The Ashes Thread

[Uncle Leo]

Fair points all about Read.

So, who's the next generation? Steve Davies...? "Tiny" Tim Ambrose...? Can't say the latter has ever impressed.

Who else is waiting in the wings?

Matt

PS Thank heavens for Prior, incidentally, who now looks unshakeable from the England line-up right now. I'd happily have him at 6, as well.

I think Davies is regarded as the 'next cab off the rank' (that phrase has become really widely used this summer hasn't it?) but as H says, it may well be that Kieswetter bloke. How soon before the Saffers out number the proper English in our side?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

I think Davies is regarded as the 'next cab off the rank' (that phrase has become really widely used this summer hasn't it?) but as H says, it may well be that Kieswetter bloke. How soon before the Saffers out number the proper English in our side?

Even with Strauss, Trott, KP and Kieswetter, you'd only be up to four...?

 

[Pubey]

what's Panesar got to do to become good again?

 

[BrettieAngell]

I was told the other day that Prior is a saffer, can anyone confirm this?

 

[Uncle Leo]

Even with Strauss, Trott, KP and Kieswetter, you'd only be up to four...?

Give 'em time, give 'em time...

Plus our current wicket keeper was also South African born (although learnt most of his cricket in England)

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

Up and coming keepers ??

Adam Wheater (ok, so maybe its my Essex blinkers again) but the boy is **** hot and would walk into virtually county XI IMO .. he's obviously hindered in playing 2nd fiddle to the best keeper on the planet at the moment and may seek a move at the end of this season or next to gain more first team experience

 

[BoyWonder2]

What a fantastic effort from everyone invovled for England. Even the disappointing players like Bopara, Cook and Monty weighed in at one time or another.

This series wasn't as good as 2005, that only comes around once in a blue moon, but its still a fantastic achievement so fair play to everyone.

Looking at the stats its difficult to see how we actually won back the Ashes, but we have and thats all that matters. When we needed to, we tended to win a personal battle, or a session that swung the game in our favour. Collingwood, Monty and Jimmy down in Cardiff, Broad with his first innings bowling, Freddie's performance, Swann and Broads useful runs etc etc.

I'm so pleased now that words can't really describe it. We have to build from here though, its something we didn't do back in 2005. We have a good group of players now, and we have proved we can win without KP, and a half fit Freddie. Players like Trott and Onions coming in made a difference. Broad and Swann improved, Strauss looks mustard, Prior looks a proper keeper now.

Come on England!

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

When Strauss was appointed i was a little sceptical tbh, but he has been immense with the bat .. could it be he'll follow Graham Gooch whose test averages went through the roof after being made skipper

 

[Pubey]

When Strauss was appointed i was a little sceptical tbh, but he has been immense with the bat .. could it be he'll follow Graham Gooch whose test averages went through the roof after being made skipper

he's been immense with the bat, agreed... but as a captain I still think he errs a little bit too much on the side of caution. however he is a strong leader and seems to be very popular in the dressing room

 

[number11]

Looking at the stats its difficult to see how we actually won back the Ashes, but we have and thats all that matters. When we needed to, we tended to win a personal battle, or a session that swung the game in our favour. Collingwood, Monty and Jimmy down in Cardiff, Broad with his first innings bowling, Freddie's performance, Swann and Broads useful runs etc etc.

!

Regrading the stats, centuries and wickets taken were massively in Australia's favour. However, like most stats, they only tell so much. I would hazzard a guess that we beat them quite heavily in the 50's count. Also, 4 of their 8 centuries were scored in Cardiff, one was scored in each of their losing efforts at Lord's and the Oval when the nature of the chase meant the game was up by then anyway. Think it shows that all our players chipped in here and there, and most importantly did so when it mattered.

Also, how many runs did our 8 and 9 (Broad and Swann) get compared to their 8 and 9 (Johnson and Siddle).

