Some perspective

[Tampa Blue]

Not unhappy with COSU per se.

Extremely unhappy with our style of play and quality of players.

Perhaps I should get used to the turgid play being served up or perhaps I should realise that I don't have to put up with it and can find better and more enjoyable use of my time.

And btw I have been a season ticket holder for decades so making that decision really hurts and isn't an easy one.

Also I was not one to boo and slag off the players or management as that is counter productive.

 

[Seaside Shrimper]

I'm guilty of expecting the pace of transition to be quicker, and I'd assume many other supporters feel the same way. We all know how close the club was to the brink of extinction, how badly Southend United were stripped of anything of value and saddled with a barrelful of toxic debt by the previous owner.

I think we can also agree that Kev and the tightly knit team he helped to assemble did a phenomenal job last season and were hindered in recruitment for this campaign because of the time it took for the takeover to complete. I also think it's clear that COSU have set initial expectations as financial prudence/stability and have already made huge strides in improving a number of areas, in some cases prior to even owning the football club.

However, the fanbase rightfully has some significant frustrations. Kev is not getting the best out of the assets at his disposal despite being active in the transfer market recently and having better positional depth than he has had at any juncture of his tenure (despite still being a few players short). Yes, our points haul from the league has been in the upper reaches of the form table lately, but we've been completely exposed by teams with any real quality and have been unconvincing in beating many of the others during that period. Let's be honest, the National League is, in the main, an atrocious league filled with some abysmal teams and we're often one of them. Getting beaten by the likes of Sittingbourne and Maidenhead is slightly different to dropping points against the likes of Brighton and Palace or even Col U and Orient, all of whom we've been divisional rivals of in the not-too-distant past. It's results like the last couple that show just how far we've fallen and, as a result, they're the ones that hurt me the most. I get that Kev wants to protect his players and not throw them under the bus, but there are facets of our game that are simply not good enough and need addressing. Defending set-pieces and the delivery of our own set-pieces have been woeful all year and need sorting on the training ground. Setting up for a point or to nick a 1-0 win at a team like Maidenhead (f***ing Maidenhead) is unacceptable. These are issues that having nothing to do with Ron Martin, COSU, embargoes or time-consuming takeovers. This squad is better than the performances being served up and Kev needs to address this pronto.

I do get the frustrations at the performances and especially the results such as the one vs Maidenhead (F***ing Maidenhead) Football is an emotional game and I don't think anyone related to the club in anyway would be happy at that result.

However, it is the over reaction that is starting to wind me up. Booing the players/team, calling for heads to roll and threatening to literally stop supporting the club by giving up their season tickets.

Look at any successful rebuild from any walk of life, business, any sporting team/club, progression in a hobby. Not one in history has a totally straight upward trajectory, there will be bumps in the road.

Now Kev and team performed wonders last season, there is naturally going to be a little drop off even if everything went according to plan.

Nothing has gone to plan this season, for all the reasons that get spoken about on these boards. Delay in takeover meaning signings were missed out on, injuries, player sales, losing OK etc.

But, Kev has not become a bad manager over the summer, we weren't playing boring football when we were winning and performing and I believe he will get it right eventually (read next season) and deserves the time and (I cannot stress this enough) support to get there.

Should be a carnival atmosphere every game at Roots Hall this season, just because there is football happening there at all, regardless of what's going on on the pitch, but somehow, what feels like a decent size of the support has stopped supporting and just wants to dig the knife in.

 

[The_Beard]

I'm guilty of expecting the pace of transition to be quicker, and I'd assume many other supporters feel the same way. We all know how close the club was to the brink of extinction, how badly Southend United were stripped of anything of value and saddled with a barrelful of toxic debt by the previous owner.

I think we can also agree that Kev and the tightly knit team he helped to assemble did a phenomenal job last season and were hindered in recruitment for this campaign because of the time it took for the takeover to complete. I also think it's clear that COSU have set initial expectations as financial prudence/stability and have already made huge strides in improving a number of areas, in some cases prior to even owning the football club.

However, the fanbase rightfully has some significant frustrations. Kev is not getting the best out of the assets at his disposal despite being active in the transfer market recently and having better positional depth than he has had at any juncture of his tenure (despite still being a few players short). Yes, our points haul from the league has been in the upper reaches of the form table lately, but we've been completely exposed by teams with any real quality and have been unconvincing in beating many of the others during that period. Let's be honest, the National League is, in the main, an atrocious league filled with some abysmal teams and we're often one of them. Getting beaten by the likes of Sittingbourne and Maidenhead is slightly different to dropping points against the likes of Brighton and Palace or even Col U and Orient, all of whom we've been divisional rivals of in the not-too-distant past. It's results like the last couple that show just how far we've fallen and, as a result, they're the ones that hurt me the most. I get that Kev wants to protect his players and not throw them under the bus, but there are facets of our game that are simply not good enough and need addressing. Defending set-pieces and the delivery of our own set-pieces have been woeful all year and need sorting on the training ground. Setting up for a point or to nick a 1-0 win at a team like Maidenhead (f***ing Maidenhead) is unacceptable. These are issues that having nothing to do with Ron Martin, COSU, embargoes or time-consuming takeovers. This squad is better than the performances being served up and Kev needs to address this pronto.

