When will the takeover go through? The Waiting Game...

[rigsby]

@rigsby might know this answer. Is FF with planning for 1500 flats/houses worth at least 70 mill to be sold on.. I am taking the 45 mill the rat already is in debt to CBRE+ the 20 mill he promises the club +other debts he has?

I'm told the whole 1500 houses deal will be worth £100m to Ron.

The £20m will be paid to the club over 10 seasons.

Worth remembering a lot of Rons debt was paper only on the rents he charged for RH and B&L etc. If I remember correct he sold B&L to one of his companies for £500,000. Not sure how many of the houses will be on the B&L part of the land but it could be a £50m+ profit from that bit alone.

Would be interesting to know whether this latest bill had anything to do with that VAT fraud case Ron was linked to a while ago.

 

[rigsby]

In the legal profession you can chose to do your weekly shop at Harrods or you can chose to do it at Lidl. If you shop at the former it is going to costs a lot more than at the latter. Most people on a budget would chose to do the bulk at Lidl but the occasional special item at Harrods.

For some reason we were choosing to shop for all our legal services somewhere near the top end of the market.

I seem to recall several local solicitors sponsoring the club over the years - on advertising hoardings, in the programme and the like. Any of these should have been able to handle straight forward employee terminations.

To give you an example Tom Lawrence first got involved in football doing Gillingham’s legal work. The firm he worked for would have been a damn sight cheaper than a City firm like Taylor Wessing.

I’m beginning to see how the club has been operating at such a huge loss.

This level of legal expenditure is staggering for such a small business.

The lack of a CEO has almost certainly cost us more than it saved but I’m also wondering what the board were doing. Surely this level of expenditure went through the board? Between Stewarts LLP and Taylor Wessing we’ve racked up legal fees getting on to a fifth of our turnover. That’s insane.

On the basis they sponsored the zone I used Paul Robinson once for criminal case. The silk they provided was boot sale knock off standard. Had to sack him on the day of the trial. Which didn't please the judge.

Went to lunch with some city boys and they provided me an M&S firm. Not guilty in the shortest time the jury were allowed to debate. Yes you certainly get what you pay for.

 

[Holy Joe]

He may or may not have in his name any of the companies but make no mistake FF is all about him clearing his millions of debts and creating his families generational wealth. He is the ring master and every thread of every part of the FF deal winds back to him!!
DD will no doubt uncover so many twists and turns of hidden debt and cross company moving of assets attached to Martin, I just can’t see it all going back as a clean bill of health recommendation to the council

Martin Dawn doesn't appear on the structure chart in the council papers. Whilst I agree RM appears to be conducting affairs I don't think his financial health influences the scheme - remember a year or 2 ago he was shifting assets to family members - I think that was to protect everything in the event of his personal insolvency.

 

[Hadleigh Blue]

The article states ‘Taylor Wessing was engaged by Southend United Football Club on a longstanding retainer to provide employment legal services to the club, which was agreed to be paid by Martin Dawn Pl’

Therefore the club is the client. The club signed the engagement letter. The club receive the benefit of the law firms advice. The club remain ultimately liable for the expenses if Martin Dawn does not pay. Personally I believe that if they don’t get their money, we’ll be next on the claim form. They are simply trying the guarantor first. Worrying.

Considering the poorly written article, that has only been released in the media at a time when interest is high due the the other issues around the sale despite the Claim being filed in February, what evidence do we have that ‘SUFC’ signed the engagement letter? Would seem strange, I’m suspect a law firm would ensure that the letter is signed by those they are invoicing.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Personally I hope that it lands firmly with Martin Dawn and is the final nail for this company.

 

[BoyWonder2]

In the legal profession you can chose to do your weekly shop at Harrods or you can chose to do it at Lidl. If you shop at the former it is going to costs a lot more than at the latter. Most people on a budget would chose to do the bulk at Lidl but the occasional special item at Harrods.

For some reason we were choosing to shop for all our legal services somewhere near the top end of the market.

I seem to recall several local solicitors sponsoring the club over the years - on advertising hoardings, in the programme and the like. Any of these should have been able to handle straight forward employee terminations.

