TODAY'S TROUBLES.

[Bielzibubz]

I think it's inevitable that such an atrocity on the scale of the one just averted will happen...and not in the too distant future either, and quite possibly that will be the straw that breaks the camels back as far as the vast majority of UK residents are concerned and we'll possibly see a public uprising the likes of which this country hasn't seen for many, many years.

But...isn't that exactly what the extremists want? An Intafada in this country? A war to see the Islamic flag flying over the Houses of Parliament?

 

[Sao Paulo Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (D62SUBOY @ Aug. 11 2006,15:20)]I think it's inevitable that such an atrocity on the scale of the one just averted will happen...and not in the too distant future either, and quite possibly that will be the straw that breaks the camels back as far as the vast majority of UK residents are concerned and we'll possibly see a public uprising the likes of which this country hasn't seen for many, many years.

But...isn't that exactly what the extremists want? An Intafada in this country? A war to see the Islamic flag flying over the Houses of Parliament?

Yeah but this will not only put the non Muslim Britis against these animals, but their own which will not go down too well if they where suddenly all treated badly by their once welcoming hosts and foraced out.

I dont think that would be the right idea but in desperate situations, people do desperate things remember.

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (D62SUBOY @ Aug. 11 2006,15:20)]I think it's inevitable that such an atrocity on the scale of the one just averted will happen...and not in the too distant future either, and quite possibly that will be the straw that breaks the camels back as far as the vast majority of UK residents are concerned and we'll possibly see a public uprising the likes of which this country hasn't seen for many, many years.

But...isn't that exactly what the extremists want? An Intafada in this country? A war to see the Islamic flag flying over the Houses of Parliament?

Paranoia. That won't happen in my lifetime. It's not like in the movies...

There won't be an uprising. There won't be a Islamic takeover.

This is nothing more than Islamophobia and a great underestimation of the British population, who are at least apathetic and at most, quite benevolent, and won't be dragged down to the miliaristic viewpoint you seem to have...

 

[chadded]

Quote[/b] (SARF @ Aug. 11 2006,11:17)]If, we are wanted there by part of the population (sounds like Northern Ireland) to control the country and bring about demoracy (sounds like Iraq) why are we doing it with 700 frontline troops and a handful of tanks and helicoptors.. what are we planning to control? an area the size of Basildon..
The Russians couldnt do it and its on their doorstep,We couldnt do it when we ran half the planet)..
Lets send more troops.. (mm starting to sound like Vietnam)..
Its a no win situation, something the Military should have told the Government..  
We should have people in there bribing the local leaders, keeping them sweet, letting them grow some drugs and trying to keep them out of the Cities.. Trying to change thing gradually..  Not putting 21 yr old squaddies in impossible military situations where the only solution is to withdraw (handing the Taliban a huge propoganda victory) or committing ever more troops to a Vietnam type situation..

700 frontline troops and a few choppers?
It's now an ISAF mission, and is truely multinational. Estonians, Canadians, Anericans and Danes are all over Helmand. Yes the fact we only brought out 6 Chinooks may have been an underestimate, but it happens, and we cope.

Like I said, the public want us there. They are also prepared to stand up and fight against the Taliban.

I don't believe it is a no win situation. I've seen progress being made. It will however take time.

(And then we can invade Iran from both sides)

 

[SARF]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ Aug. 11 2006,14:54)]

Quote[/b] (SARF @ Aug. 11 2006,15:47)]Yup.. make loads of dough selling military second hand stuff... Keep their heads down.. Wait.. Wait a bit more  .. Adopt moral high ground when it all goes tits up .. Wait to see who wins.. Pat them on the back and aqquire huge rebuilding contracts.. Laugh at us as we bury our soldiers.

Most of my family live in France and, believe me, they do NOT laugh at the idea of burying loved ones!! Offensive statement to make, my friend, you seem to have some sort of agenda against the French?

