TODAY'S TROUBLES.

[Napster]

interestingly, some of the people arrested are converted Muslims, which leads me to believe that they were in a sense brainwashed into thinking this was a good thing to do

I don't believe the conspiracies for the simple reason that it would mean a lot of hard work, and intelligence...

furthermore, i don't believe this talk of the Bush right and the hawks and all that, because in life, one should always abide by Occam's Razor - the simplest answer is usually right - and by this I mean Bush Jnr wanted to get the Middle East for his Daddy....

 

[SARF]

Im not massive fan of the conspiracy theories.. Im sure a lot of books are written not to enlighten the public but to enrich the authors..  
A brief study of Middle East history (history not being americas strongest suit) will be enough to show you where things are going and have gone wrong.. You can see why the Arabs hate Israel and the West.. American policy and Isarali actions after WW2 created the hell hole that the middle east is now..Current policy is merely compounding the errors of the past..   Lebanon is an unwinnable war for Israel , the Arabs have learnt their lesson and wont be going Toe to Toe with a U.S. backed Israel..  Our effective support of pretty much everything since Suez has made us legitimate targets in terrorists eyes..
Religion is the means to get disenfranchized youths to do what the 'Top Boys' want them to..
Everyone took the **** out of France in the first Gulf war for being cowards by not being up for it..  turns out maybe we should have listened to some of our middle east experts rather than looking forward to a good punchup.. .
whilst the Jewish lobbby in the states remains powerful this problem aint going anywhere..  We should have simply not got involved.. Nothing to do with us mate, enjoy your war..   Built some Nuclear power station in case oil went up and Bobs your Mothers Brother

 

[SARF]

Dont even get me started on Afghanisthan.. I can see a situation where 20 or 30 of our boys get cut off and massacred.. Dosent anyone read History books any more...

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

The thing is that the politicians seriously believed that their actions would bring peace to the Middle East. Unfortunately their naivety has opened one hall of a can of worms and the world, not just the Middle East, has become a much more dangerous place to live in. The hornets nest has been poked and the hornets are bloody angry about it. They're going to sting and nothing's going to stop them. And now the politicians sit back and suggest that it's "going to take some time" and that things "can't be put right overnight". Well, they should have thought of that before they put millions of innocents people - of ALL denominations, race, creed and colour - at risk from these bloody hornets.

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ Aug. 11 2006,10:28)]The thing is that the politicians seriously believed that their actions would bring peace to the Middle East.

Retrospect's a great thing.

The first wave of modern immigration to Israel, or Aliyah (עלייה) started in 1881. Jews bought land from Ottoman and individual Arab landholders. After Jews established agricultural settlements, tensions erupted between the Jews and Arabs.

This is when it really started.

 

[chadded]

Quote[/b] (SARF @ Aug. 11 2006,09:21)]Dont even get me started on Afghanisthan..  I can see a situation where 20 or 30 of our boys get cut off and massacred.. Dosent anyone read History books any more...

We are there for good reason and the Afghan public overwhelmingly want us there. They are some of the nicest, most welcoming and peaceful people on eath. And they're Muslim.

As for 20 or 30 British troops getting their heads cut off? I doubt it.

 

[SARF]

Quote[/b] (chadded @ Aug. 11 2006,10:41)]

Quote[/b] (SARF @ Aug. 11 2006,09:21)]Dont even get me started on Afghanisthan..  I can see a situation where 20 or 30 of our boys get cut off and massacred.. Dosent anyone read History books any more...

We are there for good reason and the Afghan public overwhelmingly want us there. They are some of the nicest, most welcoming and peaceful people on eath. And they're Muslim.

As for 20 or 30 British troops getting their heads cut off? I doubt it.

If, we are wanted there by part of the population (sounds like Northern Ireland) to control the country and bring about demoracy (sounds like Iraq) why are we doing it with 700 frontline troops and a handful of tanks and helicoptors.. what are we planning to control? an area the size of Basildon..
The Russians couldnt do it and its on their doorstep,We couldnt do it when we ran half the planet)..
Lets send more troops.. (mm starting to sound like Vietnam)..
Its a no win situation, something the Military should have told the Government..
We should have people in there bribing the local leaders, keeping them sweet, letting them grow some drugs and trying to keep them out of the Cities.. Trying to change thing gradually.. Not putting 21 yr old squaddies in impossible military situations where the only solution is to withdraw (handing the Taliban a huge propoganda victory) or committing ever more troops to a Vietnam type situation..