To give you an example Tom Lawrence first got involved in football doing Gillingham’s legal work. The firm he worked for would have been a damn sight cheaper than a City firm like Taylor Wessing.

I’m beginning to see how the club has been operating at such a huge loss.

This level of legal expenditure is staggering for such a small business.

The lack of a CEO has almost certainly cost us more than it saved but I’m also wondering what the board were doing. Surely this level of expenditure went through the board? Between Stewarts LLP and Taylor Wessing we’ve racked up legal fees getting on to a fifth of our turnover. That’s insane.

Glad to see the supermarket scenarios are catching on, much better than the buying a house one.

 

[LBBlue]

The article states ‘Taylor Wessing was engaged by Southend United Football Club on a longstanding retainer to provide employment legal services to the club, which was agreed to be paid by Martin Dawn Pl’

Therefore the club is the client. The club signed the engagement letter. The club receive the benefit of the law firms advice. The club remain ultimately liable for the expenses if Martin Dawn does not pay. Personally I believe that if they don’t get their money, we’ll be next on the claim form. They are simply trying the guarantor first. Worrying.

You would hope that somewhere along the line the External Auditors would be noticing that a large some of money was owing to a creditor and needs to be provided for in the accounts some where. A long standing retainer would of course mean it is not a one off and would come up year after year. So if there was a creditor provided in SUFC accounts then it shouldn’t be a new problem.

Otherwise you’d hope an auditor might ask “ who provides your HR legal advice and how do you pay them? “.


The last Audited accounts for Martin Dawn PLC were for the year ended Jan 2020, so they have 3 years accounts outstanding, as do SEL UK Ltd. I expect that when the engagement letter was signed Martin Dawn still owned 50% of the shares in SEL. They now own none of them. So whether there is a creditor in Martin Dawns accounts - who knows?

 

[Shr1mperBlue]

Considering the poorly written article, that has only been released in the media at a time when interest is high due the the other issues around the sale despite the Claim being filed in February, what evidence do we have that ‘SUFC’ signed the engagement letter? Would seem strange, I’m suspect a law firm would ensure that the letter is signed by those they are invoicing.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out. Personally I hope that it lands firmly with Martin Dawn and is the final nail for this company.

Nope. Client signs the letter of engagement. The rules surrounding who is classed as the client are tightly controlled from a vat and risk perspective, but one of the main deciding factors is who receives and benefits from the advice. In this case, it says it’s employment advice for the club. Martin Dawn would have signed a guarantor agreement separate from the letter engagement and that doc would have allowed them to go after either for payment. The £400k of invoices would be addressed to the club marked payable by Martin Dawn.

As LBB Blue said, we have to hope this came up in the DD carried out by the consortium and isn’t an extra debt not known of until now.

 

[Hadleigh Blue]

Thanks for clarification.

I guess as the claim was filed in Feb, and before DD commenced in March a debt of this size would have been picked up.

As I say, let’s hope that in whatever way possible the additional pressure on Ron’s failing Martin Dawn company adds to his own headache and not that of the consortium.

 

[Dutch Branch]

In the legal profession you can chose to do your weekly shop at Harrods or you can chose to do it at Lidl. If you shop at the former it is going to costs a lot more than at the latter. Most people on a budget would chose to do the bulk at Lidl but the occasional special item at Harrods.

For some reason we were choosing to shop for all our legal services somewhere near the top end of the market.

I seem to recall several local solicitors sponsoring the club over the years - on advertising hoardings, in the programme and the like. Any of these should have been able to handle straight forward employee terminations.

To give you an example Tom Lawrence first got involved in football doing Gillingham’s legal work. The firm he worked for would have been a damn sight cheaper than a City firm like Taylor Wessing.

I’m beginning to see how the club has been operating at such a huge loss.

This level of legal expenditure is staggering for such a small business.

The lack of a CEO has almost certainly cost us more than it saved but I’m also wondering what the board were doing. Surely this level of expenditure went through the board? Between Stewarts LLP and Taylor Wessing we’ve racked up legal fees getting on to a fifth of our turnover. That’s insane.