Sorry maybe I was being a bit too facetious there.. I was actually supporting the French and trying to point out what I think we should be doing..
I think its pretty obvious from my earlier posts in this topic just how highly I regard the lives of our Squaddies, especially compared to their current employers..
The laugh at our dead soldiers bit was maybe a sarcastic quip to far.. Maybe a ' laugh at our total buffoonery in foreign affairs that results in us f..king up the best army on the planet' would be more aprropriate..?

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (SARF @ Aug. 11 2006,16:34)]The laugh at our dead soldiers bit was maybe a sarcastic quip to far..  Maybe a ' laugh at our total buffoonery in foreign affairs that results in us f..king up the best army on the planet' would be more aprropriate..?

Perfect!

From an ex-squaddie ...

 

[SARF]

Quote[/b] (chadded @ Aug. 11 2006,15:30)]

Quote[/b] (SARF @ Aug. 11 2006,11:17)]If, we are wanted there by part of the population (sounds like Northern Ireland) to control the country and bring about demoracy (sounds like Iraq) why are we doing it with 700 frontline troops and a handful of tanks and helicoptors.. what are we planning to control? an area the size of Basildon..
The Russians couldnt do it and its on their doorstep,We couldnt do it when we ran half the planet)..
Lets send more troops.. (mm starting to sound like Vietnam)..
Its a no win situation, something the Military should have told the Government..  
We should have people in there bribing the local leaders, keeping them sweet, letting them grow some drugs and trying to keep them out of the Cities.. Trying to change thing gradually..  Not putting 21 yr old squaddies in impossible military situations where the only solution is to withdraw (handing the Taliban a huge propoganda victory) or committing ever more troops to a Vietnam type situation..

700 frontline troops and a few choppers?
It's now an ISAF mission, and is truely multinational. Estonians, Canadians, Anericans and Danes are all over Helmand. Yes the fact we only brought out 6 Chinooks may have been an underestimate, but it happens, and we cope.

Like I said, the public want us there. They are also prepared to stand up and fight against the Taliban.

I don't believe it is a no win situation. I've seen progress being made. It will however take time.

(And then we can invade Iran from both sides)  

 

Never happen.. When we eventually leave there, the place will be no better, if not worse off, than it is now..
Estonians ,Canadians and Danes armed forces ,for all their best efforts, would struggle to keep a Millwall/West Ham derby under control..
6 Chinooks being an underestimate is laughable..  20 would not be enough.. Lets hope our soldier do cope.. Underestimating the Afghanistani has been a contsant in Military history ...
As for the Public being prepared to fight.. Like most 'people' who have no real choice in th ematter as their homeland is smashed up.. They will back who promises them the most... Then when they realise those people cant back up their 'Glorious promised land scenario'.. they will switch to backing the winner.. Which funnily enough wont be us...

 

[Bielzibubz]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Aug. 11 2006,15:30)]

Quote[/b] (D62SUBOY @ Aug. 11 2006,15:20)]I think it's inevitable that such an atrocity on the scale of the one just averted will happen...and not in the too distant future either, and quite possibly that will be the straw that breaks the camels back as far as the vast majority of UK residents are concerned and we'll possibly see a public uprising the likes of which this country hasn't seen for many, many years.

But...isn't that exactly what the extremists want? An Intafada in this country? A war to see the Islamic flag flying over the Houses of Parliament?

Paranoia. That won't happen in my lifetime. It's not like in the movies...

There won't be an uprising. There won't be a Islamic takeover.

This is nothing more than Islamophobia and a great underestimation of the British population, who are at least apathetic and at most, quite benevolent, and won't be dragged down to the miliaristic viewpoint you seem to have...

Public uprising was possibly the wrong term of phrase to use. I didn't mean armed militia on the streets hunting down Muslims and burning Mosques. More mass demonstrations etc from the public the likes of which we havn't seen when they realise this is a war on terror we have no hope of winning.

I agree, Britain will never become Islamic despite the extremists intentions. I didn't say it would. I mearly stated that that is the intention of some of the extremists.

Do you not think that there will come a time when the as you say the "quite benevolent" population of this country decide they have inded had enough of these assholes that cause the atrocities we nearly witnessed yesterday?

