SUFC: The Future SUFC up for sale

[rigsby]

I believe that you are right. I also believe that if it were now, council's are generally more socially conscious and less inclined to sell off assets, with long term leases being offered instead.

But, importantly, Roots Hall belonged to the club, and if my history is correct, our fans in the day bought the land and built Roots Hall for the benefit of the club. What has happened in the last 25 years has been nothing short of scandalous!

Yes but RH was also handed over and huge debts run up against it before Ron arrived.

When I was a young teenage lad on the terrace the older so called wiser lads convinced me that we only had to get shot of the awful greedy Rubins. 31000 v Liverpool proved we should be playing top flight footy.....It certainly couldn't get worse.

Well it did. We have had some fun but very costly trips to 2nd tier and our debt has grown as parts of the stadium has either been sold or falls down all around us.

Along with the council and Sainsbury's we had had many people/groups milk us and completely take the p**s. If your old enough and honest enough then Ron is just the icing on the cake.

The rather childish its all one mans fault and anyone but Ron attitude is actually dangerous for our future. Just like a battered woman, not learning your lesson and appearing vulnerable makes us a target for the next wrong'un.

If only people had used their vote rather than be brave on a keyboard and slag the trust or those that actually still keep the club alive. Too late to be fussy now, any rope will do for drowning man. Will I party when we are saved and promised the world.....No I won't.... I have learnt the hard way, time is the best judge when it comes to all things football.

 

[rowe23]

If the political will was there, Southend Council could, in theory, try to slap a Compulsory Purchase Order on Roots Hall on the grounds that it is "in the community interest" for there to continue to be a professional football club in the city. It could then recoup the cost of the CPO by re-selling or leasing Roots Hall to new, competent owners of Southend United Football Club. It would ensure a means of survival for the Club and derail Ron's money-making plans.

Sadly, I don't see that political will, so it's never going to happen.

I have just asked Paul the same question on the shrimpers trust thread. We are not sure if it’s possible, but they are going to raise again tonight to see what the options are. Time is if the Essenes as they say, so that could be one factor. But even if we have a club with no league membership and in effect no club. I think we should still pursue it to hurt Martin the same way he has hurt this club.

 

[WestStandBlue]

If the political will was there, Southend Council could, in theory, try to slap a Compulsory Purchase Order on Roots Hall on the grounds that it is "in the community interest" for there to continue to be a professional football club in the city. It could then recoup the cost of the CPO by re-selling or leasing Roots Hall to new, competent owners of Southend United Football Club. It would ensure a means of survival for the Club and derail Ron's money-making plans.

Sadly, I don't see that political will, so it's never going to happen.

A CPO will take a lot longer than the 42 day adjournment

Plus, who is going to fund the CPO process and cost to purchase roots hall?

 

[Beefy]

Maybe maybe not but it does potentially give some bargaining power and also when (lets say Kimura) go to sell they will sell all 100% which make is more attractive to a lot of people rather than 70% with a lot of little shareholders

It doesn't make it more attractive though. The only thing that matters is those 70%. Buying 30% doesn't get you anything other than a seat at the AGM.

 

[Boreham Blue]

So KIMURA want to buy, RM wants to sell to them, KIMURA come out publicly with intentions, blues fans support and add pressure to RM and away we go!

Unless you believe others on here that say he doesn't want to sell to them and never has.

 

[West Stand]

Forget the herd of elephants still in the room( namely HMRC, Creditors and the courts) there are two significant others namely the NL and Roots Hall and they are so intertwined as to be one and the same.

Clubs that want to have to participate in the NL have to meet all sorts of criteria. Forget for one second paying your bills on time, but you also have to file returns with the statutory authorities, produce up to date financial information but going into a new season there is a requirement to give simple assurances about funding and guarantees about the up coming season.

