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The same can be said about those that choose to believe what Rm says..as Ken pointed out, he is just reporting what he was told, it is up the the individual to decide whether it is true or not.

That is very true. My point is we all know how much in debt nearly all football clubs are and how much of a struggle it is. Nobody knows the day to day running, what goes on, what bills need paying and when, how much work goes on in the background regarding the stadium etc solicitors and the like. There must be so much involved yet all people can say is RM is mugging everyone off.

It would be a great idea if RM could have someone like Ken shadow him for a day just to see what actually happens. A fly on the wall documentary if you will. I predict that a lot of people would have a different view after.
 
And rab you were saying beforehand we will be feeling renewed positivity pretty soon. Are you as sure? You seemed to sidestep this among your list of reasons. A liitle self-spin to deflect away your positive opinions thoughts in the last week perhaps?:winking:

I stand by my original assertion. The 'pretty soon' is not right now but it will be welcome progress and will give a glimpse of blue sky through the dark clouds that overshadow us currently.

What I hope we all do in the interim is find greater unity and generate our own positivity. I firmly believe that a strong fan base is going to play a vital role in the future of the Blues.
 
How on earth is he allowed to treat other clubs this way...I am sure he would not like it if it were the other way around and also if we are after a loan player from one of these clubs that PS has "identified" you can imagine that clubs reaction to us.

People wonder why the clubs name gets drags through the dirt, well here is a classic example as to why.

Indeed.

I dont care if its a "few thousand" or a few quid. Why have we not handed over money to clubs when we have pre-sold tickets for a game at their stadium?

That really is very naughty. And will result in us not receiving any tickets for away games before the day. Not to mention damaging our reputation even further. Oh and presenting us with an embargo of course.
 
Indeed.

I dont care if its a "few thousand" or a few quid. Why have we not handed over money to clubs when we have pre-sold tickets for a game at their stadium?

That really is very naughty. And will result in us not receiving any tickets for away games before the day. Not to mention damaging our reputation even further. Oh and presenting us with an embargo of course.

There's no embargo here... nothing to see... move on...:dim:
 
Oh please... McAllister is hardly got clubs swarming around him at the moment from the look of it. If PS didnt fancy him, I'm sure he would tell him straight. I very much doubt we'd come up with a weak excuse to pass on a player like that.

:nope:

It could not be an excuse. Chances are that we're going to be in this position for a fair chunk of the season. If Sturrock knows that bills will be paid to temporarily allow the club the ability to bring in a single player then that has to make him extremely cautious about the choice of player to bring in.

Were we not under these constraints we may have taken a punt on McAllister. As we are under these constraints Sturrock needs to make sure that the player or players he brings in have to be the right ones. There's no room for a bad signing.
 
If this was true, why did Ron not lift the embargo to allow us to sign McCallister.



Then why have most clubs not been in front of the high court judge once, let alone enough times to warrant the last chance saloon comments we receive. At the end of the day, how other clubs run themselves shouldn't be our bench mark, everyone else is **** so we can afford to be **** is a terribly poor answer from a businessman as to why we are in financial difficulty. It's a playground response.



This at least sounds positive, although typically the one positive (reducing our losses) is obviously caveated by Ron with 'hoped'. It's still alarmingly high as well.



It's funny how Ron uses other clubs as a benchmark for our failings in cashflow, (everyone does it) but in building the new stadium, he doesn't mention the numerous clubs that have started and completed their own new stadium projects, since our new stadium project has been in production. We seem to be the only club to have encountered difficulties and suffered from the economy, whilst we conveniently ignore the fact that multiple new stadiums seem to be popping up, up and down the country, many to clubs with smaller income than our own, quite bizarre that so many clubs achieve this considering we all suffer the same cash flow problems. #Ronspin.



Ron may cite hindsight, I think most of us realise it's just greed.

