Thanks Kev - but is a new manager needed?

[Medway Blue]

I find that a very disturbing statement if that is indeed the Trust's position, content to languish in the NL for the foreseeable future.

You're misunderstanding and/or haven't read my other posts.

Firstly, I'm posting in a personal capacity, not as Chair of the Trust. My views are my own.

Secondly, obviously the Trust wants to see success, and obviously wants the club to move back up the division. As I said earlier - who doesn't?

There's a difference between wanting something and demanding it, though.

Level-headedness and realism needed.

The only FACTS are:

• The club is currently losing £2m per season to maintain the current spending on the playing side.
• The new owners are covering those losses, but their funds are not endless, and they cannot cover them forever.
• In order to increase chances of competing for promotion so that those chances are in line with the expectations of some, the playing budget needs to be increased.
• To get anywhere near the budgets of the current top 3, you're looking at at least £500k extra on the playing budget.
• As things stand, that's £500k that the club isn't generating itself, so it increases the losses to £2.5m per year.
• "Speculate to accumulate", I hear you say. But what happens if a York/Barnet/Forest Green budget doesn't guarantee promotion? There are only 2 promotion spots, one of which involves a playoff. Even Wrexham and Stockport didn't get promotion at the first time of asking with their huge budgets.
• Not getting promotion at the first attempt means that £500k extra on the playing budget that the club doesn't actually have, has to be repeated once or even twice, adding a further £1.5m onto the losses across three years. That's when desperation is born, in an attempt to claw those losses back, and spending money that the club doesn't have is what caused our recent near demise.

It's easy to tell other people what they should do with their money, but it's not us who are having to take the financial risk.

There is a balance. Keep spending at the current level, i.e. a playoff-level budget, and bag a promotion by spending it wisely, and by having a good recruitment system in place.

This needs to be given a bit of time, because a good recruitment system can only exist if it can operate without interference, such as embargoes leading to numerous missed targets during peak transfer periods.

It should, in theory, once the football department can do its work unhindered, give a competitive budget which has us in the mix for promotion and gives scope for overachieving.

I believe that's what they're aiming for, and I support that at the moment as the best balance between cautiousness given the club's financial position, and competitiveness.

However......people need to be patient for it to bear fruit.

This black and white, two extremes approach needs to stop. Patience isn't a dirty word, and doesn't automatically mean anybody is "content to languish" anywhere. Why can't there be a middle ground?

 

[RHB]

You're misunderstanding and/or haven't read my other posts.

Firstly, I'm posting in a personal capacity, not as Chair of the Trust. My views are my own.

Secondly, obviously the Trust wants to see success, and obviously wants the club to move back up the division. As I said earlier - who doesn't?

There's a difference between wanting something and demanding it, though.

Level-headedness and realism needed.

The only FACTS are:

• The club is currently losing £2m per season to maintain the current spending on the playing side.
• The new owners are covering those losses, but their funds are not endless, and they cannot cover them forever.
• In order to increase chances of competing for promotion so that those chances are in line with the expectations of some, the playing budget needs to be increased.
• To get anywhere near the budgets of the current top 3, you're looking at at least £500k extra on the playing budget.
• As things stand, that's £500k that the club isn't generating itself, so it increases the losses to £2.5m per year.
• "Speculate to accumulate", I hear you say. But what happens if a York/Barnet/Forest Green budget doesn't guarantee promotion? There are only 2 promotion spots, one of which involves a playoff. Even Wrexham and Stockport didn't get promotion at the first time of asking with their huge budgets.
• Not getting promotion at the first attempt means that £500k extra on the playing budget that the club doesn't actually have, has to be repeated once or even twice, adding a further £1.5m onto the losses across three years. That's when desperation is born, in an attempt to claw those losses back, and spending money that the club doesn't have is what caused our recent near demise.

It's easy to tell other people what they should do with their money, but it's not us who are having to take the financial risk.

There is a balance. Keep spending at the current level, i.e. a playoff-level budget, and bag a promotion by spending it wisely, and by having a good recruitment system in place.

This needs to be given a bit of time, because a good recruitment system can only exist if it can operate without interference, such as embargoes leading to numerous missed targets during peak transfer periods.

It should, in theory, once the football department can do its work unhindered, give a competitive budget which has us in the mix for promotion and gives scope for overachieving.

