The EU Referendum

[yogi bear up the cagire]

would Maggie Thatcher have been pushed around so easily?

As much as I hated Thatcher, I don't for a minute believe she would have been stupid enough to have put herself in a position of defending Brexit.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Have you not considered the flip side of this, which is we will not invoke article 50 until we the UK are ready to do so?

Yes, like Merkel, I can take that. However, for everyone's sakes I hope it will be sooner than later.

 

[londonblue]

When we consider our position is strong enough to get a good deal with the EU.

Personally I shouldn't be in any hurry, despite the demand from the continent that we invoke more or less immediately.

Eh? All along we've been told we're the 5th biggest economy in the world (although we dropped to 6th the morning after the election), and we are in a very strong position to negotiate. When did that change?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

When we consider our position is strong enough to get a good deal with the EU.

Personally I shouldn't be in any hurry, despite the demand from the continent that we invoke more or less immediately.

No doubt, you are in less of a hurry than many of your fellow Brexiters.:smile:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

A couple of interesting articles from a German standpoint, in the Gruniard this morning.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...agmatic-cautious-british-character-leave-vote

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...pe-german-manufacturing-single-market-bavaria

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

So, what was it that these people said, and which parts don't you agree with? Don't just tell me that you don't believe them because they're biased.

Unfortunately that simplistic argument won the day, and we are where we are.

Tad rude? not very good for debate? failure to admit wrongs? - your posts or current Labour policy?

What did DC say? well, briefly, he said he would get EU reform and better UK position (pre referendum), he didn't get much from them did he so would you agree with that? He stated he would get immigration down to 10s of thousands, he didn't did he?

BO made valid points that the EU is/was stronger with the UK as part, it is a shame he couldn't give that message to the EU before DC got next to nothing to work with from them (horse had bolted by the time he tried to close that stable). The EU is weaker and poorer led with out the UK, militarily, no disbelief there:- surely no argument about that,.
AND where do I state I don't believe these people, (they may say things with best intentions but sometimes that doesn't make things happen)
I have stated in several places that the economies of the UK and EU will be negatively affected by Brexit, short, medium and long term AND have tempered that with an understanding of the IMF and Carney's positions.
To me that is debate rather than making aggressive text posturing about non correct postings/quotes.
Does that help?
Is being rude an indication that someone has lost the discussion and turns to more baser ways?:whistling:

 

[londonblue]

Tad rude? not very good for debate? failure to admit wrongs? - your posts or current Labour policy?

What did DC say? well, briefly, he said he would get EU reform and better UK position (pre referendum), he didn't get much from them did he so would you agree with that? He stated he would get immigration down to 10s of thousands, he didn't did he?

BO made valid points that the EU is/was stronger with the UK as part, it is a shame he couldn't give that message to the EU before DC got next to nothing to work with from them (horse had bolted by the time he tried to close that stable). The EU is weaker and poorer led with out the UK, militarily, no disbelief there:- surely no argument about that,.
AND where do I state I don't believe these people, (they may say things with best intentions but sometimes that doesn't make things happen)
I have stated in several places that the economies of the UK and EU will be negatively affected by Brexit, short, medium and long term AND have tempered that with an understanding of the IMF and Carney's positions.
To me that is debate rather than making aggressive text posturing about non correct postings/quotes.
Does that help?
Is being rude an indication that someone has lost the discussion and turns to more baser ways?:whistling:

I wasn't being rude, I was pointing out how poor your argument was. If you consider that rude then maybe it says a lot about how thin your argument is. I think you need to be a little less sensitive.

If you did believe these people then why did you vote against them? It seems a pretty sensible assumption to me.

 

[callan]

Eh? All along we've been told we're the 5th biggest economy in the world (although we dropped to 6th the morning after the election), and we are in a very strong position to negotiate. When did that change?

That hasn't changed.

However it can't be denied that if we set trade deals up outside of the EU we will be in an even stronger position.

 

[rigsby]

No doubt, you are in less of a hurry than many of your fellow Brexiters.:smile:

Why should be in a rush. The longer it drags on the weaker the EU will become, especially as other countries look to leave.

