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The problem is in the defense and not up front

what has happened to the team this season, we seem to have no continuity, last season at least we played well, and most of the time put 100% into the game although unlucky with results and referees. this season we have lost heart , our defence is weak, our midfield is poor and we don't even have any forwards, yet on paper we probably have one of the strongest teams in the league. i just wonder whether there are any problems with the backroom staff i.e tilly and ron

I agree with the lack of continuity part but rarely have I seen a game this season where you could question lack of effort. Tilson was perhaps lucky in his early years to have relatively few injuries to disrupt a winning side. This built continuity, confidence and team spirit. But this season, the worrying thing is it's not only injuries and suspension that have caused differences in the team sheet each week - there are too few positions where we know who our best player is, even when we have a full squad to pick from.


Richards cannot play football though. Its all very well with his no nonsence style defending but the fact is he invites pressure onto the defence again.

Can't agree with this. It's the Sodje, Prior type of no nonsense defending that we are missing so much.
 
Great post YB, nail on the head with all 4 of those points.

And before Bentley it was Pettefer who basically played as a full back or extra man in the middle.

I also think for all the energy Bailey and McCormack bring to the team, they also add a headless chicken element - we often lack shape and discipline in midfield playing them both - perhaps as they worry where the goals are coming from in the team and push forward. Combine that with Barrett and Clarke's obvious lack of positional sense & it's easy to see why we are easily pulled apart by better teams.
 
IMO the player we need in the team is Maher. He breaks up the oppositions play and creates a lot in attack. Bailey, Macca and Gower do very little in defence and without Maher in the team the defence is undermanned. He gives balance all through the team.
 
Its nothing new. Last season we needed 4 goals at home to get 3 points.

I think we have enough defensive cover in midfield. Nicky Bailey is an exceptional footballer defensively. Maybe he is having to push too far forward, but most goals aren't coming from a lack of central midfield cover.

Our problems are as follows:

1. Lack of a commanding centre-half. Ever since Sodje broke his leg at Bournemouth in March 2006 this has been a problem. Clarke and Barrett is not the solution. We might get away with it occasionally, but they've been hurting us big time. Again its no surprise to see someone like Richie Barker cause us problems.

2. Lack of someone taking command at the back. We've missed the exceptional Spencer Prior more than most have realised. Prior was fantastic in organising the defence. Barrett went where Prior told him to. Clarke and Barrett might be good at leading by example, but they can't command a back line. The situation is exacerbated by having a mute goalkeeper who can't command his 6 yard box, let alone a defence.

3. Lack of height in the rest of the team. Even if we get a tall centre-half in and an organiser, we're still vulnerable at set pieces when we've one player over 6 foot and a garden gnome in goal. Last season we tried to replace Benno with JCR, a ridiculous move which unsurprisingly left us struggling at set pieces. Its great to have players who want to pass the ball on the deck, but you've got to have players who can cope with it physically. We're too small. Hopefully Harrold and Collis will be back soon, as he'll help, but even with them back in we need more height in the team.

4. Add in the fact that the likes of Peter Clarke, Hammell and as much as it pains me to say, Barrett are defensively dodgy. Its all well and good being good on the ball, but you've got to defend first and foremost.

I apologise for repeating the same things week after week for nearly two seasons, but the same problems remain and it deeply worries me that Tilly can't see it.

No surely not YB, I can't believe my eyes, have you been at that Yorkshire Tea again? You actually sounded like you were almost criticising our manager there? :)

Believe it or not, I actually agree with a lot of what you say, first time for everything hey, apart from the bit about Collis. I agree that Collis is a much taller keeper, so in theory should give us more protection from set pieces, and be able to command his area a lot better. The problem is, he doesn't do that.

He has a height advantage on Darryl, but he simply doesn't use it to any great effect. He doesn't command his box anywhere near as well as Darryl does, and that's saying something, and he is nowhere near as vocal as Darry, and I don't believe the defence are as confident with him behind him as they are Darryl.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against Collis, he is your average League One/Two goalkeeper, but he is not, IMO, in the class of Flahavan, and I think people are too quick to suggest he is the answer purely because he has a height advantage.

As for the rest of the defensive issues, I don't believe that a purely personnel change will solve our problems. Yes, we are missing a commanding centre half, but there are more aspects to our defending than balls in the air - I don't know how many of their goals came from that route tonight, but it sounded to me like it was just as big a problem defending balls being played in on the deck!

I have said for a long time that Hammell, as much as I like him for his set pieces, and his forward runs, is a poor defender, and often gets caught out of position, or even out done by genuine pace. I don't think his anticipation is what it should be for a Championship/League One left back, and I believe he offers less than Che did in terms of pure defending - In addition, Che was better in the air.

The debate about Barrett and Clarke rages on, and much like yourself, it concerns me that T and B don't seem to be able to seperate these two. Clarke is a better defender in his own right, Barrett is a far more whole hearted player who will run through brick wals for you, both admirable qualities, but together, they make a cocktail for disaster. If it was me, I would personally opt for Clarke, as I think he is a much better defender, and then look to either try someone else, or bring in another commanding centre half before the end of January.

Finally, I suppose the one major concern I have above all of that, is what do they practise during the week when it comes to defending? Whatever it is, it simply isn't effective, and surely T and B must have noticed this by now? Last season our defence was sieve like, and there doesn't seem to have been anythng done to rectify that. I don't hold that we only conceded goals because we were in the Championship - a bad defence is a bad defence no matter what level you play at, and sooner or later, you will get found out. There seems to be an inherent lack of organisation and discipline and that can only come from what is practised during the week on the training ground, and it is high time T and B got a grip on this and did something to resolve it.
 
IMO the player we need in the team is Maher. He breaks up the oppositions play and creates a lot in attack. Bailey, Macca and Gower do very little in defence and without Maher in the team the defence is undermanned. He gives balance all through the team.

We had Maher in our team last season and still shipped 80 goals.

IMHO Bailey is actually an upgrade defensively over Maher. We still need a Mark Bentley type figure on the right. And before people suggest him, Francis has the height, but doesn't use it.

The main problem is those back 3 of Flahavan, Barrett and Clarke. No-one organises and no-one attacks crosses.
 
Thought we looked the safest with Richards and either Clarke or Barret with Collis behind them. Barret and Clarke are almost identical types of player, need the big man next to them

Well said, I have said for a while Richards should be in the side and I have always thought it should be Collis over Flavs:cool:
 
No surely not YB, I can't believe my eyes, have you been at that Yorkshire Tea again? You actually sounded like you were almost criticising our manager there? :)

Believe it or not, I actually agree with a lot of what you say, first time for everything hey, apart from the bit about Collis. I agree that Collis is a much taller keeper, so in theory should give us more protection from set pieces, and be able to command his area a lot better. The problem is, he doesn't do that.

He has a height advantage on Darryl, but he simply doesn't use it to any great effect. He doesn't command his box anywhere near as well as Darryl does, and that's saying something, and he is nowhere near as vocal as Darry, and I don't believe the defence are as confident with him behind him as they are Darryl.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against Collis, he is your average League One/Two goalkeeper, but he is not, IMO, in the class of Flahavan, and I think people are too quick to suggest he is the answer purely because he has a height advantage.

As for the rest of the defensive issues, I don't believe that a purely personnel change will solve our problems. Yes, we are missing a commanding centre half, but there are more aspects to our defending than balls in the air - I don't know how many of their goals came from that route tonight, but it sounded to me like it was just as big a problem defending balls being played in on the deck!

I have said for a long time that Hammell, as much as I like him for his set pieces, and his forward runs, is a poor defender, and often gets caught out of position, or even out done by genuine pace. I don't think his anticipation is what it should be for a Championship/League One left back, and I believe he offers less than Che did in terms of pure defending - In addition, Che was better in the air.

The debate about Barrett and Clarke rages on, and much like yourself, it concerns me that T and B don't seem to be able to seperate these two. Clarke is a better defender in his own right, Barrett is a far more whole hearted player who will run through brick wals for you, both admirable qualities, but together, they make a cocktail for disaster. If it was me, I would personally opt for Clarke, as I think he is a much better defender, and then look to either try someone else, or bring in another commanding centre half before the end of January.

Finally, I suppose the one major concern I have above all of that, is what do they practise during the week when it comes to defending? Whatever it is, it simply isn't effective, and surely T and B must have noticed this by now? Last season our defence was sieve like, and there doesn't seem to have been anythng done to rectify that. I don't hold that we only conceded goals because we were in the Championship - a bad defence is a bad defence no matter what level you play at, and sooner or later, you will get found out. There seems to be an inherent lack of organisation and discipline and that can only come from what is practised during the week on the training ground, and it is high time T and B got a grip on this and did something to resolve it.

I'm not quite sure why this is the first time you agree with me, I've been making these points repeatedly for the last 22 months.

Yes, it is a criticism of the manager. No manager is perfect, and Tilson is no exception. There isn't however another manager in England that I would rather in the job. What I want is Tilson to learn from his mistakes (I hoped he'd learnt from the Brighton debacle). I'm not prepared to criticise Tilson for half of the crap he gets stick for on her, such as making his subs too late, not signing 170 strikers, or making rational signings even if they don't work out.