I believe that's what they're aiming for, and I support that at the moment as the best balance between cautiousness given the club's financial position, and competitiveness.

However......people need to be patient for it to bear fruit.

Sage words @Medway Blue, but, as has been evidenced time and time again on here, there are none so blind as those that will not see.

​

 

[onceknownasrab]

Know one wants to make the same mistakes from the past but the fans want to see progression on the pitch which hasn't happened so far, the fans are going to be disgruntled, £400 a season to watch boring predictable football with 1 shot on goal isn't value for money...... I think thats bit of rip off from COSU to charge £400 to watch conference football. You seemingly forgotten Southend were EFL club for 100 years. With all iv mentioned the fans have every right to demand better.

It's getting the balance right and in part we have of late. COSU is getting the off-field concerns sorted and despite the results we have an ok team. If they can't pump cash in n, at the moment, that's fine. We may well have a couple more seasons to endure in this league, so be it. The problem for me is that the players we have must be allowed to perform better, entertain us and they may even shock us with another surge to the play-offs. They may just finish midway and that's ok too if they are showing endeavour and making the game worth watching.

We can't demand or expect promotion given the circumstances we find ourselves in. We can expect to be able to support our team and enjoy it. Something Maherball is never going to allow.

 

[Roger The Alien]

It's getting the balance right and in part we have of late. COSU is getting the off-field concerns sorted and despite the results we have an ok team. If they can't pump cash in n, at the moment, that's fine. We may well have a couple more seasons to endure in this league, so be it. The problem for me is that the players we have must be allowed to perform better, entertain us and they may even shock us with another surge to the play-offs. They may just finish midway and that's ok too if they are showing endeavour and making the game worth watching.

We can't demand or expect promotion given the circumstances we find ourselves in. We can expect to be able to support our team and enjoy it. Something Maherball is never going to allow.

Even Gateshead, Altricham & Dagenham & Red playing fun and entertaining football on less than half of our budget, would be better to swap our team and manager for Dagenham team and their manager!

 

[blues exile]

You're misunderstanding and/or haven't read my other posts.

Firstly, I'm posting in a personal capacity, not as Chair of the Trust. My views are my own.

Secondly, obviously the Trust wants to see success, and obviously wants the club to move back up the division. As I said earlier - who doesn't?

There's a difference between wanting something and demanding it, though.

Level-headedness and realism needed.

The only FACTS are:

• The club is currently losing £2m per season to maintain the current spending on the playing side.
• The new owners are covering those losses, but their funds are not endless, and they cannot cover them forever.
• In order to increase chances of competing for promotion so that those chances are in line with the expectations of some, the playing budget needs to be increased.
• To get anywhere near the budgets of the current top 3, you're looking at at least £500k extra on the playing budget.
• As things stand, that's £500k that the club isn't generating itself, so it increases the losses to £2.5m per year.
• "Speculate to accumulate", I hear you say. But what happens if a York/Barnet/Forest Green budget doesn't guarantee promotion? There are only 2 promotion spots, one of which involves a playoff. Even Wrexham and Stockport didn't get promotion at the first time of asking with their huge budgets.
• Not getting promotion at the first attempt means that £500k extra on the playing budget that the club doesn't actually have, has to be repeated once or even twice, adding a further £1.5m onto the losses across three years. That's when desperation is born, in an attempt to claw those losses back, and spending money that the club doesn't have is what caused our recent near demise.

It's easy to tell other people what they should do with their money, but it's not us who are having to take the financial risk.

There is a balance. Keep spending at the current level, i.e. a playoff-level budget, and bag a promotion by spending it wisely, and by having a good recruitment system in place.

This needs to be given a bit of time, because a good recruitment system can only exist if it can operate without interference, such as embargoes leading to numerous missed targets during peak transfer periods.

It should, in theory, once the football department can do its work unhindered, give a competitive budget which has us in the mix for promotion and gives scope for overachieving.

I believe that's what they're aiming for, and I support that at the moment as the best balance between cautiousness given the club's financial position, and competitiveness.

However......people need to be patient for it to bear fruit.

This black and white, two extremes approach needs to stop. Patience isn't a dirty word, and doesn't automatically mean anybody is "content to languish" anywhere. Why can't there be a middle ground?

