The EU Referendum

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

Good point, "Let's fund 100 M of it to the NHS, 100M to the police force, 100M to education, 25M to Welfare and 25M to highways" would have been a much catchier slogan. Maybe they could have bought 3 buses to make sure the slogan could fit across them all!

Anyone who thought that the 350 Million was going to the NHS was seriously deluded and easily led. If that was really the intention of the money, it would be difficult after the dust settled to justify giving all of it to the NHS and none of it to any other areas that need funding in the UK.

The arguments they made for the NHS was simply because adding all of the other various areas that also need funding would have made their points seem long and rambly. Better for them to focus in on one area to ensure that they keep their argument on track with sharp, to the point responses.

Whether it's 350M or 248M per week. It's still an awful lot of money.

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

 

[superblue24]

Wrong. I know a few "outers" who desperately regretted their vote the morning after, when Farage said that the NHS wouldn't be getting the money.

So lets dismantle this argument,

Let's say, the amount we sent to the EU WAS 350M
Let's say that the Leave camp had EVERY intention of pumping all 350 Million into the NHS
The vote is won, the money is pledged to the NHS

How many days or weeks would it be before the Police commissioner would be onto the back of Treasury asking what entitles the NHS to ALL the money and NONE for his police force?

I could go on, but I think you get my point..... I hope....

 

[MK Shrimper]

Obviously like all "good" politicians they never actually committed to anything, but people we're naive enough to believe this image.

The NHS is fundementally British and roads/police etc don't carry the weight that the NHS does when you add the above slogan. You and others may have voted out for other reasons, but a vast amount of people believed that the NHS would be getting the money.

 

[Napster]

So lets dismantle this argument,

Let's say, the amount we sent to the EU WAS 350M
Let's say that the Leave camp had EVERY intention of pumping all 350 Million into the NHS
The vote is won, the money is pledged to the NHS

How many days or weeks would it be before the Police commissioner would be onto the back of Treasury asking what entitles the NHS to ALL the money and NONE for his police force?

I could go on, but I think you get my point..... I hope....

I would hope the police commander would have negotiated before the election on this, and pointed out beforehand the ridiculousness of the situation.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

So lets dismantle this argument,

Let's say, the amount we sent to the EU WAS 350M
Let's say that the Leave camp had EVERY intention of pumping all 350 Million into the NHS
The vote is won, the money is pledged to the NHS

How many days or weeks would it be before the Police commissioner would be onto the back of Treasury asking what entitles the NHS to ALL the money and NONE for his police force?

I could go on, but I think you get my point..... I hope....

By this post and your reply me me calling me a moron, may I suggest you receive psychiatric help.

 

[superblue24]

By this post and your reply me me calling me a moron, may I suggest you receive psychiatric help.

Perhaps offering some sensible dialogue would have been a useful start to preventing my red.

Which part of my post did you disagree with? All of it, or some of it? and why?

 

[superblue24]

I would hope the police commander would have negotiated before the election on this, and pointed out beforehand the ridiculousness of the situation.

He may well have done, but would that have stopped people or even officers thinking that way?

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Obviously like all "good" politicians they never actually committed to anything, but people we're naive enough to believe this image.

The NHS is fundementally British and roads/police etc don't carry the weight that the NHS does when you add the above slogan. You and others may have voted out for other reasons, but a vast amount of people believed that the NHS would be getting the money.

And this sweeping statement of knowledge on the views' of vast amounts of people is based on what? fact, survey, guess, disdain for the intelligence of the many?
My GUESS is that vast numbers of people thought that there might be some unknown extra money going towards the NHS and that limiting migration might cut "medical migrants".
As you correctly point out others voted Leave for varied reasons.
Others read and listened, formed their own opinions, believed some spin and didn't believe some more - just like any manifesto.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Wrong. I know a few "outers" who desperately regretted their vote the morning after, when Farage said that the NHS wouldn't be getting the money.

So you know 'a few'. That doesn't make my statement wrong now does it. Mine is a guess, your stating that guess is 100% wrong and a fact. it's not.

 

[londonblue]

Politicians lie in their campaign manifestos . Heads of government lie all the time. You've been lied to by the Labour party for years and years yet you vote for them year in year out. Hypocrisy?

Personally I couldn't give a rats arse if it's £25m, £125m or by some miracle it is the full £350m. That wasn't the reason I voted leave and I would hazard a guess the vast majority of those that voted leave didn't base their decision around that one pledge either.

That's probably true in some circumstances. These people run the risk of being found out and ousted at the next election, i.e. people can be held accountable. The difference here is that there is no way to make them accountable because there is no next election. The fact that people like farridge can waltz off into the sunset and not be held accountable for their obvious lies is a bit gutting.

