Thanks Kev - but is a new manager needed?

[kentblues]

I meant the goalposts from the poster.

However, I’d still like to think we’ll implement a “B” team at some stage. Whether that is IF we get promoted to the EFL like with the academy, I don’t know.

We now have a bigger squad than last season, and players need minutes. Wind & Wood are prime examples, Waldron, Gubbins & Miley too whilst on the comeback from injury. If Collin is a number 2 now, he still needs game time.

Also, if we sign “projects” like we did with Kensdale & Brooklyn, they need to be exposed to Mens football. Crowther was a project too, but has played more than expected due to Kensdale.

Agree very much for what that is worth. Seems we want sometimes an outcome of a plan without investing in the means of delivering it. And are then surprised, especially given how short term the fan base can be, when we seek a different type of recruit.

Really prompted by BarryC mentioning the type of player we were going to be recruiting, combined with Stan reminding us of the structure that was going to be in place to enable it (which hasn’t happened)

PS I know they were different goalposts- I was (perhaps clumsily) changing the subject :-)

 

[dusterman]

Everything feels strained since he should not be named departed. We nearly lost our club, lest us forger. Kev frustrated me as a player, but in in no way will he take us down. Give him free reign from Jan onwards and see what he can do. Not subscribing to the doom and gloom. My boys first full season and he’s loving it so sod it.

 

[ColinMorrisWalksOnWater]

Had we signed some of our top targets, we wouldn’t have signed some of the players we did.

Ollie Pearce had agreed to sign for us. If he signs, do we sign Walker? I think so still, but we don’t bring in Bonne.

Gubbins was a priority target, so that’s good.

Not sure Wind would have been signed if we’d signed our top target, which was the RWB that signed for York with Pearce, his name escapes me.

Never got a name for our top target as a creative midfielder, but we wouldn’t have Moncur here if we’d signed him.

Going back to previous summers, Justham was a top target and had agreed to sign for us. Jeacock wouldn’t be here now.

Andy Dallas agreed to sign for us TWICE, Josh Kelly was desperate to sign here too.

We don’t know how they’d have all got on, but surely it would have been better signing our top targets, as opposed to getting 4/5th choice. We wouldn’t have been making “calculated risks” with Bonne & Moncur.

As I say, we don’t know how it would have all panned out, but the embargo and delayed takeover has affected things despite what some people think.

As you’ve said, and I’ve said numerous times, Kev and the amigos are not immune from criticism, of course they aren’t, but they aren’t the only ones who should be getting criticism.

Thanks for reposting those names, which you have before l know. The right wing back was Felix I believe from Eastbourne and now a favourite at York.

Just underpins the difference we could have had, save for one individual's actions preventing those named from completing their signings. It is always good to refer to such individuals not arriving for reference and balance the debate.

Hence why January could be key to our season and we could be in a better place at the end of Jan hopefully.

 

[BoyWonder2]

Everything feels strained since he should not be named departed. We nearly lost our club, lest us forger. Kev frustrated me as a player, but in in no way will he take us down. Give him free reign from Jan onwards and see what he can do. Not subscribing to the doom and gloom. My boys first full season and he’s loving it so sod it.

And that’s what it’s all about.

 

[RHB]

Coming soon to ShrimperZone


To whom it may concern:

 

[Texas Eslan]

Good evening all, hope you're well.

I'm posting purely as an interested pundit.

I can't and won't comment about COSU, I'm not privvy to what their plans are.

What I do know is what the plan was and in my opinion ( as proven at other clubs, proven) was bearing fruit, even under the previous ownership which in my opinion hampered every green shoot that grew due to owner delusion on a level I've never seen in my life.

The aim was simple so I'll put it in bullet points.

1. Owner bankrolls the club at a competive budget for the league.
2. A recruitment department that finds the best available ( ideally under 25) talent who can be developed, are hungry and have resale value.
3. Checks and balances amongst the football department to ensure the best players play for the club. No pals of agents, mates of mates, football nepotism, favours, etc. Cold, hard analysis, watching and recruiting. The CEO and owner then know that the players have been seen by several, a simple majority agrees and CEO/ owner sign off.
4. The Head coach is responsible for coaching and bettering the talent he has. That's it. He has zero business being involved in finance, stadium, nothing other than coaching, leading and having the final say as part of the recruitment department on whether he wants a player.
5. An assistant head coach and or first team coach who share broadly similar principles so when the head coach goes to Manchester United or is sacked after realistic KPI's aren't met over an agreed timescale, continuity reigns. Players get consistency, boom and bust cycle of 5 managers with 5 different ways of playing( = cash oozing from the club) is avoided.
6. B team rather than 21's or 23's. Right squad of quality youth who learn from senior pros coming from injury, on trial or who need minutes. Coached by First team coach alongside a senior pro taking first steps to coaching pathway.