There is no misunderstanding on my part but there appears to be on yours as your very lengthy reply seems ro indicate. I have never advocated an increase in spending as far as I am concerned and I am of course aware of the financial constraints that COSU are faced with thus most of your remarks are superfluous to the subject of the thread which is about whether Maher should go. What I alluded to was priorities which in my view should be concentrating on getting back in the EFL which looks a remote possibility with the present coaching team who seem to have run out of road with a particularly dull and unsuccessful brand of football which is guaranteed to leave us stuck in this purgatory and alienate much of the support. I hope this clarifies things for you.
On a side issue you say in your opening remarks that you are expressing your personal views not those of the trust yet in your next paragraph that is exactly what you do, stating 'the Trust'!

 

[Strykr]

You're misunderstanding and/or haven't read my other posts.

Firstly, I'm posting in a personal capacity, not as Chair of the Trust. My views are my own.

Secondly, obviously the Trust wants to see success, and obviously wants the club to move back up the division. As I said earlier - who doesn't?

There's a difference between wanting something and demanding it, though.

Level-headedness and realism needed.

The only FACTS are:

• The club is currently losing £2m per season to maintain the current spending on the playing side.
• The new owners are covering those losses, but their funds are not endless, and they cannot cover them forever.
• In order to increase chances of competing for promotion so that those chances are in line with the expectations of some, the playing budget needs to be increased.
• To get anywhere near the budgets of the current top 3, you're looking at at least £500k extra on the playing budget.
• As things stand, that's £500k that the club isn't generating itself, so it increases the losses to £2.5m per year.
• "Speculate to accumulate", I hear you say. But what happens if a York/Barnet/Forest Green budget doesn't guarantee promotion? There are only 2 promotion spots, one of which involves a playoff. Even Wrexham and Stockport didn't get promotion at the first time of asking with their huge budgets.
• Not getting promotion at the first attempt means that £500k extra on the playing budget that the club doesn't actually have, has to be repeated once or even twice, adding a further £1.5m onto the losses across three years. That's when desperation is born, in an attempt to claw those losses back, and spending money that the club doesn't have is what caused our recent near demise.

It's easy to tell other people what they should do with their money, but it's not us who are having to take the financial risk.

There is a balance. Keep spending at the current level, i.e. a playoff-level budget, and bag a promotion by spending it wisely, and by having a good recruitment system in place.

This needs to be given a bit of time, because a good recruitment system can only exist if it can operate without interference, such as embargoes leading to numerous missed targets during peak transfer periods.

It should, in theory, once the football department can do its work unhindered, give a competitive budget which has us in the mix for promotion and gives scope for overachieving.

I believe that's what they're aiming for, and I support that at the moment as the best balance between cautiousness given the club's financial position, and competitiveness.

However......people need to be patient for it to bear fruit.

This black and white, two extremes approach needs to stop. Patience isn't a dirty word, and doesn't automatically mean anybody is "content to languish" anywhere. Why can't there be a middle ground?

Its an interesting quandry.

What really is sustainability? Players in all leagues are payed far to much vs gate revenue, most clubs live far beyond their means propped up by millionaires looking for excitement and fame with their 'toys'.

We are in the national league with big gates and losing 2m a year. Its absurd. Without a sugar daddy in reality sustainability for us (and a lot of clubs) is selling the hall for flats. Building a 2k seat venue in a park out of town and playing in the counties league. The gates can cover the part time players wages.

But theres the big question, where is the fun in that? Where is the prestige, the glory, the entertainment....

 

[Liam AAS]

Its an interesting quandry.

What really is sustainability? Players in all leagues are payed far to much vs gate revenue, most clubs live far beyond their means propped up by millionaires looking for excitement and fame with their 'toys'.

We are in the national league with big gates and losing 2m a year. Its absurd. Without a sugar daddy in reality sustainability for us (and a lot of clubs) is selling the hall for flats. Building a 2k seat venue in a park out of town and playing in the counties league. The gates can cover the part time players wages.

But theres the big question, where is the fun in that? Where is the prestige, the glory, the entertainment....

Sustainability is where revenues cover as much of the losses as possible (ideally all, but that's tough). There is a huge site at RH that can be utilised to generate non-matchday income to help stem those losses.

If the losses can be covered then any additional owner funding can go into the playing squad, and even if they withdraw that funding (as Ron did) then the club can still wash its face.

At the moment, that loss (including playing budget) is £2m/year. But that number can go up or down.

 

[Strykr]

Sustainability is where revenues cover as much of the losses as possible (ideally all, but that's tough). There is a huge site at RH that can be utilised to generate non-matchday income to help stem those losses.