 

[Uncle Leo]

Regrading the stats, centuries and wickets taken were massively in Australia's favour. However, like most stats, they only tell so much. I would hazzard a guess that we beat them quite heavily in the 50's count. Also, 4 of their 8 centuries were scored in Cardiff, one was scored in each of their losing efforts at Lord's and the Oval when the nature of the chase meant the game was up by then anyway. Think it shows that all our players chipped in here and there, and most importantly did so when it mattered.

Also, how many runs did our 8 and 9 (Broad and Swann) get compared to their 8 and 9 (Johnson and Siddle).

The Times did a good little graphic today, showing all the stats where Australia beat England:

Top seven runscorers. Australia 6-1 England
Hundreds: Australia 8-2 England
Scores above 400: Australia 3-2 England
Sixes: Australia 10-3 England
100+ Partnerships: Australia 8-5 England
20 wickets in the series: Australia 3-0 England
Five wicket hauls: Australia 2-4 England
Catches: Australia 58-37 England

But the one that matters:

England 2
Australia 1

 

[WestRoadShrimper]

Five wicket hauls: Australia 2-4 England

And that stat there backs up what I posted TMS had said at the end of play yesterday. We played well at the right times in the series.

 

[Uncle Leo]

And that stat there backs up what I posted TMS had said at the end of play yesterday. We played well at the right times in the series.

Spot on mate. It's not just taking wickets, it's taking lots of wickets in short order.

 

[Pubey]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport...y-less-appalling-than-australia-200908242003/

"Meanwhile all-rounder Andrew Flintoff is currently on his way to Sao Paolo after accidentally staggering onto a freighter at four o'clock this morning dressed as a Vietnamese prostitute and swigging peach schnapps and lighter fluid from a policeman's helmet with a little umbrella in it"

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Fair points all about Read.

So, who's the next generation? Steve Davies...? "Tiny" Tim Ambrose...? Can't say the latter has ever impressed.

Who else is waiting in the wings?

Matt

PS Thank heavens for Prior, incidentally, who now looks unshakeable from the England line-up right now. I'd happily have him at 6, as well.

It's an interesting one. Do they go Ambrose, Davies or Foster?

Hopefully it won't matter for a few years because I think Prior has had a terrific series and is evolving into one of England's top players.

It'll be another Saffer, Craig Kieswetter of Somerset.

Don't think he qualifies until early next year, but I'd expect him to be involved. England have got to be reluctant to blood another Saffer though they're being overrun.

Even with Strauss, Trott, KP and Kieswetter, you'd only be up to four...?

But that's the coach (Flower), the captain (Strauss), our best player (Pietersen) plus Prior, Trott and Kieswetter. What are the words to Die Stem?

I was told the other day that Prior is a saffer, can anyone confirm this?

Born in Jo'burg I believe.

he's been immense with the bat, agreed... but as a captain I still think he errs a little bit too much on the side of caution. however he is a strong leader and seems to be very popular in the dressing room

I'd give Strauss 8 out of 10 at most. I think his batting was good rather than great (it just looks great relative to some very poor batting from the others). I think his captaincy leaves a lot to be desired. He cost England one test by opting to bat at Headingley and as you say he is very cautious and his bowling changes and fielding places were often curious.

Just because he won the Ashes shouldn't give him mythical status. This Convict team we beat is nowhere near the quality of the one we beat in 2005. Winning now is more like winning in the 80s and some average captains/sides had that honour like Gower and Gatting.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I'm really worried about Bill Lawry today. I pray he finds comfort in pigeons.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

My ratings

Strauss - 10
Cook - 4
Bell - 5
Bopara - 3
Collingwood - 5
Trott - 8
Prior - 8
Flintoff - 6 (but 10 at Lord's)
Broad - 8
Swann - 7
Anderson - 7
Harmison - 5
Onions - 6
Panesar - 3
Pietersen - 4

Blimey. It's quite difficult to encapsulate my feelings about this Test series this morning. Don't get me wrong - I'm totally chuffed that we've won back the Ashes - there's not much that makes me happier than beating the Aussies in a Test series.