 

[elmo putney]

I too think that with the way things are going a mass civil war will happen in our once great country.

 

[Sao Paulo Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (elmo putney @ Aug. 11 2006,12:39)]I too think that with the way things are going a mass civil war will happen in our once great country.

Then i would be back to lead the front line Elmo, Colonel Barry The Dog has a nice ring to it.

You better get on that tread mill son!

 

[Firestorm]

There was a program the other day where the BBC interviewed thousands of young British Muslims, the re was a significant number of 2nd or 3rd generation british kids who felt that their country was not doing enough for their religion.
The problem with any society which has more than one religion, is that all faiths rely on theirs being the true one (I mean there can't be more than one heaven can there ?) so there is an immediate disrespect for any other religion.
These kids also did, what a large number of teenagers do, rebel against their parents and they had a very easy target. Mum & Dad had become westernised (to the extent of giving their son a western name, Son rebels but  in a way he feels secure with, by turning to his religion adopts hard line Islamic principles and off we go.....

That said , this latest plot does appear to be Anti American as opposed to anti British. Its time we broke the back of this legacy of Reagan / Thatcher, patted Mr Bush on the head , said thank you for all that effort you finally put in during the last few months of the two world wars. Now F**k off, leave Europe alone, sort your own house out , then pehaps we might entertain your opinion on how to do things.  And whilst you have a bit more time on your hands now you don't have any foreign countries to blow up, could you have a look at the damage your population is doing to the enviroment.........

 

[Bielzibubz]

I to do not hold with the consirisory theorists versions of why we are where we are today, not all of them anyway. All I will say is the facts concerning the neo-con right wing religious and military agenda are all out in the public domain should you care to look for them.

The books I listed in a previous post are not made up of opinions from the various authors. They are full of facts. Facts that will i believe in time become the accepted truth.

 

[chaco27saf]

Quote[/b] (D62SUBOY @ Aug. 10 2006,21:28)]

Quote[/b] (steveo1 @ Aug. 10 2006,20:59)]

Quote[/b] ] How those two morons Bush and Bliar can even have the cheek to claim that the world is a safer place after the dismantling of the Saddam regime in Iraq is beyond any comprehension

and if it hadnt been dismantled? Iraq may eventually have become a nuclear power so we wouldnt have to worry about a terrorist threat anymore. Just a nuclear attack from a bloke who was always quite happy to kill his own people let alone us westerners.

Valid point concerning the nuclear theory but if it wasn't for the American administration at the time he wouldn't have had the ability to commit genocide of the Northern Kurdish community. The base chemicals were supplied by Dow Chemicals, a company with close links to Bush Snr (Dick Cheney, Bush's Chief of Staff and CEO of Dow Chemicals at the time) personally oversaw the deal that supplied those chemicals and is pictured shaking hands with Saddam Hussein. They knew exactly what he wanted those chemicals for but morality and ethics become secondary when long term agendas are at stake.

You're right, the mass genocide carried out by Saddam is all America's fault.

 

[J]

Quote[/b] (elmo putney @ Aug. 11 2006,12:39)]I too think that with the way things are going a mass civil war will happen in our once great country.

it weren't real anyway

 

[Firestorm]

Quote[/b] (chaco27saf @ Aug. 11 2006,13:58)]You're right, the mass genocide carried out by Saddam is all America's fault.

Who armed him in the first place ?

Was it the same people who armed the Taliban so they could overthrow the Russians ?

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (chaco27saf @ Aug. 11 2006,14:58)]You're right, the mass genocide carried out by Saddam is all America's fault.

... ermm ... using materials sourced from the US, Seth ...

Anyway, the whole point is that the removal of Saddam Hussein from power has totally de-stabilised the Middle East and, if you want, the whole world. The governments in the West (led by the US) were quite happy to supply his regime with arms and materials for as long as he remained a buffer against Muslim fundamentalists from Iran And Afghanistan. And he did remain a buffer zone right up to the point at which Comical Ali claimed that US tanks were not in Baghdad just as said tank rolled across the bridge behind him. Since then, Muslim extremism has had an absolute field-day in the world; there was no need to go into Iraq and now we are ALL paying the price ... the world IS a more dangerous place, our freedoms ARE being whittled away ... thanks George, thanks Tony ...