If the losses can be covered then any additional owner funding can go into the playing squad, and even if they withdraw that funding (as Ron did) then the club can still wash its face.

At the moment, that loss (including playing budget) is £2m/year. But that number can go up or down.

Yes i get that, and all for it. But surely that level of real sustainability can only achieve a very limited amount of "success" in the modern footballing world due to the obvious imbalance of income vs expenditure. Which begs the question of what peoples realistic aims are. Ill always support the blues no matter what, but beating man u at home sure is a lot more fun then losing to tamworth away.

 

[Liam AAS]

Yes i get that, and all for it. But surely that level of real sustainability can only achieve a very limited amount of "success" in the modern footballing world due to the obvious imbalance of income vs expenditure. Which begs the question of what peoples realistic aims are. Ill always support the blues no matter what, but beating man u at home sure is a lot more fun then losing to tamworth away.

I agree. But if it stops the club ever going near that cliff edge again, I'll be content.

ECFC Club Charter | ECFC Supporters' Trust

www.weownexetercityfc.co.uk

Point 1 might be of interest as Exeter are a genuinely fan-owned club.

 

[Strykr]

I agree. But if it stops the club ever going near that cliff edge again, I'll be content.

ECFC Club Charter | ECFC Supporters' Trust

www.weownexetercityfc.co.uk

Point 1 might be of interest as Exeter are a genuinely fan-owned club.

I do like the exeter model and id sign up for that. In an idyllic world every club would be like that.

 

[It'sGrimUpNorth]

You're misunderstanding and/or haven't read my other posts.

Firstly, I'm posting in a personal capacity, not as Chair of the Trust. My views are my own.

Secondly, obviously the Trust wants to see success, and obviously wants the club to move back up the division. As I said earlier - who doesn't?

There's a difference between wanting something and demanding it, though.

Level-headedness and realism needed.

The only FACTS are:

• The club is currently losing £2m per season to maintain the current spending on the playing side.
• The new owners are covering those losses, but their funds are not endless, and they cannot cover them forever.
• In order to increase chances of competing for promotion so that those chances are in line with the expectations of some, the playing budget needs to be increased.
• To get anywhere near the budgets of the current top 3, you're looking at at least £500k extra on the playing budget.
• As things stand, that's £500k that the club isn't generating itself, so it increases the losses to £2.5m per year.
• "Speculate to accumulate", I hear you say. But what happens if a York/Barnet/Forest Green budget doesn't guarantee promotion? There are only 2 promotion spots, one of which involves a playoff. Even Wrexham and Stockport didn't get promotion at the first time of asking with their huge budgets.
• Not getting promotion at the first attempt means that £500k extra on the playing budget that the club doesn't actually have, has to be repeated once or even twice, adding a further £1.5m onto the losses across three years. That's when desperation is born, in an attempt to claw those losses back, and spending money that the club doesn't have is what caused our recent near demise.

It's easy to tell other people what they should do with their money, but it's not us who are having to take the financial risk.

There is a balance. Keep spending at the current level, i.e. a playoff-level budget, and bag a promotion by spending it wisely, and by having a good recruitment system in place.

This needs to be given a bit of time, because a good recruitment system can only exist if it can operate without interference, such as embargoes leading to numerous missed targets during peak transfer periods.

It should, in theory, once the football department can do its work unhindered, give a competitive budget which has us in the mix for promotion and gives scope for overachieving.

I believe that's what they're aiming for, and I support that at the moment as the best balance between cautiousness given the club's financial position, and competitiveness.

However......people need to be patient for it to bear fruit.

This black and white, two extremes approach needs to stop. Patience isn't a dirty word, and doesn't automatically mean anybody is "content to languish" anywhere. Why can't there be a middle ground?

Who in their right mind would buy a football club?!!!
Thank Christ they did, but crickey……

 

[Roger The Alien]

Over 8k crowds today, against a bottom of the league side (one of the worst NL side in the history), for a club that don’t play attacking and entertaining football.

Gateshead, Rochdale, Forest Green and Barnet would love to have an crowd like that, when they are top of the piles.

 

[tottenham541]

Just stick with this coaching set up, we should all donate full on to the cause for next season, have a collection on this site from 1st June and see what this gets us for next season, give this lot a full season and who knows, we might just get in top 3 eh.