Islamophobe? I work with three muslims and great guys they are too. Please don't turn this discussion into a slanging match.

Militaristic? I demonstated in London together with thousands of others against the stupidity and futility of the war in Iraq.

 

[chadded]

Quote[/b] (SARF @ Aug. 11 2006,14:44)]Estonians ,Canadians and Danes armed forces ,for all their best efforts, would struggle to keep a Millwall/West Ham derby under control..

Actually, they're pretty damn good. And they've got some pretty damn gucci kit, but that's another subject.

 

[SARF]

Quote[/b] (chadded @ Aug. 11 2006,16:26)]

Quote[/b] (SARF @ Aug. 11 2006,14:44)]Estonians ,Canadians and Danes armed forces ,for all their best efforts, would struggle to keep a Millwall/West Ham derby under control..

Actually, they're pretty damn good. And they've got some pretty damn gucci kit, but that's another subject.  

What all 7 of them!..

..
To be fair i am sure they are great soldiers and well trained.. But there is no substitute for experience..Our soldiers, and more importantly the people who train them, have loads..
I dont think smacking up a few pimps in Copenhagen or chasing a seal clubber on Skiddoo is going to help much in a drawn out geurilla war in the mountains and passes of Afghanistan, no matter how flash their sunglasses are ...

 

[chadded]

Quote[/b] (SARF @ Aug. 11 2006,15:58)]no matter how flash their sunglasses are ...

Didn't you know? The cooler the glasses, the better the soldier.

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (D62SUBOY @ Aug. 11 2006,16:23)]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Aug. 11 2006,15:30)]

Quote[/b] (D62SUBOY @ Aug. 11 2006,15:20)]I think it's inevitable that such an atrocity on the scale of the one just averted will happen...and not in the too distant future either, and quite possibly that will be the straw that breaks the camels back as far as the vast majority of UK residents are concerned and we'll possibly see a public uprising the likes of which this country hasn't seen for many, many years.

But...isn't that exactly what the extremists want? An Intafada in this country? A war to see the Islamic flag flying over the Houses of Parliament?

Paranoia. That won't happen in my lifetime. It's not like in the movies...

There won't be an uprising. There won't be a Islamic takeover.

This is nothing more than Islamophobia and a great underestimation of the British population, who are at least apathetic and at most, quite benevolent, and won't be dragged down to the miliaristic viewpoint you seem to have...

Public uprising was possibly the wrong term of phrase to use. I didn't mean armed militia on the streets hunting down Muslims and burning Mosques. More mass demonstrations etc from the public the likes of which we havn't seen when they realise this is a war on terror we have no hope of winning.

I agree, Britain will never become Islamic despite the extremists intentions. I didn't say it would. I mearly stated that that is the intention of some of the extremists.

Do you not think that there will come a time when the as you say the "quite benevolent" population of this country decide they have inded had enough of these assholes that cause the atrocities we nearly witnessed yesterday?

Islamophobe? I work with three muslims and great guys they are too. Please don't turn this discussion into a slanging match.

Militaristic? I demonstated in London together with thousands of others against the stupidity and futility of the war in Iraq.

OK, well, mass demonstrations maybe. But that is not the British way. More likely there will be an outbreak of queueing, or something.

But seriously, no, I don't think there'll be a time. There wasn't after 9/11 and likewise after 7/7. People look after number one first, so no, I don't believe there'll be a mass uproar.

Islamophobe - well, OK, don't use Intafada and extremism in the same sentence. P.s your argument is exactly the same as saying I'm not racist, I've got black friends....

Miliaristic - OK, maybe I've got that wrong based on your wording of public uprising.

Easy to do, isn't it? Language can be hostile.

Apologies if I've offended. Don't mean to. I just don't believe that this will lead to anything at all...

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (SARF @ Aug. 11 2006,16:44)]Estonians ,Canadians and Danes armed forces ,for all their best efforts, would struggle to keep a Millwall/West Ham derby under control.

