Steve Tilson

[WESTY_SUFC]

I would say Tilson got lucky with Eastwood as he didn't even want him..

This is utter b*llox. Tilson did want him FACT, he picked him out on loan. Tilson didnt want to budge when Grays decided to triple their asking price which was agreed before the Swansea game. Ron then stepped in and offered to pay the extra.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

This is utter b*llox. Tilson did want him FACT, he picked him out on loan. Tilson didnt want to budge when Grays decided to triple their asking price which was agreed before the Swansea game. Ron then stepped in and offered to pay the extra.

If thats the case fair enough, but you can't argue the fact without Eastwood we would have gone nowhere. Well done to Tilly on finding Eastwood but it was Eastwood who got us 2 promotions, not Tilly.

 

[OldBlueLady]

If thats the case fair enough, but you can't argue the fact without Eastwood we would have gone nowhere. Well done to Tilly on finding Eastwood but it was Eastwood who got us 2 promotions, not Tilly.

That's bollox. Without Eastwood's goals we wouldn't have made it, you're right, but it was Tilson's team that got us promotion, and Eastwood was a part of that.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

That's bollox. Without Eastwood's goals we wouldn't have made it, you're right, but it was Tilson's team that got us promotion, and Eastwood was a part of that.

So its not bollox then. It was Eastwood's goals that got us the promotions and without them we wouldnt have been promoted.

 

[NZamba Legend]

So its not bollox then. It was Eastwood's goals that got us the promotions and without them we wouldnt have been promoted.

You can't reduce the double promotion to Eastwood's goals alone because if it wasn't for the manager the striker wouldn't have been at the club in the first place. Also Eastwood needed the right combination of players and tactics to become so successful (he hadn't done it before, after all) and that's largely down to the management staff. Almost as important to that team were Gower and Maher and they were signed by Wignall and Martin respectively, so where does that leave us? In fact, I'd go as far to say that Wignall did lay some of the groundwork for Tilson's eventual success although he could hardly be described as a success himself. It's great to talk about the past but it's way too simplistic to reduce historical events to single causes.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

You can't reduce the double promotion to Eastwood's goals alone because if it wasn't for the manager the striker wouldn't have been at the club in the first place. Also Eastwood needed the right combination of players and tactics to become so successful (he hadn't done it before, after all) and that's largely down to the management staff. Almost as important to that team were Gower and Maher and they were signed by Wignall and Martin respectively, so where does that leave us? In fact, I'd go as far to say that Wignall did lay some of the groundwork for Tilson's eventual success although he could hardly be described as a success himself. It's great to talk about the past but it's way too simplistic to reduce historical events to single causes.

Some valid points. Look what happened though after Eastwood scored that goal against Man ure. He just wanted his big move and he stopped trying so hard. Then after he had gone, it felt like we were in freefall. I know we got to the play offs the season after relegation from the championship but we were lucky that season. We never replaced Eastwood and we quickly sunk back to where we came from.

 

[OldBlueLady]

So its not bollox then. It was Eastwood's goals that got us the promotions and without them we wouldnt have been promoted.

No. Eastwood wouldn't have got the goals he did without the team that played around him. Eastwood wasn't part of the defence that stood pretty firm for much of the seasons.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

No. Eastwood wouldn't have got the goals he did without the team that played around him. Eastwood wasn't part of the defence that stood pretty firm for much of the seasons.

Really? A lot of Eastwood's goals were of his own fruition

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

How can one player be responsible for a double promotion without the input of team mates and management? If that player went on to do pretty much nothing elsewhere then the point is pretty much proven. A combination of factors meant we were promoted one season then won the league the next and I feel truly grateful to the players, management and fans of that time and can see no reason to doubt any of them. As a southend fan you HAVE to see those 2 seasons as beautiful in every aspect and enjoy them for ever more. Why would anyone want to pick them apart? At the end of next season we may have achieved that again and if that is the case I will feel the same about the here and now and won't be looking back saying that without Tomlin the management were a heap of crap. We won 2 promotions - live the dream.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Really? A lot of Eastwood's goals were of his own fruition

They may have looked that way, but if you go back and watch the video you'll see how they were created by the off-the-ball movement of players like Mark Bentley, Wayne Gray and Luke Guttridge. Freddy still had a lot to do, but he couldn't have done it without those runs off the ball, as he showed in the championship when we stopped running off the ball.

Anyway, those promotions were far more built on our defence. Thank you Spencer Prior.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Anyway, those promotions were far more built on our defence. Thank you Spencer Prior.

And Darryl Flahavan :winking:

 

[davewebbsbrain]

They may have looked that way, but if you go back and watch the video you'll see how they were created by the off-the-ball movement of players like Mark Bentley, Wayne Gray and Luke Guttridge. Freddy still had a lot to do, but he couldn't have done it without those runs off the ball, as he showed in the championship when we stopped running off the ball.

Anyway, those promotions were far more built on our defence. Thank you Spencer Prior.

That's actually really interesting. Isn't that exactly what Tomlin has been doing for Britt all season yet up until he started scoring goals, Tomlin was viewed as rubbish by many on here.