Ken, I appreciate this may appearing scathing to your efforts. It's not, I really appreciate your (and Paul's) efforts to bring us closer to the club, and to improve the comms between us, I just feel Ron is so full of **** (we can call it spin if we like), that he's now incapable of even answering a simple question without trying to twist it. Maybe the cynic in me has been bitten too many times by false promises and my views are blinkered, but to my mind there's just too many holes in every message that Ron delivers. Again, thank for your efforts, and the updates too. But Ron is still a long way off of being truly open to the fans.

Excellent post Wes.

Particularly the bit in bold.

Ron can blame the "banking collapse" as much as he likes, but as you say many, many other clubs, some much smaller than our own have managed to build nice FOUR sided stadiums. In the time it has taken us to not even get the plans passed. That won't wash any more. The fact is, he does not have the money to get this started, let alone see it through to completion. As I posted yesterday. Some £7.6m needs to be given to the council either before or shortly after completion of the stadium, before it can be "operational" where the hell is Ron going to find that sort of cash?

I really can see it either not happening at all, or ending up being a half built 3 sided monstrosity. Due to his lack of funds.

The same goes for the day to day operation of the club. It's time he put it up for sale IMO. And before the usual questions of "who will buy it?" pop up. I don't know. But, until he puts it on the market we won't know will we. If he does (for a sensible price, bearing in mind our net asset value is well in the negative £m's) and nobody comes forward, then fair enough I will agree we are perhaps stuck with each other.
 
Indeed.

I dont care if its a "few thousand" or a few quid. Why have we not handed over money to clubs when we have pre-sold tickets for a game at their stadium?

Basic cash management for a struggling business. Get cash in as early as possible. Pay it out as late as possible.

It's not pretty, it screws people over, but it's what struggling businesses need to do to stay alive.
 
The reasons you list all come under 1. 1 full reason. Nothing said about the line of sight becoming ever clearer which was stated last week. Nothing to back it up. I see you haven't listed positives to do with stadium, cash flow, embargoes etc. Just to say Liaisons can be better between Ron and Fans which you spread over into 4 seperate reasons when it all comes under the same thing.

Ok BHCb. Whether I should have made it one point or 1a, 1b etc is rather beside the point. I tried to look at last nights meeting positively and identify the plus points.

Before the meeting took place the usual suspects were not prepared to accept anything 'learned', as has been proven by a number of posts this morning. I was luke warm to the meeting. The fact remains the same that whilst the fans badger and bicker among themselves or only go over the same negative points then we are not going to be a credible force.

Those that are so anti-RM should remember that he is the one winning whilst we waste our time with furore and hostility.

I do not subscribe to the thought that RM is the demon developer. He has his agenda and he has the right to, but I believe he wants to deliver on his promises. As a collective we need to see him succeed and need to make sure we can influence proceedings and keep him to his word.

TBV needs to bang that drum bloody loud as a rallying call.
 
How on earth is he allowed to treat other clubs this way...I am sure he would not like it if it were the other way around and also if we are after a loan player from one of these clubs that PS has "identified" you can imagine that clubs reaction to us.

People wonder why the clubs name gets drags through the dirt, well here is a classic example as to why.

Do we know for sure that SUFC are an exception in this? If they are then you're right but I'm sure that Tampa Blue the other day made a post implying that a lot of Clubs do this.
 
I think most fans will have the following opinion;

1) Ron Martin will always tell lies.
2) Everyone else will always tell the truth.

That simply isn't always the case but until everyone accepts that to be honest there is little point in RM saying anything at all.

I for one am grateful for Paul and Ken's efforts, cheers guys.

Something else to consider as well, to those who think PS is a mouthpiece for Ron. That is a pretty insulting remark to make about someone with Sturrocks history and pedigree. There is a difference between being a mouthpiece/yes man and toeing the party line, which is what is happening here. The players, directors and management are all aware that as a club they must be united. You can't have one or two loose cannons trying to bring the club down from the inside. This is why Alex Revell was so upset when Mr King spoke out of turn a couple of years ago... If you remember Revell's comment at the time, "I thought we were all in this together".

