48 Hours Max Work Per Week

[steveo]

The postman, the binman, the soldier...I could go on. Not everyone wants to be the next Alan Sugar - and these people deserve a decent wage and not have to work 80hrs+ to get it IM lefty HO.

So where does the extra money come from to pay all these people a "decent" wage?

It has to come from somewhere. We could start by completely stopping handouts to immigrants and their families who come here and contribute nothing. Or cutting dole payments to people who dont want to work. Or to single parent families who put themselves in the position of having more children so their benefits will increase, but i think we have travelled this road before MK, and its too near Christmas to get into a big argument about it.

 

[Aberdeen Shrimper]

We're talking small business, fair enough. But huge multi-nationals?

And why does everyone have to start a business? How about the people that do the vital jobs that keeps society ticking over? The postman, the binman, the soldier...I could go on. Not everyone wants to be the next Alan Sugar - and these people deserve a decent wage and not have to work 80hrs+ to get it IM lefty HO.

I think that certain sectors are exempt from the rule including the armed Forces.

 

[Firestorm]

I feel that this will be unenforcable regarding those who want to work extra Unpaid hours, it will be paid overtime which will be effected.
This may assist in reducing increased unemployment as if an employer has to pay someone to do the extra work, he will have to employ rather than offer overtime (over and above the additional 8 hours on a normal 40 hour week)
This may work out slightly more expensive for the employer (additional employers NI etc) and cause the odd logistical issue regarding work space, but in the current situation I don't see it being a bad thing.
At the moment the choice is fairly and squarely with the unsrupulous of the employers. He chooses to give overtime or not and in many cases when it is "offerered" there is a veil of "compulsory" in it as well. He also can pay a lower basic salary , employing less people knowing that the workers will take overtime in order to top up their salaries to a meaningful level by working extra hours.
This legislation does give the workers a bit more in the way of rights and it has the potential for increasing the labour market too.

Unfortunately it does not address the many, mainly office , workers who work many extra unpaid hours.

 

[steveo]

This may work out slightly more expensive for the employer (additional employers NI etc) and cause the odd logistical issue regarding work space, but in the current situation I don't see it being a bad thing.

Add in holiday pay, sick pay, Other expenses like phones, computers etc and “slightly more expensive” because a lot dearer. Some Companies simply cannot afford to pay more all the time.

 

[Aberdeen Shrimper]

What about those on a salary. Being asked to do extra hours or stay until the job is done is a bit tougher if you are not getting anything extra for it

 

[steveo]

What about those on a salary. Being asked to do extra hours or stay until the job is done is a bit tougher if you are not getting anything extra for it

If it means it helps the Company survive then it’s for your own benefit. If you dont want to do it, get another job.

 

[Firestorm]

Add in holiday pay, sick pay, Other expenses like phones, computers etc and “slightly more expensive” because a lot dearer. Some Companies simply cannot afford to pay more all the time.

But then surely capitalist ideology would dictate that those operating beyond their means would mean that those who cannot budget their income against their outgoings (the price they charge for their product vs the cost of production , ie wages) should fail.
Or should the working man be propping up inept financial management by sacrificing his life outside work ;)

 

[Aberdeen Shrimper]

If it means it helps the Company survive then it’s for your own benefit. If you dont want to do it, get another job.

What if it is not to help the company survive, what if the company is a government funded organisation and you are asked to stay late come in early and you are on a salary.

And when you have done that for so long and you arrive at your contracted start time you boss asks why you are late as he is so used to you arriving an hour earlier that you should be??

 

[steveo]

But then surely capitalist ideology would dictate that those operating beyond their means would mean that those who cannot budget their income against their outgoings (the price they charge for their product vs the cost of production , ie wages) should fail.
)

And they are failing. And hundreds more will fail in the New Year. Stop people working long hours, these business will struggle even more, and even more will fail.

 

[steveo]

What if it is not to help the company survive, what if the company is a government funded organisation and you are asked to stay late come in early and you are on a salary.

And when you have done that for so long and you arrive at your contracted start time you boss asks why you are late as he is so used to you arriving an hour earlier that you should be??

