The EU Referendum

[Massimo Giovanni]

It wasn't settled in a referendum. Hence all the uncertainty about what we are going to do next.

And it's what we should do next that should be asked in the second referendum. May needs to come up her best plan - be it the EEA+ path (Norway) or the go it alone (Canada model) or some hybrid that the EU are actually willing to grant us (so no cherry picking the best of both) - and that plan needs to be put to the vote in a referendum with the choice of that or remain.

It was decided, it was a simple stay or leave.
What is hard to understand about that?
The politicians (most and in the UK, as the EU lot have gone into denial and teddy throwing mode)) seem to have got the result AND also are trying to understand the reasons why; with a need being to sort a Brexit that can respond to the majority of those that voted requirements: AND at the same time not further alienate and divide the "remainers".
I fail to comprehend why, when so many of the remainers believe the electorate is plum siily, that a more complicate second referendum is suggested?:headbang:

 

[Pubey]

It was decided, it was a simple stay or leave.
What is hard to understand about that?
The politicians (most and in the UK, as the EU lot have gone into denial and teddy throwing mode)) seem to have got the result AND also are trying to understand the reasons why; with a need being to sort a Brexit that can respond to the majority of those that voted requirements: AND at the same time not further alienate and divide the "remainers".
I fail to comprehend why, when so many of the remainers believe the electorate is plum siily, that a more complicate second referendum is suggested?:headbang:

A second referendum was clearly considered as a realistic option by many big businesses before the original one as part of their contingency plans.

I'm with YB - a second referendum once we have an idea of what 'leave' will actually mean, to me seems sensible. Especially now it's been revealed that the image of leave that the main proponents provided has turned out to be complete bollocks.

 

[Bielzibubz]

It wasn't settled in a referendum. Hence all the uncertainty about what we are going to do next.

And it's what we should do next that should be asked in the second referendum. May needs to come up her best plan - be it the EEA+ path (Norway) or the go it alone (Canada model) or some hybrid that the EU are actually willing to grant us (so no cherry picking the best of both) - and that plan needs to be put to the vote in a referendum with the choice of that or remain.

Seriously? You want to put the intricacies of a negotiated withdrawal from the EU and how it should be undertaken to a popular vote do you? You moan that people voted out without knowing or understanding fully the questions being put to them and in the next breath you want to give them another referendum asking them to vote on an even more complex issue. You couldn't make this **** up, really you couldn't. :hilarious:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

A second referendum was clearly considered as a realistic option by many big businesses before the original one as part of their contingency plans.

I'm with YB - a second referendum once we have an idea of what 'leave' will actually mean, to me seems sensible. Especially now it's been revealed that the image of leave that the main proponents provided has turned out to be complete bollocks.

As far as I am concerned if it is now confirmed that the NHS won't be getting an extra £350m a week then we should run the vote again. Plenty of people will have voted on the assumption that the main slogan of the Leave campaign was true as they repeated it so often.

 

[McNasty]

Let's make it best of five.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

As far as I am concerned if it is now confirmed that the NHS won't be getting an extra £350m a week then we should run the vote again. Plenty of people will have voted on the assumption that the main slogan of the Leave campaign was true as they repeated it so often.

The referendum concerned leaving the EU, not funding the NHS. You lost. Get over it.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The referendum concerned leaving the EU, not funding the NHS. You lost. Get over it.

I know you live abroad and all that but the Leave campaign gave very specific financial pledges to the NHS and to make sure all voters in the UK were aware of it they sent numerous leaflets to every household making this pledge and even emblazoned it on a big ol' bus so everyone was aware. Now they need to cough up the readies.

 

[superblue24]

I know you live abroad and all that but the Leave campaign gave very specific financial pledges to the NHS and to make sure all voters in the UK were aware of it they sent numerous leaflets to every household making this pledge and even emblazoned it on a big ol' bus so everyone was aware. Now they need to cough up the readies.

Despite the Leave rhetoric, I think the 350 Million was never actually intended for the NHS, it was more of a "could" than a "would". Besides, just because we have 350M more a week (assuming that is true) by leaving the EU, as a citizen I'm not sure I agree with all that being swallowed up by healthcare. How about schools, highways etc? Are they not entitled to a piece of the action?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Despite the Leave rhetoric, I think the 350 Million was never actually intended for the NHS, it was more of a "could" than a "would". Besides, just because we have 350M more a week (assuming that is true) by leaving the EU, as a citizen I'm not sure I agree with all that being swallowed up by healthcare. How about schools, highways etc? Are they not entitled to a piece of the action?