I may have missed something but with the current sate of SUFC and its finances I can’t see how even the most basic of financial and reporting obligations can be met add to that based on what others are saying then basic ground grading standards at Roots Hall seem to be questionable.

Some months ago I pointed out that the NL could easily expel SUFC only to be told that if that were to happen all sorts of legal challenges would follow.

I still believe the NL presents a big hurdle and they will have seen the constant flow of WUO , the continued failure to pay HMRC on time and that is key because in or around 2010 HMRC reached an agreement with the various football leagues and part of that agreement required the leagues to take action against clubs that defaulted hence why the leagues introduced reporting requirements around HMRC debts and as witnessed the number of WUO issued by HMRC against football clubs has significantly reduced

SUFC is as we all know tottering and even though the adjournment gives a certain amount of extra time the NL will now have all the information that they will need to make an informed decision and unlike the courts who do all the can to avoid pulling the plug on individual football clubs the FA and the NL in particular will be concerned with the potential damage to the wider football community if they allow the situation to continue

 

[londonblue]

Is there some sort of argument to suggest that, as in other clubs with appalling owners, the Trust temporarily take control of the club, with a view to just stabilizing short term, so the club gets to start the season - then with some strategic management plan to both raise funds for day to day running and the ongoing investment. With a bit of stability, the club would be in a better position to attract larger external investment, and i am guessing that the council will bend over backwards to help with the small matter of needing somewhere to play longer term. With the right partnership between a well run club, without the millstone of DIRECT narcissistic control, and a solid plan in place, the council will be able to help .

Working for a local authority in London, i can confirm that councils love football clubs because they are such a huge community asset, and I am sure that there will be a way to wiggle away from the cancer of RM. Longer term a solution that does not rely on Roots Hall or FF is needed. He has basically stolen the clubs assets, from under our noses, which the council will not look kindly on, so they can make his life extremely difficult!

With all that in mind, the club could survive. Whether it is in the NL, or starting a rebuild from lower levels, it can be done. It is whether people want to rescue "our" club, or a new club is really down to how much energy and vision people have to look at alternative solutions. Once there is a workable vision, selling the idea will raise profile and some money to make it happen.

I get your point, but I don't think it's necessary. The issue isn't the running of the club as I think TL does a good a job as he's able/allowed to do. The issue is a lack of funds so without some working capital the Trust will be in the same boat as TL, but (perhaps) without the experience.

 

[londonblue]

I honestly, think! The ONLY way we get a deal done, and get one done quickly (by KIMURA) is they publicly come out, they state the offer on the table, they state what they’re not happy with, and they state what needs to be done to get said deal done.

At the end of the day, the NDA has been breached left right and centre now. And if RM is “motivated” to sell, he will sell no matter if an NDA is breached or not. It will allow everyone to see RM true intentions.

Simon Jackson who has been posting on Instagram is an employee of KIMURA, I know people on here are in direct conversations with KIMURA C Suite and an announcement was expected last Friday, from one of the two offers on the table.

1. Buy the club with out the assets for X and take the debt
2. Buy the club and every asset it owned for X

I know there has been a lot of claims that RM has lowered the stadium from 21K to 16K for personal greed. It’s actually due to building costs.

When the stadium was designed and planned it was done so on the basis a stadium seat costs between £3,000 and £4,000 and the total cost of a stadium is X.

Since then, materials and cost of labour have shot up. Lowering the number of seats allow the book sot balance. If RM sells the club with all its assets (including FF) he is still committed to building FF stadium within that and having to sell the stadium at a massively discounted rate.

As without the stadium, he can’t develop the houses as there is no community interest.

I would say the time is today, for KIMURA to go.

Yes or No we want to buy it or we don't

Here is deal 1, here is deal 2 on the table

We’re ready to go on this time frame, we just need this

And then watch the pressure rise on RM from all corners, not just the ones who want to protest day in day out.

But that's because he doesn't have the money to handle the price increases and he needs the houses in the main stand to help pay for it. Other people may not need that as they have more money than him.