If this is the case, you are letting yourself be bullied and you shouldnt do. Work your hours and go home. Its simple.

 

[Aberdeen Shrimper]

If this is the case, you are letting yourself be bullied and you shouldnt do. Work your hours and go home. Its simple.

No it is not simple at all mate.

 

[Firestorm]

To be honest , I feel that there will always fors and against's in situations like this.
Personally I feel that more people would benefit from being not exploited than will lose by having their paid overtime cut.
Unfortunately those who exploit their staff are less likely to adhere to workplace protocols and are probably going to ignore the regulation as they don't feel they will get caught. (a bit like Health and Safety at work, employing illegal immigrants, cash in hand work, employing people claiming benefits etc) .

 

[osymandus]

If it means it helps the Company survive then it’s for your own benefit. If you dont want to do it, get another job.

Steveo as MK said and as your stated personal choice , who ever created the company did so for their own benifit , any owners or creators have no more divine right to exisit then the people they employ , so no sympathy there .

Our issue which this really pertains too , is too high a world population , our social models are outdated , most run on the premisi of producing as many people as possible to fit neatly into jobs that benifit the society their in .

The company provide a product , service etc , you only work longer hours to continue to provide more of your product . Maybe we need to look at why we all require our services 24 hours ??

 

[pickledseal]

I can't imagine, even taking into account school holidays, most teachers would only do 48hr working weeks....

 

[steveo]

who ever created the company did so for their own benifit , any owners or creators have no more divine right to exisit then the people they employ , so no sympathy there .

I doubt if they are looking for sympathy. But if the Company survives, the workers keep their jobs. I always get the impression that the Company owners, who are deemed as rich people, are seen as the villains, but people need to remember, if it were not for these people, the “poor” people, wouldn’t have any jobs, then the whole working week becomes irrelevant.

And I know you will say nurses, doctors, and all that stuff, but somewhere along the line there has to be firms generating an income and making profits.

 

[osymandus]

I doubt if they are looking for sympathy. But if the Company survives, the workers keep their jobs. I always get the impression that the Company owners, who are deemed as rich people, are seen as the villains, but people need to remember, if it were not for these people, the “poor” people, wouldn’t have any jobs, then the whole working week becomes irrelevant.

And I know you will say nurses, doctors, and all that stuff, but somewhere along the line there has to be firms generating an income and making profits.

Well sadly in English history thats exactly what did happen 1800's pre working rights and lawas people did control the lives of others on whims , and sadly its a presedent that remains (though thankfully in a diluted sense)

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

do it or P**s of up the road.

So you did .. but as ever you had to take things to the extreme didn't ya ;)

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

As Firestorm has rightfully pointed out, this would only affect those who are actually paid for their extra hours, and in those cases, I fully agree that there should be no restriction on hours worked.

However, despite my free market principles, I do believe that there should be some form of protection for people (mainly office workers) who find themselves working unpaid overtime as a matter of course. I recently found myself working for an organisation where anyone daring to escape from the office before 7pm was subject to hostile disapproval from management - a 13-14 hour working day was not just desired, it was expected. Work schedules like these effectively create one parent families, firstly by preventing the employee from ever seeing their children, and secondly by putting relationships under colossal pressure. I'm also certain that it's counter-productive to have people working in jobs that require concentration and brain power when they are utterly exhausted.

I would be in favour of limits on unpaid overtime - but as this is seldom recorded and not subject to taxation, how could it be policed? Governments rattle on about family values and the importance of the family unit, so I suggest that they need to find a way.

 

[steveo]

I recently found myself working for an organisation where anyone daring to escape from the office before 7pm was subject to hostile disapproval from management - a 13-14 hour working day was not just desired, it was expected

Why do people do it then? The obvious answer is so they keep their jobs but they shouldnt have to be "blackmailed" like this.

 

[osymandus]

Why do people do it then? The obvious answer is so they keep their jobs but they shouldnt have to be "blackmailed" like this.

Agreed , but as this was abused before hand its why we had teh 48 hour law come in in teh first place . Free market must accept that like everything that exisits , it has limits .