Objectively, however, we've not played terribly well over the series. The series has effectively been won on the back of two stunning first innings bowling performances (and Australian batting collapses) in London (Freddy at Lord's, Broad at The Oval); the rearguard action in Cardiff for which most of the credit goes to Paul Collingwood (and the rest to Jimmy and Monty); and on the batting of Andrew Strauss - England's rock at the top of the order, and deservedly the highest run accumulator in both sides over the course of the series.

We've really not been that good - it's not a series that reached the heights of 2005 in terms of our ability with bat and ball. But, sod it, we've been good enough to beat the Ockers, and that's what really counts!

:D

My touring XV for South Africa:

Strauss
Cook
Bell
Bopara
Trott
Collingwood
Pietersen
Prior
Swann
Rashid
Broad
Onions
Anderson
Sidebottom
Mahmood

I'm aware that my last pick is a controversial one, but with the retirement of Freddy and with the probable imminent retirement of Harmy (who travels poorly in any event), the side desperately lacks pace. To be honest, I was down to a three-way split between Mahmood, Liam Plunkett and Tim Murtagh - but the latter two need to go on an A-tour to impress, along with Kent's James Tredwell and Monty Panesar. I'd also like to see Key captain that tour.

I think the tour to South Africa will be even tougher than the Ashes series we've just gone through - and that's without the talismanic Flintoff in the side.

Matt

They won't take 7 batsmen to South Africa. Which probably means bye bye Bopara. Poor Ravi's been dropped three times and he's only played ten tests. He's even been dropped having scored a hundred in his previous test. Bell's probably only been dropped three times in about 50 odd tests of stunning mediocrity.

At least we'll have home advantage in South Africa.

I think I'd take Harmison. Post-Flintoff we'll need someone with aggression. Broad could do it, but I'd rather get someone else in with some pace and bounce to ruffle up the opposition. Big Saj fan, but not sure about his fitness. He's currently out injured, again, for Lancs, don't think he's due back this season. God knows who else is out there. Maybe Robbie Joseph (who I think is also injured).

Murtagh is county. Might be an option at Headingley, but wouldn't dream of picking him for a tour spot. It's also worth noting that his wickets have come in division II. I'd sooner go for someone like Woakes.

As for an England "A" / Lions line-up for the winter, I've come up with the following 17-man shortlist. Thoughts?

Michael Carberry (Hants)
Chris Nash (Sussex)
Rob Key (c) (Kent)
James Hildreth (Somerset)
Stephen Moore (Worcs)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Ian Blackwell (Durham)
Luke Wright (Sussex)
Jamie Dalrymple (Glamorgan)
Steve Davies (wk) (Worcs)
Chris Read (wk) (Notts)
James Tredwell (Kent)
Samit Patel (Notts)
Liam Plunkett (Durham)
Tim Murtagh (Middlesex)
Chris Woakes (Warwks)
Liam Plunkett (Durham)

I'd much rather see a leggie instead of Tredwell. We've loads of young ones about on the fringes of county teams, not sure if any are ready for the step up alongside Rashid. I'd pick Robbie Joseph ahead of Murtagh. I'd also like to find a spot for Finn of Middlesex.

I reckon Ed Joyce might get picked as captain ahead of Key. Moore is yet another Saffer. He got injured the other day. I'd be surprised if that Irish left-hander at Middlesex whose name escapes me isn't included. As might Malan, yet another Saffer batsmen. Carberry is out for the season and possibly any tour, can't remember what he did but apparently it was nasty.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I'm really worried about Bill Lawry today. I pray he finds comfort in pigeons.

Pigeons. And Shane Warne.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Pigeons. And Shane Warne.

But not Big Merv - he's taking a terrible beating.

 

[WestRoadShrimper]

He cost England one test by opting to bat at Headingley

Agree with everything else, but feel the above is a touch harsh. Virtually all the commentators on both Sky and TMS where saying it was a good toss for Ponting to lose, as well as um'ing and arr'ing over what they'd have done.