The EU Referendum

[Bielzibubz]

The tone of your reply to Naps was pretty *****. I'm sure it is within all our capabilities to play nicely.

We've got some pretty hot topics on the Zone at the moment and emotions are often likely to run high. As long as everyone is civil then it's just a better place all round.

I take your point and it wasn't meant as an insult, purely 'pub talk' you might say. As has been clearly proven this past week the written word can be interpenetrated and taken to mean something it wasn't.

Anyway, back on topic...........Jeremy Corbyn, what an arse :smile:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

"Farron's made more noise after the campaign than during it. Maybe he should have campaigned a bit harder. Positioning the Lib Dems as the anti-Tory party is pathetic at a time where he should be trying to attract One Nation Tories and non-Momentum Labour"

I'm sure he did campaign strongly, the only problem is, since their near annihilation in 2015, no one appears particularly interested in reporting what they say. Difficult to know where to pitch your tent in the shifting sands of British politics at the moment. When I was involved, I always considered us 'left of centre' but that probably dates back to 'Young Liberal' days in the sixties. I've always been 'anti-tory' and the events during the coalition and the last General Election, hasn't done anything to change that view. However, I have slightly modified my position from one of a Tory assassination to an understanding that, for the moment, the tide has gone out on Liberalism (apart from the free market variety) and one will just have to wait and be patient, until it turns again.

 

[londonblue]

Here's an idea I've been formulating in the small amount of grey matter inside my head that hasn't yet deteriorated beyond redemption.

We're in a situation where only 37.5% of people voted to leave and 34.7% of people voted to remain. The remaining 27.8% didn't even vote. The problem on both sides (that voted) is that we were voting for the unknown, i.e. no-one knew what "out" would look like. Some were happy to take the chance, and others weren't.

Baring in mind something like 550 MPs voted to remain, and this vote isn't legally binding, they are now in an interesting position. I therefore have a suggestion for them. I suggest that they actually hold talks with the rest of the EU and negotiate an exit deal. I know this will take some persuading since the EU have so far refused to negotiate until article 50 is invoked, but that aside I would say after a period of negotiation for let's say 2 years (given that is the out time limit) we then document what has been agreed.

At that point we then have another referendum where everyone can vote on two known options. We'll know what "in" will look like since it will be the status quo, but more importantly we'll also know what "out" looks like. I actually think there might be movement on both sides: people that voted out may change their mind when they see what the deal looks like, but also people who voted remain because they were too scared to vote for an unknown may realise that out isn't all that scary.

If the vote is still to leave then all the negotiating will have been done, and the actual exit can be completed pretty quickly.

Feel free to tear this suggestion to pieces, after all I wouldn't expect anything less from the good people of SZ!

 

[Supernaut]

Here's an idea I've been formulating in the small amount of grey matter inside my head that hasn't yet deteriorated beyond redemption.

We're in a situation where only 37.5% of people voted to leave and 34.7% of people voted to remain. The remaining 27.8% didn't even vote. The problem on both sides (that voted) is that we were voting for the unknown, i.e. no-one knew what "out" would look like. Some were happy to take the chance, and others weren't.

Baring in mind something like 550 MPs voted to remain, and this vote isn't legally binding, they are now in an interesting position. I therefore have a suggestion for them. I suggest that they actually hold talks with the rest of the EU and negotiate an exit deal. I know this will take some persuading since the EU have so far refused to negotiate until article 50 is invoked, but that aside I would say after a period of negotiation for let's say 2 years (given that is the out time limit) we then document what has been agreed.

At that point we then have another referendum where everyone can vote on two known options. We'll know what "in" will look like since it will be the status quo, but more importantly we'll also know what "out" looks like. I actually think there might be movement on both sides: people that voted out may change their mind when they see what the deal looks like, but also people who voted remain because they were too scared to vote for an unknown may realise that out isn't all that scary.

If the vote is still to leave then all the negotiating will have been done, and the actual exit can be completed pretty quickly.

Feel free to tear this suggestion to pieces, after all I wouldn't expect anything less from the good people of SZ!

Very sensible.

And therefore not a cat-in-hell's chance that anyone in power in this country might even consider it!

