Why such a poor start?

[Smiffy]

The thing is, things haven't been well behind the scenes since the Rubin boys. There's been a raft of bad chairmen and bad managers, interspersed with managers who we get lucky with, like Tilly and Webb.

Oh I agree.

But, has the financial position ever been this worrying?

We certainly have never been in so much in debt to my knowledge. What is it now?...circa £11m or something?

I am just genuinely concerned that we are not able to meet our obligations including tax bills. One must be due about now?

And worried that IF we end up in court again, we are in huge trouble. IF it does happen, how can anyone look at us and say we are not insolvent.

All If's and but's of course. But for me it is a huge huge concern.

 

[dan_mays]

We have had such a poor start because Sturrock doesnt cut it anymore. Our style of play has been found out, why are we still playing hoofball, we have no bilel no big man anymore to win everything in the air.

2 seasons on and no improvement, its a shame we have no money because its time for a change, we lacking motivation , composure infront of goal, ideas and fitness

 

[Napster]

Oh I agree.

But, has the financial position ever been this worrying?

We certainly have never been in so much in debt to my knowledge?

That depends how you view the figures. Back when Jobson was bailed out by Maxwell, we had nothing in the future to cling to - there were murmurs of building a new stadium, but we had no cash then.

At least now, we have something vaguely concrete to aspire to.

Plus of course, the debt doesn't really mean much as long as we can keep servicing it. Man U had debts of over 600m.

 

[Jam_Man]

We have had such a poor start because Sturrock doesnt cut it anymore. Our style of play has been found out, why are we still playing hoofball, we have no bilel no big man anymore to win everything in the air.

2 seasons on and no improvement, its a shame we have no money because its time for a change, we lacking motivation , composure infront of goal, ideas and fitness

Thats not the case though, not sure why people keep saying it.

We didnt play hoofball on Saturday until we brought Cresswell on, we didnt play hoof ball the last 6 games of the league season (play offs aside).

 

[Jam_Man]

I have not mentioned about Timlin getting sent off have I?

What I am saying is, I feel there are off the field problems that are perhaps contributing to poor performances thus far, from certain individuals.

But more of a concern for me, is just how bad is our current financial state? Unless Ron or A.N. Other is putting in £100k a month, then we must really be up **** creek without a paddle. Here's hoping we are keeping the tax man happy. There must be another huge bill due about now?

You are saying whats the reason for the poor start and is it due to money.

One of the reasons for our poor start is because Timlin got sent off.

Oh I agree.

But, has the financial position ever been this worrying?

We certainly have never been in so much in debt to my knowledge?

The idea is the debts will be sorted by the stadium.

None of this is new to us, we finished with 83 points last season and were no wealthier than now. As I said its an easy thing to blame the two games on.

 

[Smiffy]

The idea is the debts will be sorted by the stadium.

None of this is new to us, we finished with 83 points last season and were no wealthier than now. As I said its an easy thing to blame the two games on.

OK I agree that perhaps pinning the poor start on off-field concerns, is perhaps a bit of an easy way out. Even though I have that niggling feeling that something is up. But, we know for a fact it takes someone to put in £100k a month to keep us afloat. Are we sure that Ron or AN Other is being so generous at present?

Lets hope so eh.

 

[Welly7]

What was working from August til January last season isn't anymore and yet Sturrock's persisting with it.

In the two full seasons back in league two the game has changed where the better teams are playing with fluidity, movement and good passing. Swindon set the tone last year who - from seeing them in September 2011 to twice early in 2012 - were totally different. Thought they were an outstanding side who had the movement and skill that I hadn't seen in that league for a long while. Streets ahead. Oxford outplayed us at Roots Hall last season, yet we got a result. Shrewsbury were a footballing side as were Crewe. And, last night Potter and Forster-Caskey were played to their strengths. Whereas our most creative player was on the bench and even those good ball players we have aren't used in a way that maximises their ability.

Percentage football isn't working and hasn't consistently since January for us. Luggy is a staunch believer in it and won't change. The league is littered with good football players who haven't made the grade at a higher level for whatever reason. As a result, the standard of good play has increased while we are still getting it forwards early from the full backs, chasing second balls and hoping to get some joy. The good football teams in this league will hurt us because they're cleverer, better and playing for managers that are embracing the changing style in the league two. Our manager simply won't.

 

[Jam_Man]

OK I agree that perhaps pinning the poor start on off-field concerns, is perhaps a bit of an easy way out. Even though I have that niggling feeling that something is up. But, we know for a fact it takes someone to put in £100k a month to keep us afloat. Are we sure that Ron or AN Other is being so generous at present?

Lets hope so eh.

Well its been a concern all summer.