Some good points there squire, unfortunately I think Martin was the board period.

 

[Dutch Branch]

On the basis they sponsored the zone I used Paul Robinson once for criminal case. The silk they provided was boot sale knock off standard. Had to sack him on the day of the trial. Which didn't please the judge.

Went to lunch with some city boys and they provided me an M&S firm. Not guilty in the shortest time the jury were allowed to debate. Yes you certainly get what you pay for.

pay peanuts get monkeys

 

[kentblues]

I am not going to make a lot of assumptions and speculations based on the article- plenty of that already.

"IF" the bit about MD paying for work done for SUFC at least is true, then accounting treatment should have required Taylor Wessing to provide a tax invoice to Martin Dawn allowing them to pay. The other side of the transaction would be 1. MD invoice SUFC for some or all of the invoice value as appropriate and 2. SUFC will have either paid MD or it will sit as an inter-company loan (asset in MD books and liability in SUFC's). Either way it is very unlikely this wasn't picked up in DD "IF" indeed even this assumption is correct.

 

[rshepp]

If the SBC do not take the FF deal.
What then?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Would be interesting to know whether this latest bill had anything to do with that VAT fraud case Ron was linked to a while ago.

I think that was Kingsley Napley.

I seem to recall they sued him for a £200k unpaid bill last year.

 

[Streaky]

If the SBC do not take the FF deal.
What then?

Good news and bad news…

Good news - Ron won’t own the club.
Bad news - there won’t be a club.

 

[rshepp]

Thank you.

 

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

How does a club our size waste an entire years season ticket money on legal fees, with this one, and the Stewarts one, that's almost £1m Even with all the contract negation's / Sackings etc it shouldn't be anywhere near this amount.

Such a waste, and yet another example of that imbecile rat's mismanagement of the clubs finances.

 

[Streaky]

How does a club our size waste an entire years season ticket money on legal fees, with this one, and the Stewarts one, that's almost £1m Even with all the contract negation's / Sackings etc it shouldn't be anywhere near this amount.

Such a waste, and yet another example of that imbecile rat's mismanagement of the clubs finances.

100% right.

Then put yourself in SBC position- would you trust him to deliver on the FF project? I would be sceptical at best. Hopefully a proper developer takes it off his hands and he has zero involvement.

 

[flangejackrabbit]

Glad to see the supermarket scenarios are catching on, much better than the buying a house one.

I remember one forum where car analogies had become so overdone that they started handing out infractions.

 

[RHB]

So it's now the 29th May 2024, the Council are still actively involved in pressing on with their deal with Ron, the Consortium are still in the game, with no immediate signs that they are walking and there is now more pressure on Martin Dawn and thus the rat family to push on and finalise the planning approval for FF. Things are still up in the air but we are not dead yet and there appears to be a degree of optimism from the SCC Leader on DD and the Club on the season card front.

All of this says to me that I don't need to be fatalistic/suicidal about our future (yet), and you never know, by the time we reach the next High Court gig, we could well be owned by the Consortium. Bring on 'you're talking bollocks' brigade to shout me down, and lets face it the numbers in that club on here presently are at an all time high. But tomorrow is another day as they say and I may just give this thread a miss for a few days as the sun is shining at the moment..

 

[dusterman]

So it's now the 29th May 2024, the Council are still actively involved in pressing on with their deal with Ron, the Consortium are still in the game, with no immediate signs that they are walking and there is now more pressure on Martin Dawn and thus the rat family to push on and finalise the planning approval for FF. Things are still up in the air but we are not dead yet and there appears to be a degree of optimism from the SCC Leader on DD and the Club on the season card front.

All of this says to me that I don't need to be fatalistic/suicidal about our future (yet), and you never know, by the time we reach the next High Court gig, we could well be owned by the Consortium. Bring on 'you're talking bollocks' brigade to shout me down, and lets face it the numbers in that club on here presently are at an all time high. But tomorrow is another day as they say and I may just give this thread a miss for a few days as the sun is shining at the moment..

I also oddly take positives in the supporter groups lack of announced action so far. Feels like they are awaiting confirmation of something to me.