Plus it gives time for all the people who are panicking and can't accept defeat to calm down and change the bed sheets.:winking:

 

[callan]

Yes, like Merkel, I can take that. However, for everyone's sakes I hope it will be sooner than later.

Merkel doesn't have a choice in this, it is down to to the UK government to determine when negotiations will begin.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Why should be in a rush. The longer it drags on the weaker the EU will become, especially as other countries look to leave.

Plus it gives time for all the people who are panicking and can't accept defeat to calm down and change the bed sheets.:winking:

You're on good form today. Intruiged to know where all that Europhobia comes from............you didn't, by chance, have a European nanny who mistreated you as a child?

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Why should be in a rush. The longer it drags on the weaker the EU will become, especially as other countries look to leave.

Plus it gives time for all the people who are panicking and can't accept defeat to calm down and change the bed sheets.:winking:

I don't think a weaker (economically) EU is good for anyone.
Calming down and being businesslike will help all sides; which is where May and Merkal score higher than Junker and Holland.
If other countries go for an EXIT then that is their decision and the UK ought to take the neutral, non interference approach and neither encourage or try to scare.
A slower change, or adaption, is less likely to cause such big problems & issues as a rapid upheaval.
Many of the possible problems can be put down to some politicos (Holland, Junker!) wanting and needing to cause big "hits" to boost their own standings and personal agendas which can be apart from national or international benefits.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Merkel doesn't have a choice in this, it is down to to the UK government to determine when negotiations will begin.

Of course it is but it's certainly not in anyone's interests for it to drag on indeterminately.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

I don't think a weaker (economically) EU is good for anyone.
Calming down and being businesslike will help all sides; which is where May and Merkal score higher than Junker and Holland.
If other countries go for an EXIT then that is their decision and the UK ought to take the neutral, non interference approach and neither encourage or try to scare.
A slower change, or adaption, is less likely to cause such big problems & issues as a rapid upheaval.
Many of the possible problems can be put down to some politicos (Hollande, Juncker) wanting and needing to cause big "hits" to boost their own standings and personal agendas which can be apart from national or international benefits.

Some here are also s**t scared of extreme right-wing populist parties, who are DELIGHTED with the UK's Brexit vote (see the Guardian article on Le Pen, I posted yesterday) and are hoping for a successful and easy exit for the UK from the EU, in order to boost their poll ratings.

 

[callan]

Of course it is but it's certainly not in anyone's interests for it to drag on indeterminately.

No, but it would be in the EU's interest for us to do it quickly.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

No, but it would be in the majority of Brexit voters interest for us to do it quickly.

edited for accuracy

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Some here are also s**t scared of extreme right-wing populist parties, who are DELIGHTED with the UK's Brexit vote (see the Guardian article on Le Pen, I posted yesterday) and are hoping for a successful and easy exit for the UK from the EU, in order to boost their poll ratings.

Very true, and the terrorist murders, migrant crisis, farming issues, NATO security scares; not good for moderate policies in France, Germany, Greece, Turkey or the USA.

AND to make it harder.....

And France will have to try to smile and wave on Sunday when some more Brits get on the podium in Paris!

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Very true, and the terrorist murders, migrant crisis, farming issues, NATO security scares; not good for moderate policies in France, Germany, Greece, Turkey or the USA.

AND to make it harder.....

And France will have to try to smile and wave on Sunday when some more Brits get on the podium in Paris!

Missed it this year although it was only 30kms away (never far from us when it crosses the Pyrénées). Generally happy but unfortunately Sky and its association with Murdoch, somewhat dampens my enthusiasm.

 

[callan]

edited for accuracy

I voted Brexit, and want us to be in the strongest possible situation prior to invoking article 50, I don't see why anyone would want any different other than the Eu.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

I voted Brexit, and want us to be in the strongest possible situation prior to invoking article 50, I don't see why anyone would want any different other than the Eu.

the UK certainly needs to sort out what kind of relationship it wants with the EU. You can be in as strong a position as you wish prior to invoking article 50. From what I understand, once that has been done, Britain's negociating position is considerably weakened.