That was the plan. Simple, effective and managed to get that mythical "80% right" of recruitment decisions which in turn had the team go through 2 long unbeaten runs during a disgraceful stewardship by the then owner. 2 long unbeaten runs, consistency building, most of the players contributing significantly, one or two always aren't going to work but by and large, forward momentum was building.

Owner(s) gives the budget.
CEO runs day to day and signs off.
Head coach coaches team.
Assistants provide continuity.
B team provides youngsters with a tailored football environment of games, potential coaches get an in house pathway.

When a club deviates from this, and haven't got the money to blow others out of the water, and the "we NEED to get 80% of decisions right" mantra gives way to little accountability or oversight.

Things unravel.

Stay well, and genuine good luck moving forward.

PS, for what it's worth, I believe Kev is 100% the right man to be head coach to coach the team, Daz Assistant Head Coach and Benno First team coach. Likewise Tom Lawrence as CEO, proved his worth during the Ron period and recent good and progressive information and ideas.


Stan.

Not sure how I feel about this post. Stan, to all intents and purposes, completely disappeared. Not even a hint of a mention on socials to results (even when doing well) so felt a little personal. Comes back after many months and has a little dig at the recruitment…

Now I fully backed Stan’s involvement from day 1 and still believe him being part of the set up is a missed opportunity. However, this has a hint of something about it I’m not keen on.

Why dig at recruitment when we needed bodies in to fill the squad? How would he have negotiated this during yet another embargo? Is it because it deviates from the model Stan suggested (and I fully backed) or because he has a personal issue with someone here?

 

[Kris]

It is fallacious to blame last season's problems for this season's failures. It is the here and now that needs addressing before it's too late.

Losing both Cardwell and Kensdale in the same week has ruined this season. The latter brought the ball from the back into midfield to enable more progressive possession, bringing out the best of our 3-5-2 system, and Cardwell was our top scorer last season. Both huge losses.

We'll be fine and hopefully some new signings will improve things. Next season, when Kev has no embargoes to deal with, has a proper shot in the transfer market and, gasp, a full pre-season, that is when he should be fully judged.

 

[duncan bulgaria]

Not sure how I feel about this post. Stan, to all intents and purposes, completely disappeared. Not even a hint of a mention on socials to results (even when doing well) so felt a little personal. Comes back after many months and has a little dig at the recruitment…

Now I fully backed Stan’s involvement from day 1 and still believe him being part of the set up is a missed opportunity. However, this has a hint of something about it I’m not keen on.

Why dig at recruitment when we needed bodies in to fill the squad? How would he have negotiated this during yet another embargo? Is it because it deviates from the model Stan suggested (and I fully backed) or because he has a personal issue with someone here?

Id say its more of a timely reminder that there was a solid agreement on how to run things and how to be successful, it appears in regards to recruitment this was heading in the right direction and as i stated previously the 11 we had vs Barnet away with 2 additions ( GK and Goalscoring CM ) would of been title contenders

What has gone a drift from there has probably prompted Stan in having a dig/pointing out that things have not quite followed the agreed path - I rate Moncur but he is a prime example of not being in the model agreed add to that Bonne and you can see why he is probably scratching his head somewhat.
The club is a poorer place without Stan involved, he had some very good fresh and current idea's

 

[Texas Eslan]

Id say its more of a timely reminder that there was a solid agreement on how to run things and how to be successful, it appears in regards to recruitment this was heading in the right direction and as i stated previously the 11 we had vs Barnet away with 2 additions ( GK and Goalscoring CM ) would of been title contenders

What has gone a drift from there has probably prompted Stan in having a dig/pointing out that things have not quite followed the agreed path - I rate Moncur but he is a prime example of not being in the model agreed add to that Bonne and you can see why he is probably scratching his head somewhat.
The club is a poorer place without Stan involved, he had some very good fresh and current idea's

Totally agree re his involvement and the model. I just find the way the subject is broached here as a little underhand. Say what you see Stan, no need to be cryptic. If it’s the Moncur/Bonne recruitments then just say it.

Saying “Things unravel” seems to suggest more to it and a level of disharmony.

 

[Roger The Alien]

For me, we 100% should not be looking to replace Kev or any of the amigos in the immediate future.

Whilst we can and should question performances, results, selections, substations, signings etc I don’t think Kev’s position is under threat, and neither should it.