 

[chaco27saf]

Quote[/b] (Firestorm @ Aug. 11 2006,14:02)]

Quote[/b] (chaco27saf @ Aug. 11 2006,13:58)]You're right, the mass genocide carried out by Saddam is all America's fault.

Who armed him in the first place ?

Was it the same people who armed the Taliban so they could overthrow the Russians ?

I'm not defending what the United States did in the 80's, but the idea that Saddam was only able to commit genocide because of the United States is pure ignorance. Saddam had the money and the power to obtain whatever he wanted, especially after the breakup of the Soviet Union. The fact that he got the chemicals from the United States, in my opinion, does not make the US culpable, it was still Saddam who carried out the attacks.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Quote[/b] (chaco27saf @ Aug. 11 2006,13:58)]

Quote[/b] (D62SUBOY @ Aug. 10 2006,21:28)]

Quote[/b] (steveo1 @ Aug. 10 2006,20:59)]

Quote[/b] ] How those two morons Bush and Bliar can even have the cheek to claim that the world is a safer place after the dismantling of the Saddam regime in Iraq is beyond any comprehension

and if it hadnt been dismantled? Iraq may eventually have become a nuclear power so we wouldnt have to worry about a terrorist threat anymore. Just a nuclear attack from a bloke who was always quite happy to kill his own people let alone us westerners.

Valid point concerning the nuclear theory but if it wasn't for the American administration at the time he wouldn't have had the ability to commit genocide of the Northern Kurdish community. The base chemicals were supplied by Dow Chemicals, a company with close links to Bush Snr (Dick Cheney, Bush's Chief of Staff and CEO of Dow Chemicals at the time) personally oversaw the deal that supplied those chemicals and is pictured shaking hands with Saddam Hussein. They knew exactly what he wanted those chemicals for but morality and ethics become secondary when long term agendas are at stake.

You're right, the mass genocide carried out by Saddam is all America's fault.

I can understand your scepticism but ask a few questions and then gather the truth.

I didn't say it was ALL Americas fault but its a fact that America, in a deal brokered by Dick Cheney as CEO of Dow Chemicals, supplied the 21 seperate base chemicals which enabled Saddam Hussein to make and use the Sarin nerve agent that wiped out whole Kurdish communities.

I could go on for hours quoting from texts, leacked memos, video archives and such like but I won't. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I'm not going to try to convert anyone to an alternative way of thinking.

For once in my life I think I am actually grateful I don't have any kids. To think of them growing up into the world in which we are all being drawn does actually scare the life out of me.

 

[DTS]

Personally I am at breaking point. I am sick to death of people living in this great country.claiming to be British and  then trying to bring it down from the inside.

Growing up I had loads of Muslims in my school and I have always thought of them as good people - And the vast majority I am sure still are.

However the more I see the more I am starting if I am honest to dislike them. I saw a report on BBC News the other day that said a third of young Muslims beleive it is acceptable to attack the UK. There are people that live here for f%&ks sake.

The report also said that 40% want and think the UK will become a Muslim state.

I am sick to death of hearing them bleating on about a Western way of life when they choose to live here and I laugh when they say they dont feel their views are being listened too as personally being a young,white,english male it seems I may as well be a mute as no-one listens to us or our thoughts.

I have seen a lot of friends change their feelings since the London attacks and as Sau Paulo says I can see major problems ahead.

The UK seems to be increasingly isolated and races dont mix. We for example rarely ever do a Asian's mortage. Yet we do lots of Poles, South Afrians, Austalians etc etc.

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (chaco27saf @ Aug. 11 2006,15:13)]The fact that he got the chemicals from the United States, in my opinion, does not make the US culpable, it was still Saddam who carried out the attacks.

But why did they sell them to him if they thought he was a nasty piece of work? Does money come into it, perhaps?! If so, that makes the invasion of Iraq even more of a farce! And makes the US even more of a bully ...

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (Dave the Shrimper @ Aug. 11 2006,14:24)]UK seems to be increasingly isolated and races dont mix. We for example rarely ever do a Asian mortage. Yet we do lots of Poles, South Afrians, Austalians etc etc.

That's because for people from the Middle East mortgages are not allowed under Sharia Law!

Nothing to do with anything else.