The two things to admit are firstly that the £350m figure was a blatant lie, and secondly they didn't use the word 'could' they said 'let's fund our NHS'. There is no work around or talk of rhetoric as it wasn't presented in those terms - it was a galvanising slogan and an election pledge that didn't even manage to survive for 24 hours after the vote, but was defended many times during. The fact that is now spoken by the Leavers but wasn't in the campaign is that:


The vote to leave the EU was built around a lie.


Your question of why the money was pledged to the NHS rather than spread over other needs is one to ask Johnson and Gove - preferably ask them a couple of weeks ago rather than now. I suspect the answer is that 1. They didn't expect to win so the figures they were using being lies wouldn't matter so much 2. They needed a snappy slogan and for it to be snappy it needed to be a bold statement and the truth was less eye catching than the lie.




The vote to leave the EU was built around a lie.






There are lots of photos of Boris Johnson standing next to the pledge and none of them contain the word 'could'.




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...million-pledge-to-fund-the-nhs-was-a-mistake/


http://www.theguardian.com/politics...23/does-the-eu-really-cost-the-uk-350m-a-week

 

[Bielzibubz]

As far as I am concerned if it is now confirmed that the NHS won't be getting an extra £350m a week then we should run the vote again. Plenty of people will have voted on the assumption that the main slogan of the Leave campaign was true as they repeated it so often.

Straws.........at............clutching much?

It's done, it's dusted, we're leaving. Accept it and move on. All this whinging and constantly looking for spurious reasons to change the result of democratically won vote is getting somewhat embarrassing now

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

The referendum concerned leaving the EU, not funding the NHS. You lost. Get over it.

I don't understand why one person would write this them 3 people would 'like' it.
It is as if they are saying that they like being lied to. The funding of the NHS was the main selling point to leave the EU according to the prominence of that pledge on their campaign literature. How could you 'like' someone saying it's not about the NHS when the campaign was built around the NHS?

 

[Bielzibubz]

The two things to admit are firstly that the £350m figure was a blatant lie, and secondly they didn't use the word 'could' they said 'let's fund our NHS'. There is no work around or talk of rhetoric as it wasn't presented in those terms - it was a galvanising slogan and an election pledge that didn't even manage to survive for 24 hours after the vote, but was defended many times during. The fact that is now spoken by the Leavers but wasn't in the campaign is that:


The vote to leave the EU was built around a lie.


Your question of why the money was pledged to the NHS rather than spread over other needs is one to ask Johnson and Gove - preferably ask them a couple of weeks ago rather than now. I suspect the answer is that 1. They didn't expect to win so the figures they were using being lies wouldn't matter so much 2. They needed a snappy slogan and for it to be snappy it needed to be a bold statement and the truth was less eye catching than the lie.




The vote to leave the EU was built around a lie.






There are lots of photos of Boris Johnson standing next to the pledge and none of them contain the word 'could'.




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...million-pledge-to-fund-the-nhs-was-a-mistake/


http://www.theguardian.com/politics...23/does-the-eu-really-cost-the-uk-350m-a-week

Oh for crying out loud. A second referendum, for whatever reason, is NOT going to happen. Accept it and move on otherwise it's going to eat away at you and destroy your life :winking:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Straws.........at............clutching much?

It's done, it's dusted, we're leaving. Accept it and move on. All this whinging and constantly looking for spurious reasons to change the result of democratically won vote is getting somewhat embarrassing now

Questioning 'facts' is now classed as clutching at straws?!!

If it is done and dusted and we should move on when are you bothering to read and post on this thread.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I don't understand why one person would write this them 3 people would 'like' it.
It is as if they are saying that they like being lied to. The funding of the NHS was the main selling point to leave the EU according to the prominence of that pledge on their campaign literature. How could you 'like' someone saying it's not about the NHS when the campaign was built around the NHS?

Politicians lie in their campaign manifestos . Heads of government lie all the time. You've been lied to by the Labour party for years and years yet you vote for them year in year out. Hypocrisy?

Personally I couldn't give a rats arse if it's £25m, £125m or by some miracle it is the full £350m. That wasn't the reason I voted leave and I would hazard a guess the vast majority of those that voted leave didn't base their decision around that one pledge either.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Questioning 'facts' is now classed as clutching at straws?!!

If it is done and dusted and we should move on when are you bothering to read and post on this thread.

Whether it was a lie or not you're using it to justify something that won't happen. ie Clutching at straws.

And I read and post on here because I find it amusing that some, a select few, just cannot accept what has happened and will do almost anything to vent their collective frustration at the result.

 

[superblue24]

The two things to admit are firstly that the £350m figure was a blatant lie, and secondly they didn't use the word 'could' they said 'let's fund our NHS'. There is no work around or talk of rhetoric as it wasn't presented in those terms - it was a galvanising slogan and an election pledge that didn't even manage to survive for 24 hours after the vote, but was defended many times during. The fact that is now spoken by the Leavers but wasn't in the campaign is that:


The vote to leave the EU was built around a lie.


Your question of why the money was pledged to the NHS rather than spread over other needs is one to ask Johnson and Gove - preferably ask them a couple of weeks ago rather than now. I suspect the answer is that 1. They didn't expect to win so the figures they were using being lies wouldn't matter so much 2. They needed a snappy slogan and for it to be snappy it needed to be a bold statement and the truth was less eye catching than the lie.




The vote to leave the EU was built around a lie.






There are lots of photos of Boris Johnson standing next to the pledge and none of them contain the word 'could'.




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...million-pledge-to-fund-the-nhs-was-a-mistake/


http://www.theguardian.com/politics...23/does-the-eu-really-cost-the-uk-350m-a-week

Good point, "Let's fund 100 M of it to the NHS, 100M to the police force, 100M to education, 25M to Welfare and 25M to highways" would have been a much catchier slogan. Maybe they could have bought 3 buses to make sure the slogan could fit across them all!

Anyone who thought that the 350 Million was going to the NHS was seriously deluded and easily led. If that was really the intention of the money, it would be difficult after the dust settled to justify giving all of it to the NHS and none of it to any other areas that need funding in the UK.

The arguments they made for the NHS was simply because adding all of the other various areas that also need funding would have made their points seem long and rambly. Better for them to focus in on one area to ensure that they keep their argument on track with sharp, to the point responses.

Whether it's 350M or 248M per week. It's still an awful lot of money.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Some people have such low expectations.


1. It's done get over it
2. Yes the Leave campaign lied but politicians often lie
3. Let's split the money (it doesn't exist) over other expenditure not just the NHS (but that's not what they promised) like education and the police (PM May slashed their budget so they have some catching up to do)
4. The promise they should have made wouldn't fit on the side of a bus therefore this one is justified as it's less rambly
5. Anyone who believed the lie is deluded and easily led
6. The figures used are totally incorrect but the real ones are still a lot of money!


I must say I am fairly gobsmacked as these attitudes.

 

[Supernaut]

I think the bottom line is this - would enough people have voted differently if;

1. They knew for a fact that the main Leave campaigners wouldn't have any role at all in the referendum fallout or Brexit negotiations

2. They knew for a fact that the Leave campaign's claims about NHS funding and net migration were false

I honestly think that enough people would have been swayed in favour of Remain. Perhaps not that many, I reckon we'd have seen an equally close result, but enough to swing it. I could be wrong though - a hell of a lot of people seem to have voted Leave in order to upset the status quo, cause a shake-up, and to flick 2 fingers to the political class.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Politicians lie in their campaign manifestos . Heads of government lie all the time. You've been lied to by the Labour party for years and years yet you vote for them year in year out. Hypocrisy?

Personally I couldn't give a rats arse if it's £25m, £125m or by some miracle it is the full £350m. That wasn't the reason I voted leave and I would hazard a guess the vast majority of those that voted leave didn't base their decision around that one pledge either.

Wrong. I know a few "outers" who desperately regretted their vote the morning after, when Farage said that the NHS wouldn't be getting the money.

 

[superblue24]

Some people have such low expectations.


1. It's done get over it
2. Yes the Leave campaign lied but politicians often lie
3. Let's split the money (it doesn't exist) over other expenditure not just the NHS (but that's not what they promised) like education and the police (PM May slashed their budget so they have some catching up to do)
4. The promise they should have made wouldn't fit on the side of a bus therefore this one is justified as it's less rambly
5. Anyone who believed the lie is deluded and easily led
6. The figures used are totally incorrect but the real ones are still a lot of money!


I must say I am fairly gobsmacked as these attitudes.

I'm gobsmacked that you're such a bad loser that you are totally incapable of acknowledging the result of a REFERENDUM.

Get over it, it's done. Go and have a Falafel Crackerbread with a cold spinach shake to calm down.