One thing I want to touch on, which Stan Collymore said the Club should go down the route of, and I hope COSU are continuing with this, is identifying an identity, a style of play, a culture etc.

So, if Kev does get the sack, I don’t think we will have a manager coming in, ripping up the squad and going down the route of different tactics. The idea being that players are recruited to fit a role, I.e. a goalkeeper who is good with their feet, wing backs etc. so when a new manager comes in later in the future, he doesn’t straight away put 6/7 in the “bomb” squad, because he wants to ditch wing backs, meaning we bring in 6/7 new players. That manager goes, we recruit a long ball manager, brings in 6/7 players to fit his style and rinse and repeat. We also don’t see a MM situation where he comes in with 6/7 backroom staff, he gets the sack and they all get their contracts paid up. So if Kev goes, Bentley and Currie are there and we either promote on and bring in their replacement or we bring someone in to work with them.

Kev has far too much credit in the bank, and whilst this season has been poor to say the least, I think more people should be looking at the performances of the players. With those we have they were with us last season, how many of them have hit the heights they did last season? GSM because of his goals? Coker maybe. Collin hasn’t, Bridge hasn’t, Husin hasn’t and so forth.

Kev bent over backwards to help out some lads during that awful period, including putting his hand in his pocket to help financially with bills, petrol in the car, payments, mortgages and so on, and hasn’t be rewarded with performances this season. I won’t name names of people he helped, apart from Kensdale, so what he did and his departure was a massive slap in the face to Kev and everyone else that helped him. Do not underestimate that situation.

Losing Cards was another huge blow. The delay in takeover meant we missed out on our top targets in the summer as well as previously. I can list off names again of players we have missed out on because of the embargo’s etc.

Kev has always had something tied behind his back whilst he has been here, and at times more things than one. Things are slowly returning to normal, but we aren’t there yet.

For what it’s worth, Kev knows the squad need freshening up. He knows what the players have been through here and maybe we need more who don’t carry those scars. He knows we need more pace, more guile, more creativity and a higher output at both ends of the pitch.

We have targets, and I believe we have some money available too. If Kev can do what we wants and more 2/3 on and bring 4/5 in, things will be looking up.

As I say, Kev shouldn’t be immune from criticism, and neither should the players now. Maybe previously they all would be immune, but I think we can genuinely discuss and debate these things again, and this thread has had good inputs from both sides of the argument.

We all want the same thing, the Club, the management, the players and the fans. Let’s hope we all get to see it together.

Thank you, although I think Kevin Maher need to put the club first and pick players who deserve to stay in the team, instead of being loyal to like of Husin who is off form this season.

 

[Tommy2holes]

I have and for example v Charlton we was great. There has been lots of dross too I know. I personally can’t believe this is a discussion YET he hasn’t had a proper summer of say this is a free pass barring relegation. I think we will have a run at some point and end up 11-14th area. Then next season build and push for players . Kev has surely earned some credit in the bank over the last few years when most would have walked.

I agree with that to a certain point.

If we finish 14th this season I will still see that as abject failure for SUFC.

If Maher has a free reign on signings and full pre season next season and it fails he can't blame anyone other than himself.

The fact remains that he is currently residing over the worst team in our history. That is fact. 3 point above the drop to the NLS at this stage of the season proves that.

 

[Shrimperjohn]

Had we signed some of our top targets, we wouldn’t have signed some of the players we did.

Ollie Pearce had agreed to sign for us. If he signs, do we sign Walker? I think so still, but we don’t bring in Bonne.

Gubbins was a priority target, so that’s good.

Not sure Wind would have been signed if we’d signed our top target, which was the RWB that signed for York with Pearce, his name escapes me.

Never got a name for our top target as a creative midfielder, but we wouldn’t have Moncur here if we’d signed him.

Going back to previous summers, Justham was a top target and had agreed to sign for us. Jeacock wouldn’t be here now.

Andy Dallas agreed to sign for us TWICE, Josh Kelly was desperate to sign here too.

We don’t know how they’d have all got on, but surely it would have been better signing our top targets, as opposed to getting 4/5th choice. We wouldn’t have been making “calculated risks” with Bonne & Moncur.

As I say, we don’t know how it would have all panned out, but the embargo and delayed takeover has affected things despite what some people think.

As you’ve said, and I’ve said numerous times, Kev and the amigos are not immune from criticism, of course they aren’t, but they aren’t the only ones who should be getting criticism.

Walker had been hugely disappointing… one of the 20% in Stan’s terminology….

 

[Shrimperjohn]

Losing both Cardwell and Kensdale in the same week has ruined this season. The latter brought the ball from the back into midfield to enable more progressive possession, bringing out the best of our 3-5-2 system, and Cardwell was our top scorer last season. Both huge losses.