 

[RHB]

I'm ok with the 'what's in' bit LB, that's a good idea, but unless I've missed the point we still wouldn't know what out looks like in terms of finances, job losses/gains, trade deals, investment in the UK etc.

 

[MK Shrimper]

There's a lot of misplaced anger out there by swathes of the country that voted to get out. Do you not think that if we don't press ahead with some sort of Brexit we will see the rise of the extreme right like Britain First, and UKIP as a true electoral force. God forbid we get Nigel Farage as PM.

Last weeks result depressed the hell out of me, and as a country we're going to become weaker and overall poorer - but pandering to the extreme right is an even scarier prospect.

 

[londonblue]

Very sensible.

And therefore not a cat-in-hell's chance that anyone in power in this country might even consider it!

Whilst considering this, it's worth reading this:

BBC

A UK Prime Minister can't enact article 50 without an act of Parliament.

 

[londonblue]

I'm ok with the 'what's in' bit LB, that's a good idea, but unless I've missed the point we still wouldn't know what out looks like in terms of finances, job losses/gains, trade deals, investment in the UK etc.

Fair point, but at least we'd have more idea of what a trade deal would look like, which could be used to make an educated guess at the rest.

 

[Gremlin]

FTSE currently flying above 6,500 (up from 5,923 on June 14th)
No emergency budget
No sign of WW3

Carry on complaining, folks.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

FTSE currently flying above 6,500 (up from 5,923 on June 14th)
No emergency budget
No sign of WW3

Carry on complaining, folks.

Wait until Article 50 is invoked.:omg:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

FTSE currently flying above 6,500 (up from 5,923 on June 14th)
No emergency budget
No sign of WW3

Carry on complaining, folks.

Don't think the FTSE is a particularly good indicator.......millions moving in and out when there is a fast buck to be made, The pound hasn't recovered and I wouldn't crow too much about an emergency budget, until you see the next one which will be announced, probably in the autumn.
No, the real effects of Brexit will be felt when article 50 is invoked and we become detatched from Europe. Then you will find companies and factories re-locating to be in the eurozone and all the time from now, investment is likely to be delayed and/or diverted from the UK to mainland Europe.
You may look as though you haven't been greatly effected by the blast from last week's action but you certainly won't avoid the fall-out.

 

[Gremlin]

Don't think the FTSE is a particularly good indicator.......millions moving in and out when there is a fast buck to be made, The pound hasn't recovered and I wouldn't crow too much about an emergency budget, until you see the next one which will be announced, probably in the autumn.
No, the real effects of Brexit will be felt when article 50 is invoked and we become detatched from Europe. Then you will find companies and factories re-locating to be in the eurozone and all the time from now, investment is likely to be delayed and/or diverted from the UK to mainland Europe.
You may look as though you haven't been greatly effected by the blast from last week's action but you certainly won't avoid the fall-out.

I know and you know that the FTSE rises and falls, however the whingers were very quick to point out a drop last week. It's only right therefore to recognise a gain just a few days later. And of course life post-Article 50 may bring challenges, nobody is suggesting it'll be easy or that they won't suffer as a result however are we all going to spend the next 24 months speculating about what the consequences may be? That approach didn't work very well in respect of the immediate Referendum aftermath did it?

As for companies relocating, that was happening before the referendum and will continue. Some companies invest in the UK and some elsewhere. In fairly recent times the EU funded Ford's move to Turkey from Southampton and also Peugeot's move from Ryton to Slovakia & the Netherlands. With friends like that who needs enemies? Sticking to the car industry, Aston Martin have more recently confirmed that they're going ahead with a £200m plant in the UK despite Brexit.

http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/06/24/aston-martin-to-go-ahead-with-200m-wales-plant/

One thing I forgot to mention earlier was Mark Carney's suggestion yesterday that a drop in interest rates may be necessary. Great news for homeowners in the short-term and quite the opposite of what he & the Chancellor were suggesting would happen in the event of a Leave outcome.

I know this is SZ and we're all supposed to complain all the time but on today of all days shouldn't we remember that we're British and we can get through even the toughest of times?