SARF, this is clearly something you don't know anything about, mate! I served with Canadians in Bosnia ten years ago and solid chaps they were too, especially handy in the Serb v Bosniak disturbances in, amongst other places, Bihac and Banja Luka (which were, at the time, far more disturbing clashes that those that might be experienced at a Millwall / West Ham derby).  Equally the Danes are an exceptionally-drilled outfit who can certainly hold their own in a dust-up. However I don't know about the Estonians.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Aug. 11 2006,17:11)]

Quote[/b] (D62SUBOY @ Aug. 11 2006,16:23)]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Aug. 11 2006,15:30)]

Quote[/b] (D62SUBOY @ Aug. 11 2006,15:20)]I think it's inevitable that such an atrocity on the scale of the one just averted will happen...and not in the too distant future either, and quite possibly that will be the straw that breaks the camels back as far as the vast majority of UK residents are concerned and we'll possibly see a public uprising the likes of which this country hasn't seen for many, many years.

But...isn't that exactly what the extremists want? An Intafada in this country? A war to see the Islamic flag flying over the Houses of Parliament?

Paranoia. That won't happen in my lifetime. It's not like in the movies...

There won't be an uprising. There won't be a Islamic takeover.

This is nothing more than Islamophobia and a great underestimation of the British population, who are at least apathetic and at most, quite benevolent, and won't be dragged down to the miliaristic viewpoint you seem to have...

Public uprising was possibly the wrong term of phrase to use. I didn't mean armed militia on the streets hunting down Muslims and burning Mosques. More mass demonstrations etc from the public the likes of which we havn't seen when they realise this is a war on terror we have no hope of winning.

I agree, Britain will never become Islamic despite the extremists intentions. I didn't say it would. I mearly stated that that is the intention of some of the extremists.

Do you not think that there will come a time when the as you say the "quite benevolent" population of this country decide they have inded had enough of these assholes that cause the atrocities we nearly witnessed yesterday?

Islamophobe? I work with three muslims and great guys they are too. Please don't turn this discussion into a slanging match.

Militaristic? I demonstated in London together with thousands of others against the stupidity and futility of the war in Iraq.

OK, well, mass demonstrations maybe. But that is not the British way. More likely there will be an outbreak of queueing, or something.

But seriously, no, I don't think there'll be a time. There wasn't after 9/11 and likewise after 7/7. People look after number one first, so no, I don't believe there'll be a mass uproar.

Islamophobe - well, OK, don't use Intafada and extremism in the same sentence. P.s your argument is exactly the same as saying I'm not racist, I've got black friends....

Miliaristic - OK, maybe I've got that wrong based on your wording of public uprising.

Easy to do, isn't it? Language can be hostile.

Apologies if I've offended. Don't mean to. I just don't believe that this will lead to anything at all...

No probs Naps. No offence taken

The written word can easily be miscontrude as to its intentions far easier than it can when said face to face.

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ Aug. 11 2006,17:30)]

Quote[/b] (SARF @ Aug. 11 2006,16:44)]Estonians ,Canadians and Danes armed forces ,for all their best efforts, would struggle to keep a Millwall/West Ham derby under control.

Naps, this is clearly something you don't know anything about, mate! I served with Canadians in Bosnia ten years ago and solid chaps they were too, especially handy in the Serb v Bosniak disturbances in, amongst other places, Bihac and Banja Luka (which were, at the time, far more disturbing clashes that those that might be experienced at a Millwall / West Ham derby).  Equally the Danes are an exceptionally-drilled outfit who can certainly hold their own in a dust-up. However I don't know about the Estonians.

Not me!!! Check the user name!!!

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Sorry, Naps!! I even knew it wasn't you! Subliminal, subliminal!!

 

[Bielzibubz]

On the same general topic and if youv'e got a spare 90 minutes to spare I urge you to watch this video.

Loose Change

It was made by three guys with no perticular axe to grind or political motives. Just a desire to uncover the truth. It's won aclaim from many sources within the media industry for its attention to detail and its in depth research.