Anyway, I digress. My whole point originally wasn't to undermine Tilly and his achievements but to look at what may or may not have happened had Sturrock been in charge, just to compare how much Tilly achieved and look at how much of that was down to Tilly or down to the team.

We had massive success but Tilly never seemed to have a plan B, made late late subs, didn't man manage players very well. Had a few things been different, like using Hooper better etc, would we still be in the championship with Tilly at the helm.

 

[SARF]

We went on a 8? Game winning streak in league one early in the season which took from mid table to the top
All without Eastwood.

 

[SouthLondonShrimper]

Firstly, lets not forget that we may never of experienced the greatest few years in the clubs history under Tilly had Ron stuck with Steve Wignall. Now there was a man given half a chance who would of brought the club to its knees and result in us being called AFC Southend. That is a cast iron certainty.

ST was a victim of "over success", we had too many consecutive highs without having the breathing space, time and patience to build a sustainable club. For example when we got up to L1 we should of bed in and felt our way through the league over a year or 2 rather than back to back promtions. Ron would of looked at it and thought "we've had 2 consecutive promotions on a budget, lets wing it on a budget in the championship". Ron was never going to throw Peterborough style money at the project. It was a case of L1 budget and setup in a massive ocean of ex premiership and high budget clubs.

We punched above our weight and ST built a great side but it reaches a point where you cant go any further than the quality you have at your disposal, unfortunately for all the glory hunters and fical SUFC fans that happens to be League 1.

ST is the best manager we have had, the side he had featured some of the most iconic in our history.

Lastly in regards to Hooper and Kightly, simply put- How long does the club have to wait and stand by a player in the vain hope that they will develop into the player they hope to be? Im not being funny but I would bang in 20 goals a season if i had the quality that Hooper has around him creating goals.

 

[Jam_Man]

So its not bollox then. It was Eastwood's goals that got us the promotions and without them we wouldnt have been promoted.

What a bizarre argument to use against a manager.

Without Thierry Henry Wenger wouldnt have won the league, without Ronaldo Mourinho wouldnt have won the league last year.

Managers take credit for the players that they put on the pitch. Eastwood was a massive part of our promotion push but so what !?

 

[Silencer]

Steve Tilson made too many mistakes starting from when we were promoted to the Championship.

Poor signings coupled with releasing too many of his loyal promotion players was just the start.

Wayne Gray & Mark Bentley amongst others would have easily done 'a job' in some games and they would have provided that winning mentality from the previous two years. These same players who bought into the Tilly formula would have backed this again in the Championship where new signings and bigger ego's clearly did not.

 

[Jam_Man]

Steve Tilson made too many mistakes starting from when we were promoted to the Championship.

Poor signings coupled with releasing too many of his loyal promotion players was just the start.

Wayne Gray & Mark Bentley amongst others would have easily done 'a job' in some games and they would have provided that winning mentality from the previous two years. These same players who bought into the Tilly formula would have backed this again in the Championship where new signings and bigger ego's clearly did not.

If we had stuck with the team that got promoted we still would have come down.

Not sure what kind of job Wayne Gray would have done. He only scored 3 goals in his last 30 appearances in a lower league (although what a memorable goal one was!)

It was clear that when we went up we still had a lot of league two players and Che Wilson, Wayne Gray and Bentley were clear contenders to be replaced at that time, although Bentley could have been the more useful but even he had been overtaken by Guttridge in the middle and was playing out on the right more.

I dont have any issue with who was released, but I agree our transfer dealings were poor.

 

[Tampa Blue]

Lastly in regards to Hooper and Kightly, simply put- How long does the club have to wait and stand by a player in the vain hope that they will develop into the player they hope to be?

Kightly was offered back to us as first option by Stimson and Tilson said no - went to Wolves and the rest is history

 

[Silencer]

If we had stuck with the team that got promoted we still would have come down.

Not sure what kind of job Wayne Gray would have done. He only scored 3 goals in his last 30 appearances in a lower league (although what a memorable goal one was!)

It was clear that when we went up we still had a lot of league two players and Che Wilson, Wayne Gray and Bentley were clear contenders to be replaced at that time, although Bentley could have been the more useful but even he had been overtaken by Guttridge in the middle and was playing out on the right more.

I dont have any issue with who was released, but I agree our transfer dealings were poor.

Appreciate your comments mate and tend to agree to a certain extent - I am not for a minute saying that the likes of Bentley, Gray, Jupp would have warranted two many starts - but I can imagine them in and around the bench and training ground could have proven a huge help with the influx of bigger names and ego's.

Managers often like and need their own players and men around them, just feel Tilly missed a trick there with players on small wages.

 

[mrsblue]

Steve Tilson made too many mistakes starting from when we were promoted to the Championship.

Poor signings coupled with releasing too many of his loyal promotion players was just the start.

Wayne Gray & Mark Bentley amongst others would have easily done 'a job' in some games and they would have provided that winning mentality from the previous two years. These same players who bought into the Tilly formula would have backed this again in the Championship where new signings and bigger ego's clearly did not.

Gray and Bentley imo were no where near championship class,So they would have been taking slices of the budget for little return.

Tilsons main problem was getting promotion to the second level far too quickly,This club was never geared for that particular adventure.