 

[londonblue]

Don't think the FTSE is a particularly good indicator.......millions moving in and out when there is a fast buck to be made, The pound hasn't recovered and I wouldn't crow too much about an emergency budget, until you see the next one which will be announced, probably in the autumn.
No, the real effects of Brexit will be felt when article 50 is invoked and we become detatched from Europe. Then you will find companies and factories re-locating to be in the eurozone and all the time from now, investment is likely to be delayed and/or diverted from the UK to mainland Europe.
You may look as though you haven't been greatly effected by the blast from last week's action but you certainly won't avoid the fall-out.

Indeed. It's the long term effects that are the issue. At some point in the future we'll all wonder where all the jobs have disappeared to.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Perhaps this kind of post will be considered as a continuation of scaremongering

http://news.sky.com/story/1720169/easyjet-opens-talks-over-post-brexit-hq-move

 

[Barry.C]

So much of the tragedy was that the main issue got entangled by the one banner " Immigration ". This led to the narrow out vote and subsequent victory to many a little Englander. Unfortunately along with the authority of victory has come a fivefold increase in hate crime as we see terrible echoes of the nazi past being writ large
Sadly many a Brexiter is already regretting their decision as they wake up to the realisation they of course wont be seeing hardly any of the promises made come to fruition, as one lie is exposed after another, especially the money that wont be there to go into the National Health Service, any more than immigration will be suddenly and remarkably reduced, whilst laughter echoes throughout the land as poor old Boris falls off his horse after writing one of the poorest articles, ( all over the place ) in the Telegraph on what the future may look like. So Govie who edited it, stabs him in the back , just as he did poor old Call me Dave. Meanwhile the Daily Maile comes out for Theresa, will be interesting to see if Goves wife who allegedly wrote the Gove for PM article in the paper will now resign. Gove , a fine piece of work,said time and time again he was not capable of the job, You cant make this stuff up, Im in fits!

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

So much of the tragedy was that the main issue got entangled by the one banner " Immigration ". This led to the narrow out vote and subsequent victory to many a little Englander. Unfortunately along with the authority of victory has come a fivefold increase in hate crime as we see terrible echoes of the nazi past being writ large
Sadly many a Brexiter is already regretting their decision as they wake up to the realisation they of course wont be seeing hardly any of the promises made come to fruition, as one lie is exposed after another, especially the money that wont be there to go into the National Health Service, any more than immigration will be suddenly and remarkably reduced, whilst laughter echoes throughout the land as poor old Boris falls off his horse after writing one of the poorest articles, ( all over the place ) in the Telegraph on what the future may look like. So Govie who edited it, stabs him in the back , just as he did poor old Call me Dave. Meanwhile the Daily Maile comes out for Theresa, will be interesting to see if Goves wife who allegedly wrote the Gove for PM article in the paper will now resign. Gove , a fine piece of work,said time and time again he was not capable of the job, You cant make this stuff up, Im in fits!

I've got more chance of leading the Tories than Gove! Wait until the vote gets out to the shires, see what they do with Boris's slayer. :smile: (any conversation to follow should perhaps be done on the new Tory leader thread)

 

[Ricky Otto]

I've got more chance of leading the Tories than Gove! Wait until the vote gets out to the shires, see what they do with Boris's slayer. :smile: (any conversation to follow should perhaps be done on the new Tory leader thread)

Cameron was Boris's slayer IMO, Boris thought Dave would invoke article 50 and then he would ride in after the mess and slowly make things better. Now the next leader has that task I'm surprised anyone wants it, it will be a **** storm

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

As things are developing it looks as if we could have a second 'referendum' on Brexit. Unfortunately the only people entitled to vote this time will be Conservative Party members.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

As things are developing it looks as if we could have a second 'referendum' on Brexit. Unfortunately the only people entitled to vote this time will be Conservative Party members.

Or possibly just Tory MP's.

See the "fiscal rule" has been scrapped only two days after JC requested this at PMQ's and was told "it wasn't a good idea".You couldn't make this stuff up.:stunned:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Or possibly just Tory MP's.

See the "fiscal rule" has been scrapped only two days after JC requested this at PMQ's and was told "it wasn't a good idea".You couldn't make this stuff up.:stunned:

Looks as if we may heading for a two woman race for Tory leader. May (the early leader, 'remain') v Leadsom (coming up fast on the rails 'Brexit'). By the attacks the latter has started making, it doesn't look as though she will easily give way to May. However, as an hour now seems a long time in politics, all this could be changed by tomorrow morning! :smile: