USA bad cops.

[londonblue]

I think some people here are confusing misty eyed memories of their youth with kids of today! British 12 year olds are a lot cooler these days.

I don't dispute for one minute that the American gun laws and the attitude of a lot of Americans to guns is responsible here, but I just don't think you can get away from the facts that the kid was waving a gun around in public. Unless you are a gun expert I think most people WOULD read it the way the police did, and him going for his waistband where the gun was precipitated his death. I can't believe people really are blaming the police here.

What a complete an utter load of rubbish. 12 year old boys are still 12 year old boys. I've seen plenty of them out in the street round my way playing on their bikes and carrying all sorts of toy weapons. Other than the fact that I don't like toy weapons I don't have a problem with them being children at 12 years old.

To say that a 12 year old is responsible for his own death is quite simply staggering.

 

[Jam_Man]

Different mindset over here though.

A kid walks by with a gun you are more likely to think its a toy.

Over in the states you are very likely to think its real, especially an airsoft pistol which are very realistic looking.

 

[londonblue]

Different mindset over here though.

A kid walks by with a gun you are more likely to think its a toy.

Over in the states you are very likely to think its real, especially an airsoft pistol which are very realistic looking.

That is the point I have been making. Given the difference in the gun laws it's no surprise the Police acted the way they did. With hindsight I'm sure they wished they hadn't, but I guess they couldn't take that risk.

As I said, IMO, over here the police would make the assumption that it is a toy, and act accordingly. In the US they make the assumption that it is real, and act accordingly.

This is not the child's fault, it is the fault of the gun laws in the US. The kid was being just that; a kid.

 

[mrsblue]

Darren Wilson quits the police and wants to become a teacher,This bloke is seriously nuts as he has showed no remorse at all,his version is at best dubious.

Will he be taking class with his trusty 12 gauge by his side for unruly pupils??

 

[BrettieAngell]

America just needs to ban ****ing guns!

 

[OldBlueLady]

America just needs to ban ****ing guns!

I was talking with an American friend I have on FB, she was showing a photo of a friend who had killed a huge old stag and all her friends seemed to be commenting on the meat and how well his family would be eating for a while. It's very strange to us, and I had a big debate with them, they just look at it differently to us and a number of them do need to source their meat in this way and not from a shop, as we tend to do here. I take your point absolutely, but it opened my eyes to a different way of life and one in which guns are part of their everyday life.

 

[southendkid]

Darren Wilson quits the police and wants to become a teacher,This bloke is seriously nuts as he has showed no remorse at all,his version is at best dubious.

Will he be taking class with his trusty 12 gauge by his side for unruly pupils??

This is the same Darren Wilson which a jury (which had 3 black members on it) found not guilty yes? Blame the American system for letting everyone have guns, if people feel threatened they are going to use them. No one knows if the officer's story is accurate but it matches the physical evidence given. Numerous studies have shown witness statements are extremely unreliable (some tests have involved planting stooges to talk about a fake event that happened. Researchers then asked the subjects about this fictional event and most claimed they remembered it vividly happening.) Witness statements are often unintentionally full of lies. The brain isn't designed to remember everything we see, based on the evidence Wilson cannot be found guilty.

 

[mrsblue]

This is the same Darren Wilson which a jury (which had 3 black members on it) found not guilty yes? Blame the American system for letting everyone have guns, if people feel threatened they are going to use them. No one knows if the officer's story is accurate but it matches the physical evidence given. Numerous studies have shown witness statements are extremely unreliable (some tests have involved planting stooges to talk about a fake event that happened. Researchers then asked the subjects about this fictional event and most claimed they remembered it vividly happening.) Witness statements are often unintentionally full of lies. The brain isn't designed to remember everything we see, based on the evidence Wilson cannot be found guilty.

Brown never had a gun !

Listened to an expert on policing in America where he said the use of deadly force was one thing however chasing a suspect whilst firing round after round is completely different.

7 eye witnesses gave the same account which was Brown was trying to surrender.

Wilson stated he was scared so why on earth chase Brown without back up?

In his TV interview Wilson could have said many things to appease the public yet he chose to enrage the black community further still.

 

[southendkid]

Brown never had a gun !

Listened to an expert on policing in America where he said the use of deadly force was one thing however chasing a suspect whilst firing round after round is completely different.

7 eye witnesses gave the same account which was Brown was trying to surrender.

Wilson stated he was scared so why on earth chase Brown without back up?

In his TV interview Wilson could have said many things to appease the public yet he chose to enrage the black community further still.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/these...wns-shooting-were-wildly-inconsistent-2014-11

Several 'witnesses' in court admitted they didn't actually see parts of the shooting and just filled in the blanks of their statement based off what others were saying, and these are just the witnesses that were honest enough to admit that. Others have been found to have elements to their story that are impossible which throws their story into doubt. As I said witnesses should never be used as evidence, I read a statistic that something like 75% of murder charges that were overturned once DNA evidence was introduced had the falsely convicted guy sent down because of witness testimony. Witnesses are awful sources of evidence and can not be trusted.

I'm not saying Wilson is definitely innocent but I don't see how you can say with confidence he is guilty either, and playing armchair detective with limited evidence available is why this situation has turned into a mess, because everyone has decided their version of the story is definitely correct (whether that is for the guilty or innocent verdict) and so people are protesting over something we have no way of knowing the truth about.

