Stadium plans passed subject to earlier payment phasing...

[shrimperton]

Do you reckon we should be after an architectural design award? :winking:

Id just be happy with an award that says this club is still around in 5 years!:sad:

 

[bluebrian]

All he has done is got us nearly 10 million in debt.

He hasnt got us anywhere yet.

I dont have any hatred towards Ron Martin, I used to be very much in his camp, but being able to look at it objectively means looking at the facts. The facts are he hasnt done anything yet. To blindly accept he will deliver the full stadium, when in 6 years he hasnt achieved anything is not being objective.

He has kept us in the football league - that's an achievement that many on here have said he wouldn't. If you believe some people - we would have gone under years ago. The simple facts are that we remain a competitive football club with planning permission to build a new stadium. Based on my experience of property developers - my objective view is that I have not been surprised by anything that has happened during his tenure. The one thing that has surprised me is that he has kept us afloat. I am not suggesting for one moment I wouldn't have liked it to have been done differently but beggars can't be choosers. So in summary I don't blindly accept he will deliver the full stadium - I have based my opinion on the information available to me and that is I believe that we will have a new stadium on FF and ultimately it will have 4 sides. I don't see that opinion being any more far fetched than other peoples opinion that we will go under.

 

[Jam_Man]

He has kept us in the football league - that's an achievement that many on here have said he wouldn't. If you believe some people - we would have gone under years ago. The simple facts are that we remain a competitive football club with planning permission to build a new stadium. Based on my experience of property developers - my objective view is that I have not been surprised by anything that has happened during his tenure. The one thing that has surprised me is that he has kept us afloat. I am not suggesting for one moment I wouldn't have liked it to have been done differently but beggars can't be choosers. So in summary I don't blindly accept he will deliver the full stadium - I have based my opinion on the information available to me and that is I believe that we will have a new stadium on FF and ultimately it will have 4 sides. I don't see that opinion being any more far fetched than other peoples opinion that we will go under.

He has kept us afloat by getting us millions in debt so that he can get his payout from the new stadium.

Yes we are afloat but we regularly dont pay staff or players and under constant embargos. Thats nothing to celebrate.

If and when he finishes the stadium and if we actually benefit from the financial side the whole project provides then Ill give him due credit.

 

[bluebrian]

He has kept us afloat by getting us millions in debt so that he can get his payout from the new stadium.

Yes we are afloat but we regularly dont pay staff or players and under constant embargos. Thats nothing to celebrate.

If and when he finishes the stadium and if we actually benefit from the financial side the whole project provides then Ill give him due credit.

Who's celebrating? I'm certainly not. I simply don't think it's in anyone's interest to continually look for negatives all the time. There are a lot of positives that have happened during his tenure. I will also give him credit if our goals are achieved. As I said previously I'm surprised he hasn't taken us under as that is what I expected when he and Delancey came on board.

 

[Firestorm]

He has kept us afloat by getting us millions in debt so that he can get his payout from the new stadium.

Yes we are afloat but we regularly dont pay staff or players and under constant embargos. Thats nothing to celebrate.

If and when he finishes the stadium and if we actually benefit from the financial side the whole project provides then Ill give him due credit.

That goal of the new stadium "payout" is what has kept him borrowing to keep the club going. Without his commitment to that goal we may well have folded at the time Lansbury / Delancey were ready to throw in the towel.

 

[Jam_Man]

That goal of the new stadium "payout" is what has kept him borrowing to keep the club going. Without his commitment to that goal we may well have folded at the time Lansbury / Delancey were ready to throw in the towel.

Or we may have got other owners.....

 

[A Century United]

Ok, but my point remains. They built their main stand first.

:raspberry:

Indeed, but on a serious note - with only two sides (and thus all their fans forced to sit in close proximity) they created a very impressive atmosphere.




Freddy scoring the winner on the stroke of full time shut them up though!

:smile:

 

[North Banker]

Indeed, but on a serious note - with only two sides (and thus all their fans forced to sit in close proximity) they created a very impressive atmosphere.




Freddy scoring the winner on the stroke of full time shut them up though!