As Ive said elsewhere previously we have had a couple of stable years following the money Sainsbury loaned us, but that was only meant to help run the club for 12 months.

The club is having financial issues, hence the embargo etc, but that may purely be due to the close season and the situation may improve now the season has started.

I personally dont think until players are not getting paid for months at a time (which despite some insinuating yesterday there is no reason to believe that has happened yet) that its a reasonable excuse for losing the first two games of the season.

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

Why does losing a couple of games automatically mean that the world is going to end, Ron is gonna lose his hair and everyone is going to die?

We've lost a couple of games chaps.

The first one we were completely robbed and due to us not being able to finish our dinner due to possibly first game syndrome and/or unlucky-ness.
The second one it appears the referee helped us to a difficult position.

It's like we've never lost before.

Why can't a loss just mean, 'oh **** we lost a few'.

As Jay Z once said 'Onto The Next One'

Bring on Northampton and the pre match TGI Friday's.

F*** 'em!

 

[Kevin Hogg]

What was working from August til January last season isn't anymore and yet Sturrock's persisting with it.

In the two full seasons back in league two the game has changed where the better teams are playing with fluidity, movement and good passing. Swindon set the tone last year who - from seeing them in September 2011 to twice early in 2012 - were totally different. Thought they were an outstanding side who had the movement and skill that I hadn't seen in that league for a long while. Streets ahead. Oxford outplayed us at Roots Hall last season, yet we got a result. Shrewsbury were a footballing side as were Crewe. And, last night Potter and Forster-Caskey were played to their strengths. Whereas our most creative player was on the bench and even those good ball players we have aren't used in a way that maximises their ability.

Percentage football isn't working and hasn't consistently since January for us. Luggy is a staunch believer in it and won't change. The league is littered with good football players who haven't made the grade at a higher level for whatever reason. As a result, the standard of good play has increased while we are still getting it forwards early from the full backs, chasing second balls and hoping to get some joy. The good football teams in this league will hurt us because they're cleverer, better and playing for managers that are embracing the changing style in the league two. Our manager simply won't.

Wow. I think I agree with every single word!!

As for the off-pich scenario? Obviously the debt is huge and a worry...but not to the players in the 27th minute away at Oxford United. that is just football.

As Napster stated, we have not had much financial stability since dear old Bill Rubin. Even then, I can remember shouting "Rubin Out"...because we lost a few games. It shows just how wrong a "big mouth" can be!!

 

[Jam_Man]

What was working from August til January last season isn't anymore and yet Sturrock's persisting with it.

In the two full seasons back in league two the game has changed where the better teams are playing with fluidity, movement and good passing. Swindon set the tone last year who - from seeing them in September 2011 to twice early in 2012 - were totally different. Thought they were an outstanding side who had the movement and skill that I hadn't seen in that league for a long while. Streets ahead. Oxford outplayed us at Roots Hall last season, yet we got a result. Shrewsbury were a footballing side as were Crewe. And, last night Potter and Forster-Caskey were played to their strengths. Whereas our most creative player was on the bench and even those good ball players we have aren't used in a way that maximises their ability.

Percentage football isn't working and hasn't consistently since January for us. Luggy is a staunch believer in it and won't change. The league is littered with good football players who haven't made the grade at a higher level for whatever reason. As a result, the standard of good play has increased while we are still getting it forwards early from the full backs, chasing second balls and hoping to get some joy. The good football teams in this league will hurt us because they're cleverer, better and playing for managers that are embracing the changing style in the league two. Our manager simply won't.

Yet another post that seems to miss that we have actually changed our style.

What about what was happening the last 6 games of the season when we went from 16th to 2nd in the form table ? What about Accrington when we played 442 and didnt play it long until late in the game with Cresswell.

Said it numerous times already but we have changed the way we play, we arent playing with one up front at home but are using 442, we arent simply clearing the ball from the back (unless Prosser gets it when thats all he seems able too do half the time).

Cant comment on last night but Sturrock said pre-season he was looking at playing different at home. Id therefore not be surprised to see 442 at home and one up front away at times.

 

[Hawkwell Blue]

We have had such a poor start because Sturrock doesnt cut it anymore. Our style of play has been found out, why are we still playing hoofball, we have no bilel no big man anymore to win everything in the air.

2 seasons on and no improvement, its a shame we have no money because its time for a change, we lacking motivation , composure infront of goal, ideas and fitness

Last season was a dramatic improvement on the previous one and we've played two league games so far this season.

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Bring back Gilbert.

 

[Smiffy]

Well its been a concern all summer.

As Ive said elsewhere previously we have had a couple of stable years following the money Sainsbury loaned us, but that was only meant to help run the club for 12 months.

The club is having financial issues, hence the embargo etc, but that may purely be due to the close season and the situation may improve now the season has started.