This is the reason I made the suggestion I did previously.

According to Bojo people didn't vote leave because of immigration, and according to you they didn't vote leave because of the ability to spend money elsewhere. So what did they vote leave for?

 

[Bielzibubz]

'We Send £350 million to The EU'

'lets fund our NHS instead'

'let's take back control'

That picture has been banded about a lot. Where does it say that all the £350 million is to go to the NHS? Sorry but I can't see it. Maybe it's the way the pic has been cropped. maybe it's the lack of personal 'quotes' to accompany it. Dunno.

It merely states let's fund the NHS. it's doesn't say by how much. Granted it implies it somewhat but come on. Am I missing something?

 

[Bielzibubz]

That's probably true in some circumstances. These people run the risk of being found out and ousted at the next election, i.e. people can be held accountable. The difference here is that there is no way to make them accountable because there is no next election. The fact that people like farridge can waltz off into the sunset and not be held accountable for their obvious lies is a bit gutting.

This is the reason I made the suggestion I did previously.

According to Bojo people didn't vote leave because of immigration, and according to you they didn't vote leave because of the ability to spend money elsewhere. So what did they vote leave for?

And like many others you take my remarks and twist them. I said some voted leave because they believed the spin, others didn't believe it. Does it really take me to point out to you why people voted to leave the EU? The vote was very personal to everyone and everyone had different reasons. I can't answer for everyone obviously, all I can do is answer for myself, which is not what you want, so I won' bother.

If you seriously think that the vast majority of those that voted leave did so purely because of the immigration issue and because of a picture of a red bus and a slogan, and 'possibly' a quote from Bojo, then you do those 17 million people an incredible disservice.

 

[MK Shrimper]

If you seriously think that the vast majority of those that voted leave did so purely because of the immigration issue and because of a picture of a red bus and a slogan, and 'possibly' a quote from Bojo, then you do those 17 million people an incredible disservice.

Then why do you think people voted leave? Plenty of vox-pops on television with people banging on about "too many immigrants taking our jobs" when free movement of people will be one thing that will have to remain if the UK wants access to the free market.

 

[rigsby]

Then why do you think people voted leave? Plenty of vox-pops on television with people banging on about "too many immigrants taking our jobs" when free movement of people will be one thing that will have to remain if the UK wants access to the free market.

Says who ?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

It was decided, it was a simple stay or leave.
What is hard to understand about that?
The politicians (most and in the UK, as the EU lot have gone into denial and teddy throwing mode)) seem to have got the result AND also are trying to understand the reasons why; with a need being to sort a Brexit that can respond to the majority of those that voted requirements: AND at the same time not further alienate and divide the "remainers".
I fail to comprehend why, when so many of the remainers believe the electorate is plum siily, that a more complicate second referendum is suggested?:headbang:

What is hard to understand is what happens next for leave.

Leave needs to put forward a plan and that plan needs to be approved or rejected.

This is not complicated.

 

[superblue24]

What is hard to understand is what happens next for leave.

Leave needs to put forward a plan and that plan needs to be approved or rejected.

This is not complicated.

So you're suggesting a referendum on every step of the way on our exit from the EU?

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

as you know I was a remain voter but as Boy George said no use crying over spilt milk, you've just got to get on with things.
There is an alternative view that we don't need and should not argue to be part of the single market. This article in the Scotsman explains and is quite interesting for an alternative view. It is possible that David Davis who is now our head of brexit negotiations agrees. We might be in a better bargaining position with the world without having to worry about the vested EU interests like the Italian tomato growers.

http://www.scotsman.com/business/ma...de-would-bring-substantial-benefits-1-4176373

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

So you're suggesting a referendum on every step of the way on our exit from the EU?

No, I'm suggesting there needs to be a democratic mandate for the direction we take.

 

[superblue24]

No, I'm suggesting there needs to be a democratic mandate for the direction we take.

Suggestions on what form that might take?

 

[londonblue]

And like many others you take my remarks and twist them. I said some voted leave because they believed the spin, others didn't believe it. Does it really take me to point out to you why people voted to leave the EU? The vote was very personal to everyone and everyone had different reasons. I can't answer for everyone obviously, all I can do is answer for myself, which is not what you want, so I won' bother.

If you seriously think that the vast majority of those that voted leave did so purely because of the immigration issue and because of a picture of a red bus and a slogan, and 'possibly' a quote from Bojo, then you do those 17 million people an incredible disservice.

So again, what did people vote for? Every time someone rubbishes an argument the answer is "well, no-one voted for that reason anyway". This isn't a dig at you specifically, it's just pointing out how ridiculous it is to say no-one voted for any reason.

I notice you don't argue with my point about accountability, which was my main point.