:smile:

Our 3-sided stadium will hold 14,000 people. Based on our current attendances it could well be nearly 2/3 empty each game, before the main stand is even built! (minus a few thousand day trippers at the first couple of games)

 

[Neil 15GB]

It is so simple. RM is after the capital receipt from the total development. Once secured he will walk away with his development profit including the £10m of back rent and then place the club into administration. End of.

 

[A Century United]

Our 3-sided stadium will hold 14,000 people. Based on our current attendances it could well be nearly 2/3 empty each game, before the main stand is even built! (minus a few thousand day trippers at the first couple of games)

The argument I am addressing here is about the atmosphere, not about attendances. It has been stated during the many debates about FF that a three sided stadium cannot, de facto have a decent atmosphere because all the sound will escape. I therefore present Blackpool and two sides to demonstrate that removing one or even two sides will not necessarily ruin the atmosphere.

Your point about attendances is absurd and straight from the "woe is me all is doomed" school of thinking that pervades this forum of late. We have no idea which division we will be in, who our manager will be, how our team is performing or what effect on attendances a shinny (sic) new Stadium will have. And it is absurd because what choice do we have? We cannot stay where we are. It would be lovely if there was a better plan on offer than Ronald's but there isn't, and until there is, hand wringing, moaning and predictions of doom are futile and a waste of time.

 

[A Century United]

It is so simple. RM is after the capital receipt from the total development. Once secured he will walk away with his development profit including the £10m of back rent and then place the club into administration. End of.

It would be lovely if there was a better plan on offer than Ronald's but there isn't, and until there is, hand wringing, moaning and predictions of doom are futile and a waste of time.

As I said...

However I will point out that this is about as un-simple as any development can be, I have no idea where you get your figures from but I am pretty sure that the Back Rent has already been discounted, the whole point of the retail park is that it will benefit from the regular influx of Football Fans so putting us into Administration would be pretty stupid, and any statement that concludes with either "Fact" or "End Of" is automatically null and void.

 

[Neil 15GB]

So we can't pay the rent on RH but we will be able to pay the rent on the new stadium ? Who will own the stadium, who will we be paying rent to and who will own and retain the income from the retail element ? Answer is RM,RM,RM. and I say 'fact' because I am in a position to know.

 

[North Banker]

The argument I am addressing here is about the atmosphere, not about attendances. It has been stated during the many debates about FF that a three sided stadium cannot, de facto have a decent atmosphere because all the sound will escape. I therefore present Blackpool and two sides to demonstrate that removing one or even two sides will not necessarily ruin the atmosphere.

Your point about attendances is absurd and straight from the "woe is me all is doomed" school of thinking that pervades this forum of late. We have no idea which division we will be in, who our manager will be, how our team is performing or what effect on attendances a shinny (sic) new Stadium will have. And it is absurd because what choice do we have? We cannot stay where we are. It would be lovely if there was a better plan on offer than Ronald's but there isn't, and until there is, hand wringing, moaning and predictions of doom are futile and a waste of time.

I was merely pointing out that we probably won't be "forced to sit in close proximity" like Blackpool for most of the games, which will obviously detract from the atmosphere. And even if our shiny new stadium is packed to the rafters with fair weather fans (which for some games, no doubt it will be) the atmosphere will probably still be poor as proven by Wembley.

I just think that FF will be too big for usand the atmosphere will suffer because of it. Blackpool got big crowds when they had two sides, and this is the reason they still had a good atmosphere. But what do I know?

 

[fbm]

Exactly!....As far as I am concerned if the bloke does not have the funds himself or is clearly able to demonstrate the ability to draw on such funds, to complete the project FULLY. Then he should not be getting involved with such a development.

But he is involved and the fact that he doesn't have the pockets of Abramovich isn't his fault. He's a businessman and was in the right place at the right time to take advantage of a deal that would have been incredibly beneficial to both him and us had the 2007 banking crisis not happened. I doubt anyone would have just stepped aside... the fact that we have stayed out of administration is probably testament to the fact that he has - somehow - been able to keep everything bubbling.

This all makes you wonder what happens when RM does no longer have the backing of Sainsbury's to fall back on once we are out of RH and they have filled their commitments regarding paying for the 3 sided thing and he no longer has such a carrot to dangle.

But John, you believe that he will have reaped the big reward by that time so he won't need the backing of Sainsburys?

