because a Hull fan told me he wasn't up to much and couldn't get in the Hull team. It seems even Hull fans knew he was crap.

So you feel happy to judge Paynter on the basis of what a Hull fan told you, but Tilly was wrong to judge Paynter on the basis of what his ex-manager told him?

I'm saying that the general opinion of Paynter was that he couldn't cut the mustard. No matter what Taylor says I expect our manager to go and see players with his own eyes. I'm asking if that happened, or was he simply put forward because he's dating Taylor's daughter? As a fee paying punter I feel these questions need an answer, as I am contributing to Paynter's wages and I feel I've been had over.

Its not true to say the general impression at Port Vale and Hull was he wasn't up to much.

old thread

another old thread

I think it was a panic buy, but I think its libellous to suggest that it was only because he is seeing Spud's daughter. Tilly had seen him play at least once - when he caused us all sorts of problems as I stated above. Paynter was well regarded at Port Vale, and if it didn't work out at Hull - his first move away from the club he grew up at - he came with a recommendation from his Hull manager (incidentally Parkinson sold him before seeing him play). The Hull fans only saw him a handful of times and those I heard who voiced an opinion seemed to think he deserved more of a chance.

He might not have proven himself at championship level, but he did prove himself at league one level and is still only 22. Given that proven championship forwards would be out of our budget a 22 year old proven league one forward doesn't sound that unreasonable.

I'm not saying he is the answer to our problems, but I hate the way our fans are so quick to condemn our players as useless. If our "supporters" get on a player's back it will soon turn out to be a self-fulfilling prophesy when they ruin a young player's confidence.

It wasn't the information I recieved from some Hull fans.

Yesterday there was an 18yr old lad called Eti on the left-wing for Col U. He hasn't even turned Pro yet. He turned Francis inside out and even put the ball through his legs. This lad was siezing his opportunity, and you could see he was going to make it. I would swap him for Paynter tomorrow. Paynter has serious defeciences in his game, which time will not alter.

But you are judging this Eti on ONE PERFORMANCE the exact same thing you are criticising Tilly for doing when you ask how many times was Paynter watched.

Why is it that you can base your opinions on one performance and the views of a couple of Hull fans, but you lambast Tilson for basing his decision on AT LEAST the same amount of information and probably a lot, lot more?

I've seen Paynter a few times now - never impressed me.

 

[Jam_Man]

Quote[/b] (neil @ Jan. 10 2007,12:21)]Billy Paynter is a young guy who hasn't played many games for the club. Things have not started very well for him, the crowd got on his back and then he got injured. Might I suggest that you give the guy a chance?

I do hope that Paynter will develop into a decent player, however so far Ive not seen him do anything in half a dozen games that makes me think he has much potential.

With other players, like Francis, although I dont think he is the greatest player in the world I think he does have promise from the stuff that he does well.

Paynter did actually do quite well the last time I saw him, as a sub against Cardiff I think, so hopefully theres more to come from him.

I think he does need to be given a chance, but cant see how he can be used at the moment. I wouldnt drop Bradbury for him and wouldnt partner him with him either.

 

[MC BLUES]

Quote[/b] (neil @ Jan. 10 2007,12:51)]

Quote[/b] (MC BLUES @ Jan. 10 2007,12:34)]You say it makes you laugh, and therefore dismiss the possibility, that some people may have decent contacts at the Club?

You then go on to describe something you had heard from your "inside info."

Why are you right and others are wrong?

The contacts are not what make me laugh. No doubt some people have good contacts. I have none myself. I just happen to know the one thing I mentioned. I did mention it because it would suggest that a great deal of care goes into reviewing potential players.

I don't really understand your logic or the point you're trying to make. I was wondering out loud how someone discovers that Peter Taylor recommended the signing to Tilson, and, even if he did, how does that mean we never watched him?

My point was the fickleness of many football fans. As has now been discussed here, Peter Clarke would have been appearing before judges at The Hague if certain people here had their way. Let's not forget also the treatment handed out to Shaun Goater when he went through a poor patch of form; it turned out his collar bone was broken.

It is very easy to scream at a new player when he isn't producing in a team consistently losing after uprooting his life at short notice. I'm not making excuses for him, but I don't think he's been as bad as some people make out. In fact, I urge you all to watch the goals Billy Paynter has scored both for Hull and Port Vale if you can. It will give you a brief overview of the ability he does possess. Whether he can reproduce it on a regular basis...that we do not know yet.

Ok, fair enough.

 

[Angell Delight]

Quote[/b] (neil @ Jan. 10 2007,12:51)]In fact, I urge you all to watch the goals Billy Paynter has scored both for Hull and Port Vale if you can. It will give you a brief overview of the ability he does possess. Whether he can reproduce it on a regular basis...that we do not know yet.

The problem with compilations like that is that they give a biased impression of what the player is like, with all his goals lumped together it's very easy to think "wow, he's a good player" when the reality is he scores on average 5 goals per season which is pathetic for a forward. OK it's not SO bad if he's a real bruiser who unsettles defenders and creates chances for his strike partner but we've seen no evidence of that either and Freddy looked so frustrated playing with him. He doesn't have the pace, strength (and he should for a man of his build) or more importantly touch for this level of football and - unlike Clarke who I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking there was definitely something there and that he'd come good despite his initial poor form - I don't think Paynter will ever be able to play at this level as he just doesn't have the ability. He's a L1 player at best and probably more suited to L2 where I think he'd do very well. No way will we see that £200k again though.......