If the club was in dire straits with no prospect of recovery, no-one would be really sticking around. There must be something good at the end of this otherwise nothing that is currently going on makes sense.

Sainsburys WILL happen. Fossets Farm WILL happen. Keep the faith.
 
Ok BHCb. Whether I should have made it one point or 1a, 1b etc is rather beside the point. I tried to look at last nights meeting positively and identify the plus points.

Before the meeting took place the usual suspects were not prepared to accept anything 'learned', as has been proven by a number of posts this morning. I was luke warm to the meeting. The fact remains the same that whilst the fans badger and bicker among themselves or only go over the same negative points then we are not going to be a credible force.

Those that are so anti-RM should remember that he is the one winning whilst we waste our time with furore and hostility.

I do not subscribe to the thought that RM is the demon developer. He has his agenda and he has the right to, but I believe he wants to deliver on his promises. As a collective we need to see him succeed and need to make sure we can influence proceedings and keep him to his word.

TBV needs to bang that drum bloody loud as a rallying call.

He is certainly not "winning"

The bloke has eye-watering debts and he is no closer to his Ron World retirement fund.

He needs us, more than we need him. If he goes under, he is screwed for life. If we go under, we will be back. That is the difference.
 
He is certainly not "winning"

The bloke has eye-watering debts and he is no closer to his Ron World retirement fund.

He needs us, more than we need him. If he goes under, he is screwed for life. If we go under, we will be back. That is the difference.

I am just trying to point out he is winning in the sense that he has no cohesive credible opposition. A few chants or a minority of people protesting outside his house is not putting pressure on him or supporting him.

There are some serious brains on this site and plans need to be made. Whether they are plans of support or a battle plan is down to the collective but as sure as eggs are eggs, as supporters, we are doing little more than zip to improve the clubs lot.
 
I am just trying to point out he is winning in the sense that he has no cohesive credible opposition. A few chants or a minority of people protesting outside his house is not putting pressure on him or supporting him.

There are some serious brains on this site and plans need to be made. Whether they are plans of support or a battle plan is down to the collective but as sure as eggs are eggs, as supporters, we are doing little more than zip to improve the clubs lot.

That's fair comment.

Would you suggest a plan to "support" or a plan to "battle" ?

FWIW, I would like to see Ron put the club up for sale. And for a realistic fee. See where that takes us. At least then if parties come forward, we have alternative options to discuss.
 
Indeed.

I dont care if its a "few thousand" or a few quid. Why have we not handed over money to clubs when we have pre-sold tickets for a game at their stadium?

That really is very naughty. And will result in us not receiving any tickets for away games before the day. Not to mention damaging our reputation even further. Oh and presenting us with an embargo of course.

Damaging our reputation even further sounds a difficult ask, but I'm sure he's up to it.

Seems like the Bank of HMRC has been replaced by the Bank of Fellow Football Clubs, albeit on a smaller scale.
 
That's fair comment.

Would you suggest a plan to "support" or a plan to "battle" ?

I think initially its about plans. Plans that help the club move forward. I think RM would welcome positive involvement/intervention and if he doesn't then the line in the sand is drawn and battle commences. Collectively.
 
Basic cash management for a struggling business. Get cash in as early as possible. Pay it out as late as possible.

It's not pretty, it screws people over, but it's what struggling businesses need to do to stay alive.

If we have stooped to the level of withholding "a few thousand" in ticket money from it's rightful club, then Ron really does need to put out an SOS. That does not sit right with me. And is very concerning indeed.
 
I think initially its about plans. Plans that help the club move forward. I think RM would welcome positive involvement/intervention and if he doesn't then the line in the sand is drawn and battle commences. Collectively.

Ok, so then would you welcome a collective call from the fans, for Ron to publicly state that the club is "for sale" ?
 
Ken, in your opinion how was RM, I don't mean his answers but his demeanour, body language and general being? As ever I don't think we have learnt much from his responses but to you does he seem like a man winning or losing?
 

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