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I would say the colossal amount of ground left when Sainsburys have got their supermarket on the car park and Prospects area of the ground....the actual stadium area is free for housing etc.

I think it was TB who last told me the whole site is worth between £30-35 mill.

Ah I see....

I had always assumed that the residential was planned by Sainsbury and would be used to offset the initial cost of the Store build so that they were making profits earlier in the life of the store. I didn't realise that RM had only sold a bit of the RH site to Sainsbury and was planning the demolition and residential development without involving Sainsbury.

I know Tesco have pulled out of several sites previously because they could not agree on the residential aspect
 
I beleive the $6million was agreed 6 years ago, when we expected work to start. The world is a different place now . Like it or not I would expect any business to look at renegotiating something that was agreed this long ago . That is standard business practice. I see it as a good thing from the perspective of the football club . My post was very clear on this . It has nothing to do with rose tinted glasses, or 'wake up and smell the coffee' - both of which are condescending arrogant statements that indicate that you are more intelligent that those with a view point against yours , or that you know more and so can make a better more informed opinion – if the later is the case please tell.

Do I like Ron, or his business practices, or the way he blames everyone else --- No not at all, he has done a lot which does not sit well with me, but I am able to look at statements objectively without having an agenda.

It is proactive because he is putting pressure on the council, as has been suggested by many on here. It is good for SUFC for the reasons I gave in my last post ---

ps. following your logic I expect you to berate the council for not delivering on projects that they promised 6 years ago (that were not dependant on our cash) because their forecasts did not foresee the recession we are in. Its exactly the same thing, the council has to change its plans , as has Ron, as have many (most ?) businesses.

To begin with lets be absoultely clear I am neither 'arrogant' or consider myself 'more intelligent' than anyone else on this message board.

Secondly I am always interested in reading other people's opinions - that is primarily what a forum is all about isn't it? Nevertheless that does not mean that from time to time (and its not often!) I can't express mine back - even if this includes some increduality that there are people out there (outside of HMRC, Evening Echo, Southend Borough Council, The FA, Football League, Prospects College, former and current players, directors, manager's, Chief Exec's, commercial manager's, non-playing staff, long suffering supporters etc) who have kept the faith.

However moving swiftly on...... the example I would use to illustrate the latest setback is rather that I buy a house three years ago at the top of the market. Three years on and I realise my house is now worth 20% less than I paid for it and I go to the vendors and ask them to refund the difference. It doesn't work like that in conveyancing or in the commercial world of business. If the financial markets had gone the other way how do you think RM (and many supporters) would have responded to a request from the Council to increase SUFC's contribution towards the development of the town centre?

The whole project was reliant on the retail and leisure industries - neither of which have escaped the recession or indeed the march of time. Never mind £6m ... £60m probably wouldn't make any difference to the ultimate future of the High Street and with shops closing down all over the town there is absolutely no short or medium term need for any more (empty) retail outlets at FF. We already know there is no immediate appetite for a new Hotel and Sainsburys are not exactly busting a gut to get RH developed. They are also probably wondering what on earth they would do with the 1,000's square feet that have at the moment in London Road. Propsective tenants will hardly be beating down the doors.

In summary the economic environment is not conducive to execute the original tri-party plans and we don't have an owner who has the money or apparently the business acumen to overcome the significant challenges that remain.

Finally I have no more 'an agenda' than the next man or woman- there is nothing I'd like more than to see Blues relocate to FF. But on balance it seems increasingly unlikely to happen and I just believe we (the supporters, message boards, Trust etc) should probably be using our time and energy to develop a Plan B rather than continue to place our faith and make excuses for the current hierachy.
 
100% spot on Cricko. Very astute assessment. It has always been about the development value ( including unpaid rent) of the RH site. FF is a side show.
 
To begin with lets be absoultely clear I am neither 'arrogant' or consider myself 'more intelligent' than anyone else on this message board.

Secondly I am always interested in reading other people's opinions - that is primarily what a forum is all about isn't it? Nevertheless that does not mean that from time to time (and its not often!) I can't express mine back - even if this includes some increduality that there are people out there (outside of HMRC, Evening Echo, Southend Borough Council, The FA, Football League, Prospects College, former and current players, directors, manager's, Chief Exec's, commercial manager's, non-playing staff, long suffering supporters etc) who have kept the faith.

However moving swiftly on...... the example I would use to illustrate the latest setback is rather that I buy a house three years ago at the top of the market. Three years on and I realise my house is now worth 20% less than I paid for it and I go to the vendors and ask them to refund the difference. It doesn't work like that in conveyancing or in the commercial world of business. If the financial markets had gone the other way how do you think RM (and many supporters) would have responded to a request from the Council to increase SUFC's contribution towards the development of the town centre?

The whole project was reliant on the retail and leisure industries - neither of which have escaped the recession or indeed the march of time. Never mind £6m ... £60m probably wouldn't make any difference to the ultimate future of the High Street and with shops closing down all over the town there is absolutely no short or medium term need for any more (empty) retail outlets at FF. We already know there is no immediate appetite for a new Hotel and Sainsburys are not exactly busting a gut to get RH developed. They are also probably wondering what on earth they would do with the 1,000's square feet that have at the moment in London Road. Propsective tenants will hardly be beating down the doors.

In summary the economic environment is not conducive to execute the original tri-party plans and we don't have an owner who has the money or apparently the business acumen to overcome the significant challenges that remain.