 

[ms brush]

Yes but RH was also handed over and huge debts run up against it before Ron arrived.

When I was a young teenage lad on the terrace the older so called wiser lads convinced me that we only had to get shot of the awful greedy Rubins. 31000 v Liverpool proved we should be playing top flight footy.....It certainly couldn't get worse.

Well it did. We have had some fun but very costly trips to 2nd tier and our debt has grown as the stadium has either been sold or falls down all around us.

Along with the council and Sainsbury's we had had many people/groups milk us and completely take the p**s. If your old enough and honest enough then Ron is just the icing on the cake.

The rather childish its all one mans fault and anyone but Ron attitude is actually dangerous for our future. Just like a battered woman, not learning your lesson and appearing vulnerable makes us a target for the next wrong'un.

If only people had used their vote rather than be brave on a keyboard and slag the trust or those that actually still keep the club alive. Too late to be fussy now, any rope will do for drowning man. Will I party when we are saved and promised the world.....No I won't.... I have learnt the hard way, time is the best judge when it comes to all things football.

I cant disagree with anything you have said here, and I remember going to RH back in the day too, before the flats and the South Stand was built, and it was a marvel to behold. RM is the latest in a very long like of "wrong un's" to be custodians of the club. What I am saying here is no matter what mess was inherited when RM took the club over, there has been 25 years to turn things around - and it is not just one person's mess here, but more that this one individual (with help from others) has compounded the mess because despite the rhetoric, personal interests were not aligned with the football club's. It suited for a while, when the successess were rolling in, but I have been worried for a very long time about the club's ownership and the complete lack of transparency.

My point is, council's typically do not trust property developers, which is why such huge obligations are placed on new developments under Unilateral Undertakings, S106 agrements and Social Value agreements. In the council I work for, much of the new development of housing is now done in-house, and we manage the contracts. In general, many councils do place big barriers and huge obligations on the developers, so a football club, which is a bona fide community asset really has no place in all of this. However, because of the land space and all of the infrastructure needed by a professional football club, there is significant money to be made from the land assets from ownership. That is why RM and his predecessors were involved in the first place, and why we are not an attractive prospect to any prospective buyer without the attached land and planning permissions that go with it.

For what it's worth, I think the Trust would be a superb custodian of the club. I just wish I had the time to be involved.

 

[SeldomSeenShrimper]

Where are the fans ownership?

You can view everyone on here

Here's what I just found on pomanda.com - southend-united-football-club-limited(the)

Southend United Football Club Limited(the) is a live company located in AL1 3RD with a company number 00089767. View Southend United Football Club Limited(the)’s address, directors, shareholders, financials and filings.

pomanda.com

 

[rigsby]

I thought B&L was purchased with the Stan transfer money? So, owned by the club (SUFC). Not one of RMs web of companies*.

*that said all of the clubs assets were transferred, in exchange for his personal debt over the years.

Yes quite possibly. But I do remember it being council owned and like so many other assets. Sold of cheap to someone with the right handshake.

Still happens to this day. I noticed the cinema project has now been shelved at the Seaway car park. Remember how quick that was sold and PP granted. never mind the details we will agree it and sort them out later was an obvious red flag.

It was that scheme that blocked the BL scheme and ultimately lead to B&L now becoming residential rather than retail.......Everyones a wealthy winner, except football fans who paid for it all.

 

[londonblue]

Thanks, 3rd time I’ve been told of my faux-par (I read it as him selling 70% of his shareholding, d’oh!)

So, when he’s gone, he’s gone…

you mean faux-pas.



(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

As it happens, I hadn't seen the other replies before I posted. If I had I wouldn't have bothered as you'd already had your answer...twice!

 

[londonblue]

People in KIMURA (Employees and C Suite) have been leaking stuff to people on this forum for weeks. But again that just becomes “another ITK posters bit of info”.