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ Jan. 10 2007,13:08)]when the reality is he scores on average 5 goals per season

He has scored 35 goals in 7 seasons.

But some might quibble at including the 2000-01 season when the 17 year old Paynter played 29 minutes as sub.

The 2001-02 season when as an 18 year old he made 2 starts and 6 sub appearances.

It wasn't until 2002-03, as a 19 year old that he played anything approaching regular first team football. He scored his first goal that season - one of five he scored that year.

2003-04 he scored 14 goals (still aged only aged 20) and a further 13 goals in 2004-05.

2005-06 he moved mid-season to Hull and only scored 5 goals and he struggled to get into the Hull line-up

At which point he joins us, having scored 37 goals in the last 4 seasons. Not particularly prolific, but respectable enough for a youngster and hardly the 5 goals a season you claim.

 

[SUFC_Al]

Nice investigative work there HKB

 

[Jim Coxell]

I think Paynter will leave Southend and then become a huge huge success at another club.

 

[C'mon you Blues]

I think the debate has to be not Paynter is sh!t and is a non league player (patently untrue as the statos have shown) but why is he strugging. Is it that the championship is a level too high, is it a loss of form, is it he's unsettled and living in a hotel, is it an injury, is the crowd is hostile, is he playing in a system or role he's unfamiliar with etc etc.

PS do posters seriously believe a player is offered a contract because he may or may not be in a relationship with a former player/manager's daughter.

 

[shrimper loz]

Jeez get off the lads back for christ sake. Why pick him out for a bad performance in the reserves when quite clearly the whole team played crap! As i've said before its clear that he was bought as a long term REPLACEMENT for Freddy so once Freddy has gone, you will see what he is all about. He's still only 22 for christ sake, give the lad a chance!

 

[Mick]

Quote[/b] (shrimper loz @ Jan. 10 2007,13:51)]Jeez get off the lads back for christ sake. Why pick him out for a bad performance in the reserves when quite clearly the whole team played crap! As i've said before its clear that he was bought as a long term REPLACEMENT for Freddy so once Freddy has gone, you will see what he is all about. He's still only 22 for christ sake, give the lad a chance!

22? Good heavens, I thought he was much older. His lack of athleticism when I've seen him suggested he was nearer to the end of his career than the beginning. Something has clearly gone wrong with his game but if he's only 22 I guess (hope) it's resolvable. But please don't try to tell me, as someone did, that he will blossom into a replacement for Eastwood. He looks poor value for money but that's not his fault.

 

[shrimper loz]

Quote[/b] (Mick @ Jan. 10 2007,13:56)]

Quote[/b] (shrimper loz @ Jan. 10 2007,13:51)]Jeez get off the lads back for christ sake. Why pick him out for a bad performance in the reserves when quite clearly the whole team played crap! As i've said before its clear that he was bought as a long term REPLACEMENT for Freddy so once Freddy has gone, you will see what he is all about. He's still only 22 for christ sake, give the lad a chance!

22? Good heavens, I thought he was much older. His lack of athleticism when I've seen him suggested he was nearer to the end of his career than the beginning. Something has clearly gone wrong with his game but if he's only 22 I guess (hope) it's resolvable. But please don't try to tell me, as someone did, that he will blossom into a replacement for Eastwood. He looks poor value for money but that's not his fault.

Yeah well some people were thinking exactly the same about JCR a little while ago: Unbalances the side, no end product etc and now after his recent performances he cant do a thing wrong with the fans at the moment. The same thing could happen for Paynter, he could get a chance in the team and it could all change round for him, he just needs tilly and brush to give him a bit of confidence etc.

 

[McScriven]

Apart from the fact Paynter dating Taylor's daughter is untrue and indeed has never been true.

A bit like Carl Emberson supposedly being engaged to Steve Wignall's daughter rumour when Wignall's daughter was 13!!!

 

[nnatt76]

Scriv

Theres no smoke without fire...


Well not on shrimperzone ha ha ha

 

[fredheim_holm]

Quote[/b] (Ricey @ Jan. 10 2007,11:46)]My crys of bring on BILLY PAYNTER! In the South Upper went down well on saturday LOL!

I think he is just a donkey lets face it, the new Pony Richards.

I always cheer extra loud (in the south upper too) for Paynter whenever he's named on the bench.

 

[SARF]

JCR slated as sh!te.. now probably rated better than Eastwood

Clarke.. busted his balls out of position in midfield.. slated as sh!te.. now rated better than Sodje
Paytner.. coming back from injury after playing a dozen games with a defence that I could have got into.. slated as sh!te................

 

[Mad Cyril]

I heard we signed Paynter after he had impressed Tilson in a game of Championship Manager where he spearheaded Walsall's (ultimately unsuccessful) assault on the Champions League in 2008.

I have also heard rumours that Paul Brush has been dispatched to scour the Scandinavian leagues for players with Skill, Pace, Stamina and Technique attributes greater than 15.

The man has definitely lost it.

NEWMAN IN.