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Thanks Kev - but is a new manager needed?

Should Maher go?

  • Yes

    Votes: 161 29.3%
  • No

    Votes: 282 51.3%
  • On the fence

    Votes: 107 19.5%

  • Total voters
    550
I feel compelled to post this evening, because I feel there's a fair amount of revisionism and lack of consideration of issues at the moment. I'll start by saying nobody wants to see Southend United in a mid-table position in the National League, and least of all those people is Kevin Maher.

I've seen the phrase "credit in the bank" used quite a lot. In my opinion, there's not enough credit in the bank for what Maher and his staff have been through. Quite simply, he went above and beyond what any football manager should have to do during his first two-and-a-half years at the club.

To my mind, it's also simply not possible to dismiss the situation at the club is the lead-up to this season as an excuse. Less than six months ago, we weren't sure if the National League were going to let us participate in the competition this season, Ron Martin still owned the club and we couldn't sign any players.

Then, once the off-field stuff was resolved and the season started, we lost our talisman up front to a divisional rival and the central defender that not only enabled us to play out from the back effectively, but was also a player that clubs from higher divisions were reportedly interested in and could have been sold for a decent profit. Once they'd gone, another two key components to our style of play in midfield, Cav Miley and Oli Coker, were ruled out for a lengthy period.

I've stated before, I don't think it's the style of play, or the formation, we employ, it's been the execution and the results. A couple more home wins and we'd be in or around the play-offs, and these conversations wouldn't be taking place. Of course, we haven't won those games, and not all of that is due to the context above. But I don't remember anyone complaining about how we played last season, or the season before; if the coaching team were allowed a free pass due to circumstances in those seasons, why has that now been rescinded?

Another huge factor is confidence and belief. I've posted the statistics about what happens when we go behind a couple of times in recent weeks, but here they are again: 2 points gained in league matches where we've conceded the first goal and 3 points gained from matches where we've been in a losing position. That's partially why we play it safe sometimes and don't take a risk, because we're worried if we do we'll almost certainly lose.

The other aspect to that is that you can't just go down the shops and buy some confidence. You have to earn it. Fighting back (twice) from a goal down against the league leaders will help; picking up a point away from home when you have to play 40 minutes with ten men will help; beating a team away from home that are on the cusp of the play-offs will help. In short, we're unbeaten in five matches with three clean sheets; the longer we keep that going, the more belief the squad will have.

But there's a real sense that it's our home form that's the issue and so, whilst the 2-2 draw with Forest Green Rovers was helpful, it won't eradicate the bad memories of home defeats against Maidenhead United and Yeovil Town.

I have faith that Maher and his team will overcome this. Why? Because he has already turned the club around once, when he arrived through the door in his first managerial job. Remember where we were in autumn 2021, on a complete downward spiral. Chris Powell hadn't managed to turn things around, Kevin Bond got us off to the following season on an awful footing, Sol Campbell got a couple of memorable results with largely a youth team, but most of that season we were listless and it ended with relegation on points per game, Mark Molesey's first league appointment was an almost impossible assignment, and Phil Brown's second tenure ended with the club in disarray.

Kevin Maher walked into that situation - with all the off-field shenanigans in the background - and made people proud to represent Southend United, whether that was the coaching staff, the players on the pitch, those around Roots Hall, us as fans. Whatever we felt about the owner, we could see there was someone in the trenches fighting for the club, fighting for us. And he turned this club around when it was pointed straight at National League South. So when he says he knows what he needs to do, we should listen.

The recent recruitment of Charley Kendall suggests to me that the recruitment model is back on track, that we're identifying the sort of targets we have previously. I said after the Brentwood game we have options all over the pitch now, and I expect there will be a few different options over the coming months, if the right players become available.

I'm not going to go into depth on formations, etc, because I wrote this almost two months ago, and that's still my position. Maher has a favoured formation and style, but he has always been flexible, in game and between games. Anyone that suggests otherwise and that he's stubborn or resistant to change is not portraying the situation accurately.

I think we're amazingly fortunate that we've had someone with the passion, commitment, dignity, knowledge and ability of Kevin Maher leading our football club over the past three years, and I firmly believe he will lead us out of this division (in the right direction) in time. We've improved season-on-season, so although there may be some blind loyalty in this post, I also feel it's rooted in a fair amount of fact and context.
A well reasoned and well written post. But the final sentence is simply not true. We have not improved season on season, we’re playing the worst football since the three coaches arrived. We are in the lowest league position in our entire history. That’s why the knives are out from so many on the Zone. You can respect Mr Maher, as I do, some seem to even love him, but no manager is unsackable. Football management is like politics; it invariably ends in failure. The only variable is the timing.
 
A well reasoned and well written post. But the final sentence is simply not true. We have not improved season on season, we’re playing the worst football since the three coaches arrived. We are in the lowest league position in our entire history. That’s why the knives are out from so many on the Zone. You can respect Mr Maher, as I do, some seem to even love him, but no manager is unsackable. Football management is like politics; it invariably ends in failure. The only variable is the timing.