We'll be fine and hopefully some new signings will improve things. Next season, when Kev has no embargoes to deal with, has a proper shot in the transfer market and, gasp, a full pre-season, that is when he should be fully judged.

Spot on …

 

[BoyWonder2]

Walker had been hugely disappointing… one of the 20% in Stan’s terminology….

Whilst he hasn’t hit top gear yet, I think he is someone that can come good.

 

[Southend Elvis]

I'm in my mid 50s, and I can remember watching international It's a Knockout, hoping GB would destroy all the other nations taking part. My mate always reminds me he was in a local it's a knockout team... what a guy!
I always want to win, no matter what I do or watch.
I wonder if those of supporters of a younger age are happy to just compete with the hope of winning, that's why we have quite a split board on this. Maybe this came from the time our schools wanted schools sports to be come non competive, saying everyone is a winner who takes part.
Win at all cost, and second place is losing, that's my mantra. This is why I find it hard to see that fellow supporters are happy with mid table mediocrity.
Up the blues, and turn my frown upside down.

 

[dusterman]

I'm in my mid 50s, and I can remember watching international It's a Knockout, hoping GB would destroy all the other nations taking part. My mate always reminds me he was in a local it's a knockout team... what a guy!
I always want to win, no matter what I do or watch.
I wonder if those of supporters of a younger age are happy to just compete with the hope of winning, that's why we have quite a split board on this. Maybe this came from the time our schools wanted schools sports to be come non competive, saying everyone is a winner who takes part.
Win at all cost, and second place is losing, that's my mantra. This is why I find it hard to see that fellow supporters are happy with mid table mediocrity.
Up the blues, and turn my frown upside down.

I don’t think anyone is happy, let alone Kev and team. We just understand the damage done by the old regime and expected a lean spell at the start of this season. It’s been worse than potentially feared by the loss of key players. I’m still happy to have my club. That will wear off but we were so close to the brink that it will be a while.

 

[GBJ]

This is why I find it hard to see that fellow supporters are happy with mid table mediocrity.

Literally not one person has said they’re happy with it.

It’s just that people with differing views don’t feel the need to beat the war drum over it, mainly because they understand the extenuating circumstances and the effects that they’ve had.

 

[StanCollymore]

Not sure how I feel about this post. Stan, to all intents and purposes, completely disappeared. Not even a hint of a mention on socials to results (even when doing well) so felt a little personal. Comes back after many months and has a little dig at the recruitment…

Now I fully backed Stan’s involvement from day 1 and still believe him being part of the set up is a missed opportunity. However, this has a hint of something about it I’m not keen on.

Why dig at recruitment when we needed bodies in to fill the squad? How would he have negotiated this during yet another embargo? Is it because it deviates from the model Stan suggested (and I fully backed) or because he has a personal issue with someone here?

Nothing personal here. In my post my opinion of Kev, Daz, Benno and Tom are crystal clear. Also said I have no idea what COSU plan is as I'm not privvy to it.

My view is there's a plan that was devised for Southend, based on successful implementation at other clubs, that if continued with, the club would reap the benefits. I have no idea of its still being implemented but looking at club roles, incomings, outgoings, results and "noise" from key people, I'd suggest the strategy no longer exists. And that's fine, a new ownership structure has the right to do things as they like.

A poster asked "what would Stan make of things", so I've given my thoughts.

On a personal level I like Daz, Kev, Benno and Tom. The only consortium members I've met ( 2 long term supporters) I always got on well with, and I hope the others are a resounding success. I can't have beef with people I've never met beyond that, it's just not who I am.

But do I think a plan that was bearing fruit ( the only measure was player relative success and results under a year long embargo and financial issues) has been somewhat abandoned for a less egalitarian football department that had 6 people providing checks and balances for every player who came in and had clear, defined roles?

Yes.

 

[IloveShrimp]

I'm in my mid 50s, and I can remember watching international It's a Knockout, hoping GB would destroy all the other nations taking part. My mate always reminds me he was in a local it's a knockout team... what a guy!
I always want to win, no matter what I do or watch.
I wonder if those of supporters of a younger age are happy to just compete with the hope of winning, that's why we have quite a split board on this. Maybe this came from the time our schools wanted schools sports to be come non competive, saying everyone is a winner who takes part.
Win at all cost, and second place is losing, that's my mantra. This is why I find it hard to see that fellow supporters are happy with mid table mediocrity.
Up the blues, and turn my frown upside down.

I'm in my 60's, I was taught '1st is 1st, second is nowhere' by my dad.