 

[mrsblue]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/these...wns-shooting-were-wildly-inconsistent-2014-11

Several 'witnesses' in court admitted they didn't actually see parts of the shooting and just filled in the blanks of their statement based off what others were saying, and these are just the witnesses that were honest enough to admit that. Others have been found to have elements to their story that are impossible which throws their story into doubt. As I said witnesses should never be used as evidence, I read a statistic that something like 75% of murder charges that were overturned once DNA evidence was introduced had the falsely convicted guy sent down because of witness testimony. Witnesses are awful sources of evidence and can not be trusted.

I'm not saying Wilson is definitely innocent but I don't see how you can say with confidence he is guilty either, and playing armchair detective with limited evidence available is why this situation has turned into a mess, because everyone has decided their version of the story is definitely correct (whether that is for the guilty or innocent verdict) and so people are protesting over something we have no way of knowing the truth about.

Shooting dead an unarmed human being is act of brutality without mercy and IMO unjust.

Wilson had other options yet chose to fire 11 times with 2 head shots.

For every 1000 killed by police on average 985 are declared justified whatever the circumstances.

Wilson broke police protocol firstly by grabbing Brown whilst still seated in his patrol car then secondly chasing Brown whilst firing at least 4 times.

 

[united we stand]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/these...wns-shooting-were-wildly-inconsistent-2014-11

Several 'witnesses' in court admitted they didn't actually see parts of the shooting and just filled in the blanks of their statement based off what others were saying, and these are just the witnesses that were honest enough to admit that. Others have been found to have elements to their story that are impossible which throws their story into doubt. As I said witnesses should never be used as evidence, I read a statistic that something like 75% of murder charges that were overturned once DNA evidence was introduced had the falsely convicted guy sent down because of witness testimony. Witnesses are awful sources of evidence and can not be trusted.

I'm not saying Wilson is definitely innocent but I don't see how you can say with confidence he is guilty either, and playing armchair detective with limited evidence available is why this situation has turned into a mess, because everyone has decided their version of the story is definitely correct (whether that is for the guilty or innocent verdict) and so people are protesting over something we have no way of knowing the truth about.

very late to this thread
I remember watching the below on TV a few years ago . In summary the BBC set up a mock stabbing in a pub and filmed it with multiple cameras and microphones. Real detectives then interviewed the eye witnesses who believed everything was real. The eye witnesses made multiple mistakes, some huge , some were 10% sure of what they had seen , despite the hidden cameras proving it was impossible for them to have seen what they thought they saw. None were 'lying' - their brains filled in the gaps

 

[Napster]

very late to this thread
I remember watching the below on TV a few years ago . In summary the BBC set up a mock stabbing in a pub and filmed it with multiple cameras and microphones. Real detectives then interviewed the eye witnesses who believed everything was real. The eye witnesses made multiple mistakes, some huge , some were 10% sure of what they had seen , despite the hidden cameras proving it was impossible for them to have seen what they thought they saw. None were 'lying' - their brains filled in the gaps

that's a good point.Schulz makes a similar point in her book Being Wrong which I read recently. http://beingwrongbook.com/synopsis

People's memories are deceptive and coloured by prejudice.

 

[mrsblue]

White cop cleared by another Grand Jury of choking a black man who was selling untaxed fags.4 officers were filmed taking down huge bloke and basically strangling him.

New York is preparing for further protests today.

 

[OldBlueLady]

http://rightwingnews.com/culture/white-teen-killed-black-cop-alabama-mirrors-ferguson/

Strangely, not so much outcry about this, is there?

 

[mrsblue]

http://rightwingnews.com/culture/white-teen-killed-black-cop-alabama-mirrors-ferguson/

Strangely, not so much outcry about this, is there?

Another shocking case !

The NY case has startling evidence as the black guy was seen clearly with his hands up surrendering when an officer used a method which as I understand has been outlawed by NYPD as in the chokehold.The state coroner declared it was murder yet the GJ decided it was justified.The black guy can be heard clearly telling the officer "I can't breathe" several times.

 

[Napster]

http://rightwingnews.com/culture/white-teen-killed-black-cop-alabama-mirrors-ferguson/

Strangely, not so much outcry about this, is there?

right wing news? Really?

 

[OldBlueLady]

right wing news? Really?

Only because it was the first link on Google. I knew I'd heard about it happening in the last day or two and unlike others, I don't spend my working day doing bugger all except surfing the net so it was a quick link.

 

[mrsblue]

Only because it was the first link on Google. I knew I'd heard about it happening in the last day or two and unlike others, I don't spend my working day doing bugger all except surfing the net so it was a quick link.

Hmm your 35000 posts just on here suggests otherwise:winking:

 

[dingleydangley]

Only because it was the first link on Google. I knew I'd heard about it happening in the last day or two and unlike others, I don't spend my working day doing bugger all except surfing the net so it was a quick link.

You're a bit late. They already reported this in Demagogue Monthly and The Hang 'em And Flog 'em Gazette. I think the latter were even giving away a Klu Klux Klan hood to it's regulars.

 

[Benfleet A1]

You're a bit late. They already reported this in Demagogue Monthly and The Hang 'em And Flog 'em Gazette. I think the latter were even giving away a Klu Klux Klan hood to it's regulars.

Ah sod it, I'll have to buy one now rather than getting it for nothing.