In terms of league position, we have.

We could again this season.
 
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Reactions: GBJ
I feel compelled to post this evening, because I feel there's a fair amount of revisionism and lack of consideration of issues at the moment. I'll start by saying nobody wants to see Southend United in a mid-table position in the National League, and least of all those people is Kevin Maher.

I've seen the phrase "credit in the bank" used quite a lot. In my opinion, there's not enough credit in the bank for what Maher and his staff have been through. Quite simply, he went above and beyond what any football manager should have to do during his first two-and-a-half years at the club.

To my mind, it's also simply not possible to dismiss the situation at the club is the lead-up to this season as an excuse. Less than six months ago, we weren't sure if the National League were going to let us participate in the competition this season, Ron Martin still owned the club and we couldn't sign any players.

Then, once the off-field stuff was resolved and the season started, we lost our talisman up front to a divisional rival and the central defender that not only enabled us to play out from the back effectively, but was also a player that clubs from higher divisions were reportedly interested in and could have been sold for a decent profit. Once they'd gone, another two key components to our style of play in midfield, Cav Miley and Oli Coker, were ruled out for a lengthy period.

I've stated before, I don't think it's the style of play, or the formation, we employ, it's been the execution and the results. A couple more home wins and we'd be in or around the play-offs, and these conversations wouldn't be taking place. Of course, we haven't won those games, and not all of that is due to the context above. But I don't remember anyone complaining about how we played last season, or the season before; if the coaching team were allowed a free pass due to circumstances in those seasons, why has that now been rescinded?

Another huge factor is confidence and belief. I've posted the statistics about what happens when we go behind a couple of times in recent weeks, but here they are again: 2 points gained in league matches where we've conceded the first goal and 3 points gained from matches where we've been in a losing position. That's partially why we play it safe sometimes and don't take a risk, because we're worried if we do we'll almost certainly lose.

The other aspect to that is that you can't just go down the shops and buy some confidence. You have to earn it. Fighting back (twice) from a goal down against the league leaders will help; picking up a point away from home when you have to play 40 minutes with ten men will help; beating a team away from home that are on the cusp of the play-offs will help. In short, we're unbeaten in five matches with three clean sheets; the longer we keep that going, the more belief the squad will have.

But there's a real sense that it's our home form that's the issue and so, whilst the 2-2 draw with Forest Green Rovers was helpful, it won't eradicate the bad memories of home defeats against Maidenhead United and Yeovil Town.

I have faith that Maher and his team will overcome this. Why? Because he has already turned the club around once, when he arrived through the door in his first managerial job. Remember where we were in autumn 2021, on a complete downward spiral. Chris Powell hadn't managed to turn things around, Kevin Bond got us off to the following season on an awful footing, Sol Campbell got a couple of memorable results with largely a youth team, but most of that season we were listless and it ended with relegation on points per game, Mark Molesey's first league appointment was an almost impossible assignment, and Phil Brown's second tenure ended with the club in disarray.

Kevin Maher walked into that situation - with all the off-field shenanigans in the background - and made people proud to represent Southend United, whether that was the coaching staff, the players on the pitch, those around Roots Hall, us as fans. Whatever we felt about the owner, we could see there was someone in the trenches fighting for the club, fighting for us. And he turned this club around when it was pointed straight at National League South. So when he says he knows what he needs to do, we should listen.

The recent recruitment of Charley Kendall suggests to me that the recruitment model is back on track, that we're identifying the sort of targets we have previously. I said after the Brentwood game we have options all over the pitch now, and I expect there will be a few different options over the coming months, if the right players become available.

I'm not going to go into depth on formations, etc, because I wrote this almost two months ago, and that's still my position. Maher has a favoured formation and style, but he has always been flexible, in game and between games. Anyone that suggests otherwise and that he's stubborn or resistant to change is not portraying the situation accurately.

I think we're amazingly fortunate that we've had someone with the passion, commitment, dignity, knowledge and ability of Kevin Maher leading our football club over the past three years, and I firmly believe he will lead us out of this division (in the right direction) in time. We've improved season-on-season, so although there may be some blind loyalty in this post, I also feel it's rooted in a fair amount of fact and context.
Well said!
Fortunately I believe this to the view of the silent majority of our fanbase. This is why attendances remain consistent this season.
Many are attending because it's become about the Club, it's about feeling connected again, the acceptance that we are where we are and a level of tolerance towards the on field performance has been adopted, based from a realistic outlook to how the protracted takeover impeded this season's on and off field development.
Yes for some it is all about the football and value for money ect, after all it's a football club selling a product and they have been loyal for years and are currently are not happy with the product available. But for many more, this season at least, it's all about supporting the Club and as hard as it is for some to accept the football is secondary, but expectations will no doubt increase from the much mentioned January EFL window and throughout the summer recruitment and despite some people's wishes for Kev to be replaced, from COSU's perspective that day is a long long way off.
 
In terms of league position, we have.

We could again this season.
You can’t say the football has improved though. The football was more enjoyable to watch under Ron most seasons (purely on the pitch)!