Ahh yes that old chesnut. Can anyone point me in the direction of the evidence and clear financial statements where it details that Southend United FC will receive a percentage of any of the retail rental payments?

The retail arm is phase 2 anyway and that could take ages to build, even after we move into the 3 sided stadium. With the council payments linked to this development as well. What is the rush?

In fact what is the point of the retail arm?....does the town need it?...is it sustainable at present?

I think it's been said that the club won't benefit from the rents on this. They will go to the company or companies involved in building the 3 sides and retail park.

How though, his business record is at an all time low, I would love to believe someone is going to come along and finance the 4th side etc , I just can't see it, it a massive development with any returns atm pie in the sky.

It is all if's and buts, if he were a multi millionaire with some credibility left maybe.I will be more than happy if he pulls some rabbit out of the hat but atm can't see it.

This development is an opportunity for his business reputation to be enhanced massively. He will want this on his CV as a success which it won't be if he just walks away as soon as the 3 sides are built and the club folds.

Yep Roots Hall is definitely the big cash cow. Still trying to get my head round a big hotel chain coming aboard and spending tens of millions on building not only the their own hotel but also a big shiny new stand etc and then accepting that despite paying for it to be built they would have to then pay rent to RM, SUFC or A.N Other management co (delete as applicable) for the privilege of doing so.

Who knows how it's going to work? This is my point really... we don't have enough information to comment or judge but everyone seems to be making their minds up, as they have done on other matters and have been proved wrong.

Either way - and I won't go on any more about it as I'm sure it's boring for some - we are stuffed without FF and the only chance we have of survival is for FF to come off and the income streams (whatever they are) keep the club alive.

I'm happy to wait and see how it pans out.

 

[mrsblue]

So we can't pay the rent on RH but we will be able to pay the rent on the new stadium ? Who will own the stadium, who will we be paying rent to and who will own and retain the income from the retail element ? Answer is RM,RM,RM. and I say 'fact' because I am in a position to know.

The clever money backs you right up,However you will never convince others.

 

[chapperzUK]

It is so simple. RM is after the capital receipt from the total development. Once secured he will walk away with his development profit including the £10m of back rent and then place the club into administration. End of.

How will any of that happen? If Ron leaves then he will no longer own the club, so won't be able to put the club in administration.

 

[Neil 15GB]

Oh for Gods sake ! The club will be forced into administration by its creditors . By then RM will have secured his ' capital gain' so it will not matter. The club will not gone into administration before the development has been secured but after that there will be nobody to bail us out. Sainsbury have bank rolled us so far . Why would they do that after they have their store ????

 

[Jam_Man]

So we can't pay the rent on RH but we will be able to pay the rent on the new stadium ? Who will own the stadium, who will we be paying rent to and who will own and retain the income from the retail element ? Answer is RM,RM,RM. and I say 'fact' because I am in a position to know.

Oh for Gods sake ! The club will be forced into administration by its creditors . By then RM will have secured his ' capital gain' so it will not matter. The club will not gone into administration before the development has been secured but after that there will be nobody to bail us out. Sainsbury have bank rolled us so far . Why would they do that after they have their store ????

So Ron owns a massive stadium and then intentionally ruins the club who are going to play in it then losing all the revenue it would make ?

Plus our main debt is to Rons other companies, so if we go into administration he then gets 10p in the pound at best for the money he is owed (which he no doubt owes other people)?

Im not sure that makes any sense.

 

[chapperzUK]

Oh for Gods sake ! The club will be forced into administration by its creditors . By then RM will have secured his ' capital gain' so it will not matter. The club will not gone into administration before the development has been secured but after that there will be nobody to bail us out. Sainsbury have bank rolled us so far . Why would they do that after they have their store ????

What creditors? The creditor (Ron) that has just be paid the monies owed to him.

If Ron goes, then that means that someone will have to buy the club and come to an agreement about clearing the debts owed to Ron's companies. Then we will have someone to bank roll us and no debts.

 

[Neil 15GB]

But the club can not pay the rent ! So it is like owning a block of flats with none of the occupants paying rent. What is the value ? The only reason that the club survived at RH is that RM accrued the rent which will be off set against the capital income of the development. At FF there is no capital so why hang around to oversee a fundamentally flawed business model.
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