I personally dont think until players are not getting paid for months at a time (which despite some insinuating yesterday there is no reason to believe that has happened yet) that its a reasonable excuse for losing the first two games of the season.

Well exactly. And just who is now pumping in £100k a month? and are we meeting our obligations on time? Or are we using organisations such as HMRC as a "bank" again?

That is what is concerning me.

 

[Beefy]

Oh I agree.

But, has the financial position ever been this worrying?

We certainly have never been in so much in debt to my knowledge. What is it now?...circa £11m or something?

I am just genuinely concerned that we are not able to meet our obligations including tax bills. One must be due about now?

And worried that IF we end up in court again, we are in huge trouble. IF it does happen, how can anyone look at us and say we are not insolvent.

All If's and but's of course. But for me it is a huge huge concern.

Of course it's a concern. But unless you know of someone who can come in and guarantee to meet our cash flow obligations then what is the point in worrying yourself about it? We're in exactly the same position as we've been in for 15 years and will be until the day we go bust. It's also exactly the same position as almost every other club in this division, the one below it and the two above it.

We're never going to not be wholly reliant on Ron Martin or someone else to put in money every month in order for us to pay both the wage bill and the tax bill because football clubs as a business model don't generate enough cash.

I wouldn't get hung up on the debt figure. It's not primarily external debt. It's the consequence of us having to borrow cash from Directors and other parts of the group of companies.

Has the financial position ever been this worrying? No. Is it going to be more worrying next month than it is this month? Absolutely. It's our life until we're bought out by an Oligarch.

 

[Welly7]

Yet another post that seems to miss that we have actually changed our style.

What about what was happening the last 6 games of the season when we went from 16th to 2nd in the form table ? What about Accrington when we played 442 and didnt play it long until late in the game with Cresswell.

Said it numerous times already but we have changed the way we play, we arent playing with one up front at home but are using 442, we arent simply clearing the ball from the back (unless Prosser gets it when thats all he seems able too do half the time).

Cant comment on last night but Sturrock said pre-season he was looking at playing different at home. Id therefore not be surprised to see 442 at home and one up front away at times.

Where did I state that we're a long ball team only? In previous posts I've said that 'hoofball' is greatly exagerrated on here. We do pass the ball more than people think but it's sideways and goes nowhere, it hardly ever penetrates the oppositon and isn't part of our plan to get goals. Whatever anyone says, our gameplan to actually hurt the opposition is to look to play in the final third and Luggy likes to play the second ball after its been hit forwards from back to front. IMO that's not route one/hoof ball/long ball but percentages.

That style isn't working and we'll be left behind by the teams at the top if we carry on with it.

 

[Jam_Man]

Well exactly. And just who is now pumping in £100k a month? and are we meeting our obligations on time? Or are we using organisations such as HMRC as a "bank" again?

That is what is concerning me.

All we can do is hope Ron Martin/Gary Lockett is managing it.

What we need to do is not let that interfere with the football.

The club has always been skint as long as the players are being paid it should have no effect on results.

 

[DTS]

Personally dont think the side has been set up properly.

In the game I saw we had Prosser at left back (a centre back), Leonard on the wing (Not creative enough) and we generally lacked any creativity.

We are also missing our best striker and a good keeper. Personally I woud like to see a return to a 4-4-2 type formation with Straker at left back, Hall on the right and either Hurst or Martin on the left. I think that might give us more creativity as the stats on shots speak for themselves.

Cresswell at the back wtih Phillips and Smith in goal and I think that is a decent side. Throw Freddy into the mix and you are looking ok.

 

[Jam_Man]

Where did I state that we're a long ball team only? In previous posts I've said that 'hoofball' is greatly exagerrated on here. We do pass the ball more than people think but it's sideways and goes nowhere, it hardly ever penetrates the oppositon and isn't part of our plan to get goals. Whatever anyone says, our gameplan to actually hurt the opposition is to look to play in the final third and Luggy likes to play the second ball after its been hit forwards from back to front. IMO that's not route one/hoof ball/long ball but percentages.

That style isn't working and we'll be left behind by the teams at the top if we carry on with it.

Where did I say you did ? You said :

What was working from August til January last season isn't anymore and yet Sturrock's persisting with it.

Which isnt correct as the formation he was using then he isnt using now, we are playing in a different way that back then at home at least.

Do you not think that playing 442 at home against Accrinton we werent actually playing 'percentage' passes and were trying to play football then ?

Because it certainly looked to me like we were and continuing from what we were doing at the end of last season.

You are implying nothing has changed since December when there has been a clear shift in my eyes.

 

[Pubey]

Bring back Gilbert.

Really?
[video=youtube;MNZTifzpwkU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNZTifzpwkU[/video]