Collis may not be great, but he is still an upgrade over Flahavan. Collis is more vocal than Flahavan. By vocal I mean shouting before something happens, not blaming someone after its happened. Collis may not use his height enough, but he still comes for more than Flahavan.

Che for Hammell? Its a possibility, but I'm reluctant to go down that route. I'd rather put Barrett at left-back and sign two new centre-halves. I just don't rate Clarke. He's far too error prone. It doesn't matter if he does 20 good things, if he keeps on making 1 mistake a game. In the mean time I'd play Richards, who isn't great, but he's solid. Hunt is the only defender in our team who is a natural defender. That is a real problem.
 
I'm not quite sure why this is the first time you agree with me, I've been making these points repeatedly for the last 22 months.

Obviously just wasn't listening to you :)


Collis may not be great, but he is still an upgrade over Flahavan. Collis is more vocal than Flahavan. By vocal I mean shouting before something happens, not blaming someone after its happened. Collis may not use his height enough, but he still comes for more than Flahavan.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one I'm afraid matey. For me, Collis is nowhere near as vocal as Flavs is. and I certainly wouldn't say he was an upgrade. People seem to band about the term 'shot stopper' as a criticism of a goalkeeper, but for me, I am yet to see a better one in this league, or last season in the Championship for that matter, than Flahavan.

He was also part of one of the meanest defences in the league when we won the title the year before last, including quite topically, an amazing performance at Hartlepool to earn us three points, and so if the defensive problems which are costing us now are resolved, I see no reason at all why he need be replaced.

Yes, he has his weaknesses, of course he does, otherwise he would be playing at a higher level, but I just won't accept Collis is a better option.
 
I'm not quite sure why this is the first time you agree with me, I've been making these points repeatedly for the last 22 months.

Yes, it is a criticism of the manager. No manager is perfect, and Tilson is no exception. There isn't however another manager in England that I would rather in the job. What I want is Tilson to learn from his mistakes (I hoped he'd learnt from the Brighton debacle). I'm not prepared to criticise Tilson for half of the crap he gets stick for on her, such as making his subs too late, not signing 170 strikers, or making rational signings even if they don't work out.

Collis may not be great, but he is still an upgrade over Flahavan. Collis is more vocal than Flahavan. By vocal I mean shouting before something happens, not blaming someone after its happened. Collis may not use his height enough, but he still comes for more than Flahavan.

Che for Hammell? Its a possibility, but I'm reluctant to go down that route. I'd rather put Barrett at left-back and sign two new centre-halves. I just don't rate Clarke. He's far too error prone. It doesn't matter if he does 20 good things, if he keeps on making 1 mistake a game. In the mean time I'd play Richards, who isn't great, but he's solid. Hunt is the only defender in our team who is a natural defender. That is a real problem.

Just seen the goals and it confirms that you are spouting your usual tripe, blatant holes in the defence and the tall uncommitted keeper wouldn't have got near to the goals either!
 
Well said, I have said for a while Richards should be in the side and I have always thought it should be Collis over Flavs:cool:

Collis is an amateurish juggling clown, he would not have changed the result tonight although there are bigger problems than the keepers at the moment!
 
Just seen the goals and it confirms that you are spouting your usual tripe, blatant holes in the defence and the tall uncommitted keeper wouldn't have got near to the goals either!

If you listen to what I say, we need a keeper who can help organise a defence and get rid of the blatant holes. Flahavan's lack of height, whilst not ideal, isn't so much a problem as his inability to command his penalty area. By command I don't just mean catch a cross, but also tell his defenders what to do - preferably before the event, rather than after.
 
How does Barrett not organise the defence? He screams for everyone to hold the line and get forward!

Do you think our defence is currently organised?

There's more to organising a defence than screaming "hold the line".

A younger version of a Spencer Prior, a Richard Jobson, a Rob Newman would do wonders for this defence and talk the rest of the defence through the game.
 
exatcly, it is not about just sayin hold the line and get up, it sabout talking to every player on the pitch, letting thm know what they should be doing, basically talking them through the game desfensivly. This is what we had in prior because of his expreience.

I think if we had a keeper though who talked which daryl and collis dont do enough, and certainly not loud enough i feel this problem with the defense will be less disatarous.

If u ever go to a prem league game and sit behind a goalkeeper you can hear them talking to there defense the entire game, even when they are not defending. When i sit behind daryl or collis in the south upper you can hardly hear them.

New keeper and maybe a new centre back but then didnt we sign a highly rated centre back in the summer?!?!
 

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