I would suggest, something has to happen publicly or this just drags and drags and drags! Until we die!

I don't know who all of them are, but the one I do know hasn't breached the NDA. They've been very careful with what they've said, i.e. nothing about the sale itself.

 

[Rob1920]

I believe that you are right. I also believe that if it were now, council's are generally more socially conscious and less inclined to sell off assets, with long term leases being offered instead.

But, importantly, Roots Hall belonged to the club, and if my history is correct, our fans in the day bought the land and built Roots Hall for the benefit of the club. What has happened in the last 25 years has been nothing short of scandalous!

I’m pretty sure all the clubs physical assets, primarily RH and B&L, were mortgaged to the hilt before RM took over. The banks were about to call in the debt which would have finished us, and RM took it over and much as it pains me to say it, at that particular time, did save us. What he’s done in the last 10 years however has completely undone any positives and has left us right back where we were when he took it on. I can’t say worse, because we were as good as dead back then too.

 

[tommy tucker]

I want the club sold BULL**** ron .If yoiu was going to sell the club you would have taken the offers on the table .You want the beat for the club BULL**** you what whatts best for RON MARTIN .So stop making statments you and we all know is not true .We can all past your lies The only ones that cant is the courts .

 

[Westcliff DGS]

It doesn't make it more attractive though. The only thing that matters is those 70%. Buying 30% doesn't get you anything other than a seat at the AGM.

I meant more attractive if you own 100% so if you buy the 30% as you say you get the seat at the AGM. For Kimura they could buy the 30% and then buy the rest. Just a thought

 

[defender05]

I might have been reading the post wrong that was later deleted on Instagram but I'd does seem like the hold up is because as it stands without part of the FF package Kimura aren't going to make any money.

I hope I read it wrong but everyone knew going to buy the club it will make a loss until the new stadium and training ground are up and running properly.

A few people seemed to have been leaked bits and pieces about the bid but it would be nice if we knew exactly what they wanted and how it was going to be funded. I keep reading people saying they have access to large amounts of money but I can't see the lenders not wanting a return on their money.

 

[Napster]

Peter Butler - must be a different one from the Ex-Blue (believe his middle name was James)?

Didn’t Phil Brown own shares at one time too?

Yeah different Peter Butler - somehow he amassed shares from different people without really trying. John Soapy Bath is on that list but he doesn’t go anymore I don’t think.

 

[JD]

The overall problem, as I see it, is not actually the sale of the club but the deal for the new stadium which Ron conveniently failed to mention at all in his statement, despite the fact that he has said many times previously (as a way of justifying the building of it) that the club is not viable without a new stadium.

I also assume that so many homes are needed as enabling development to pay for the stadium, so presumably these either need to be included as part of the stadium deal or, if Ron keeps the profit on these, the price of the stadium needs to be reduced accordingly (otherwise he’s being paid twice).

We don’t know if what he’s asking for the stadium is unreasonably high or if what Kimura is offering to pay is unreasonably low.

We just have to hope that there will be a compromise on this, otherwise the club will die.

The point about being paid twice is a very good one.
Ron paid circa £4m (I think) for everything back when he acquired the stadium and club (and debts).
Developing Roots Hall has always been the aim, and the football club enables this.
The two developments, RH and FF, once completed, generate significant profit which pay for the stadium.
How good would it be would be that the stadium becomes a trust owned asset (gifted), which could be leased for a nominal value to new club owners, who get to use the full site for income generation, with responsibility for upkeep?
Question is, why isn’t it that simple, and does Ron get enough payback from everything else?

 

[hlane17]

I meant more attractive if you own 100% so if you buy the 30% as you say you get the seat at the AGM. For Kimura they could buy the 30% and then buy the rest. Just a thought

Buying the 30% would be a very difficult task. It was something explored when Stan first got involved I think? Some of the shares are stuck with executors and finding all of these shareholders would be a real pain.