Finally I have no more 'an agenda' than the next man or woman- there is nothing I'd like more than to see Blues relocate to FF. But on balance it seems increasingly unlikely to happen and I just believe we (the supporters, message boards, Trust etc) should probably be using our time and energy to develop a Plan B rather than continue to place our faith and make excuses for the current hierachy.

Excellent post.
 
100% spot on Cricko. Very astute assessment. It has always been about the development value ( including unpaid rent) of the RH site. FF is a side show.

I disagree. I think both you and Cricko are vastly underestimating the potential value of the retail park
 
However moving swiftly on...... the example I would use to illustrate the latest setback is rather that I buy a house three years ago at the top of the market. Three years on and I realise my house is now worth 20% less than I paid for it and I go to the vendors and ask them to refund the difference. It doesn't work like that in conveyancing or in the commercial world of business. If the financial markets had gone the other way how do you think RM (and many supporters) would have responded to a request from the Council to increase SUFC's contribution towards the development of the town centre?

Your example would be better if it was an option to buy rather than a contract to buy as planning consent is a permission rather than a contract.

Think of it as share options. You have an option to buy 100,000 shares of X at £Y at any time in the next three years. However after two years the share price of X has gone down rather than up. You are not obliged to buy the shares at that price, but the seller is obliged to sell at that price if you exercise your option. Both the seller and you know that you aren't going to buy at that price. However, they have some shares they'd like to shift and you have some money you'd like to invest. You go and renegotiate.

FWIW, I think we are far more likely to move to Fossetts than not and my "faith" in this increased, as originally I was sceptical that this would happen. It's now probable.
 
united we stand Phase 1B (edged blue) – 8,000 Seat west stand and hotel
Phase 2 (edged red) – Retail and Leisure

So the bottom line is if he does not build a main stand he can't build a retail park..........

I hear the excuses coming already.....
 
I disagree. I think both you and Cricko are vastly underestimating the potential value of the retail park

What value? as some have already said...what is a retail park worth these days, the future of shopping is already mostly online..... The high street has so many empty shops it's a joke, why do you think this is some saviour to the cause?
 
Again Id ask that surely the flats on Fossetts are still a money maker ?

Well if they had a chance of selling them maybe....the housing market is on its knees.hence why so few developments....not only because people are scared of commitment even if they could get a mortgage but new buyers (which drive the market) are as rare as rocking horse **** these days...unless of course you wish to believe the bollocks The Halifax came out with about Southend being 15% up in values which I can assure you is a crock of shyte.

I even doubt RM's think tank of making the rest of RH housing at this stage but he needs out of RH first.
 
united we stand Phase 1B (edged blue) – 8,000 Seat west stand and hotel
Phase 2 (edged red) – Retail and Leisure

So the bottom line is if he does not build a main stand he can't build a retail park..........

I hear the excuses coming already.....

I read it that he can start building the retail park when the 4th stand is started. Sticking a shovel in the ground could mean starting it I guess....
 
Well if they had a chance of selling them maybe....the housing market is on its knees.hence why so few developments....not only because people are scared of commitment even if they could get a mortgage but new buyers (which drive the market) are as rare as rocking horse **** these days...unless of course you wish to believe the bollocks The Halifax came out with about Southend being 15% up in values which I can assure you is a crock of shyte.

Sorry Cricko but I am sure many people will want a flat at FF, especially with a view of the cemetery and a derelict shopping park next to a 3 sided football ground.
 
I'm familar with how share options work but not sure of the relevance there. I've not had sight of the agreement between the club and the Council but would assume that if Ron has recently asked for the Council to accept a figure lower than previously offered then within the original agreement it was a fixed amount for the period of the planning permission given and be definition, non negotiable.

In terms of your final point I hope you are right - but there is no harm in us preparing ourselves for the worst.
 
Well if they had a chance of selling them maybe....the housing market is on its knees.hence why so few developments....not only because people are scared of commitment even if they could get a mortgage but new buyers (which drive the market) are as rare as rocking horse **** these days...unless of course you wish to believe the bollocks The Halifax came out with about Southend being 15% up in values which I can assure you is a crock of shyte.

If the FF properties will not sell due to the current market what is different about the ones going on RH which make them the money spinner for RM
 
Sorry Cricko but I am sure many people will want a flat at FF, especially with a view of the cemetery and a derelict shopping park next to a 3 sided football ground.

Perhaps they will have "Sea Glimpses" from the 38th floor ;)
 
Well if they had a chance of selling them maybe....the housing market is on its knees.hence why so few developments....not only because people are scared of commitment even if they could get a mortgage but new buyers (which drive the market) are as rare as rocking horse **** these days...unless of course you wish to believe the bollocks The Halifax came out with about Southend being 15% up in values which I can assure you is a crock of shyte.

Well if the flats cant sell then theres not a lot of hope for Roots Hall either, theres 270 new homes there.

The property market is certainly a mess but new properties do still seem to sell (theres a new development in Pitsea that all sold this year), and who knows how the economy will be in 12 months.

Id be more optimistic about the residential units than the retail. Comet probably wont want to take up a unit anymore...
 
If the FF properties will not sell due to the current market what is different about the ones going on RH which make them the money spinner for RM

I edited my post to include that Gary..I agree both are a non starter at this time...the point I was trying to make was , the only hope RM has of any chance of survival is getting us out of RH,the next step he will worry about then. I don't know for sure that he hasn't been offered/given 20 mill for the part Sainsburys want.
 
I disagree. I think both you and Cricko are vastly underestimating the potential value of the retail park

The key word there being potential. I don't doubt that the retail park could make a lot of money, but realistically in the current climate most of the units will remain empty and the flats will be a more reliable source of income.
 

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