I could stomach boring football if we were grinding out wins but we aren’t even doing that. These games remind me of the start of our last season in league one. I’d rather we went for it and lost 4-3 than get a boring 0-0. It’s just depressing and makes people fall out of love with going.
 
You can’t say the football has improved though. The football was more enjoyable to watch under Ron most seasons (purely on the pitch)!

I could stomach boring football if we were grinding out wins but we aren’t even doing that. These games remind me of the start of our last season in league one. I’d rather we went for it and lost 4-3 than get a boring 0-0. It’s just depressing and makes people fall out of love with going.
Then we'd be even lower down the table.
 
I am not advocating for 0-0 draws, I am highlighting the importance of clean sheets.
I don't think anyone thinks that a porous defence is a good outcome.

However a 0 number in the goals against column is not how games are won as outlined.

Goals win games which means you need to get the ball forward and into the opposition net.

Focusing on not letting a goal in is counterproductive to the intent of winning

... And yes beat form of defence is attack (not the other way around!)
 
Who plays wide right in a midfield 4? I really hope your solution isn’t Gus…

Who plays as the two at centre back in either of those formations? I don’t think any combination of our centre backs are strong enough to play as a two.

Having a front three is more “suitable” than a midfielder four that’s for sure.
Bridge can play right in a 4-4-2 formation, as he can whip in a cross earlier with his strong foot. Walker also can play right wing, like he do for Dagenham (also can play attacking right in a 4-3-3 too).
 
Bridge can play right in a 4-4-2 formation, as he can whip in a cross earlier with his strong foot. Walker also can play right wing, like he do for Dagenham (also can play attacking right in a 4-3-3 too).

If you play Bridge wide right, who plays wide left?

Walker didn’t play ring wing for Daggers. He could play wide in a 3, but he is not a winger.
 
In terms of league position, we have.

We could again this season.
Factually incorrect. Finishing league positions were 13, 8 and 9. If there had indeed been real progress the 10point deduction which you will no doubt throw in to the mix would have been irrelevant. Maher's peak was two seasons ago. Like all managerial cycles end, his is now in obvious decline. Players that were central to his earlier progress like Husin, Bridge, Miley, Kensdale and Cardwell have either peaked and are in decline or have left. Time to recognise the game is up. We might stagger on with the occasional upturn in results but mid table mediocrity coupled with dire, negative entertainment value is the best we can hope for with the current coaching staff.
 
Factually incorrect. Finishing league positions were 13, 8 and 9. If there had indeed been real progress the 10point deduction which you will no doubt throw in to the mix would have been irrelevant. Maher's peak was two seasons ago. Like all managerial cycles end, his is now in obvious decline. Players that were central to his earlier progress like Husin, Bridge, Miley, Kensdale and Cardwell have either peaked and are in decline or have left. Time to recognise the game is up. We might stagger on with the occasional upturn in results but mid table mediocrity coupled with dire, negative entertainment value is the best we can hope for with the current coaching staff.

I’m sorry Kev has obviously never apologised for running over your cat.

In terms of points gained, Kev has improved us season upon season. I’m obviously not allowed to mention the 10 point deduction, as you deem that irrelevant to anything, but I’m talking about points Kev picked up, not what a league table says.

I don’t know how he peaked two seasons ago, and is in “obvious decline” when he was better last season than his “peak”. He picked up more points last season, had us in contention of the play-offs, and we would have made it without the thing you deem irrelevant. So irrelevant that it meant we missed out on the play-offs, so I’m not sure how “irrelevant” that is…

That’s the first time you’ve criticised the players. I thought it was all Kev’s fault. That’s what you’ve stated before. I can’t disagree too much on the players, however I still think Husin, Miley & Bridge haven’t “peaked”, I think they haven’t hit the standards they achieved last season, which is the point I’ve been making for ages, but a point you’ve never recognised till now.

I’m glad I don’t like in a world that means you only seem to see the negative, and all the blame is at one person. Kev isn’t perfect, he does have flaws, however we’d be in a worse position without him.

He put his hand in his pockets, along with the likes of TL and the other amigos, to pay security staff to ensure games went ahead. He helped players and members of staff financially when they went months without being paid, all at a time he wasn’t being paid. I won’t name names of those still here, but Kensdale was one he helped, which is why the Kensdale situation hurt him, and the other players so much.

Please refer back to the excellent post by @Exiled Shrimper
 
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I don't think anyone thinks that a porous defence is a good outcome.

However a 0 number in the goals against column is not how games are won as outlined.

Goals win games which means you need to get the ball forward and into the opposition net.

Focusing on not letting a goal in is counterproductive to the intent of winning

... And yes beat form of defence is attack (not the other way around!)

Fantastic, we all agree!
 
Doubt it, has he been a success anywhere recently ?
Yes, at Millwall. Guided them away from relegation in an extremely difficult league, on a relatively tiny budget. The nature of football fans being what it is, (Enough is never enough)he had a little spat with some of them after a recent defeat. But the general view from the majority of Millwall fans is that he's over achieved with the squad he had, so he's done a great job.
 
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