I absolutely agree with this. I made a point to include criticism of individual performances is well within our rights as supporters and it's something I'm entirely guilty of myself. Their are players and tactics that I disagree with. My perspective was more aimed at the COSU out sentiments that have crept on here.

I even rail against the Maher out calls, personally. And it's not based off goodwill for his previous efforts, it's from him having a fair shake. For me, having been witness to Southend's lowest points (Doncaster at home in 2019 for me), the bar is low for Southend managers. I can tolerate boring over 2019. That patience obviously won't last forever, but it will definitely outlive the first season of a new era.

I laugh at Arsenal fans who complain that they haven't won the league in however many years. They have no idea. But that sentiment exists even at this level, some fans either weren't there or have forgotten how bad it was, and it wasn't this.

 

[pottster]

Can we sign Bob? Does he play up front? Or can he manage a football team with attacking style of play? Asking for a football club i know.

 

[Pak66]

4 Strikers with 60 appearances between them, two have yet to score and the other two have four goals between them in 44 matches. That is an average of our strikers scoring once every eleven games.
That makes Southend United a mediocre National League side. What other manager from junior kids football to the Premier League would put up with that? It can only be one of two things Either the coaching is not good enough or the strikers are not good enough. Then ask who signed these strikers and what did they see in them?

 

[Ramsdenblue]

A lot of nonsence being spouted on here recently, and yes I know that's par for the course, but seems like the crazy went up a few notches so I wanted to put up a counter point to the madness.

The first concept to get your head around is the idea of a rebuild. Rebuilds are not instant, even for a team that hasn't had the issues we have, but has perhaps aged out of being contender for whatever league they're in, in whatever sport they're in. To undo they damage that was done over DECADES will take DECADES. We have not yet progressed from "survive" to "thrive".

The best analogy I can think of for the way some people think on here is: imagine Bob is in a hospital and goes in to cardiac arrest, but is resusitated by the will and skill of the Cardiac Operations Special Unit. Bob is now in recovery, he may have long term physical damage that will require ongoing medical care and physiotherapy. The day after Bob's life saving operation, 6000 idiots burst in to his room demanding he run, and win, the London Marathon.

We are Bob.

The club are twelfth in the league, they're not in immediate danger. Yes, performances have been dire on occasion, but if you're surprised by that as a Southend fan, congrats on attending your first game. My opinion is if we make it out of the National League by the end of the decade, that's probably on track with where a club that came so close to the brink should be.

Those of you that are tearing your hair out because the club aren't challenging for the top spot: adjust your expectations, I promise you, you'll have more fun. Get mad at individual performances, for sure, but don't call for wholesale changes to a club that desperately need to stabilize, you'll never be happy.

Yes, all very good and true.

But what if the old surgeon helping poor old BOB,
was helping BOB P, the way that the surgeon new best,
What if the surgeon was a very cautious old boy, very defensive in his views about rehabilitation,
Doing things the old way,
steady but surely, eventually helping BOB back to full health.
But,

What if there was a slightly younger surgeon, who had new ways of helping BOB back to health, NOT using the old ways, but a possible change of ideals,
A new way / a different approach of achieving the same outcome but helping BOB get well a lot a lot sooner.

Yes, we are rebuilding the club and it will take time to achieve,
but maybe a slight change in personnel structure, or if not, a change in the way we play, change in formation etc...
Will help us rebuild our club, but also help achieve its on pitch aspirations sooner.

 

[Pak66]

WTF has Southend United got to do with some bloke who is in hospital ????????

 

[wiggy]

How COSU and a fair number of blind supporters cannot see that Maher has had numerous chances to get up the League with a bit of tactical nous and ambition is beyond me....he even tried to lose the 3 points at a poor Braintree. If I didn't know any better then I'd think he's backed us for bottom half?

The fact that he still crowbars either Husin or Miley or both in says it all.....along with not giving others a fair chance as well has got to mean the end!.....as for the Hopper signing, errr why?
Will go tomorrow as have a ticket from before but that is my lot until he goes, entertainment under him it certainly isn't and he don't get many points either by playing this way..... Moyes plays crap football but at least it gets results!!....Last two Saturdays have opened the eyes of even the most blinkered, no more!

 

[The_Beard]

4 Strikers with 60 appearances between them, two have yet to score and the other two have four goals between them in 44 matches. That is an average of our strikers scoring once every eleven games.
That makes Southend United a mediocre National League side. What other manager from junior kids football to the Premier League would put up with that? It can only be one of two things Either the coaching is not good enough or the strikers are not good enough. Then ask who signed these strikers and what did they see in them?

I've got bad news for you on the status of Southend United in the National League: they are mediocre.

I do think signing strikers in this league is pot luck though. Harry Cardwell was good last season wasn't he? Scored 3 in 26 this season. And one of them was for us.

I think the signing lottery is also not helped by the fact that, contrary to current ownership, Southend have a well earned reputation as bad payers. I think historically we've paid over the odds for players of lesser value simply because we have to do SOMETHING to convince people to sign because the promise of gainful employment isn't quite there if you go 3 months without getting paid. You can buy loyalty, but you can also earn distrust.

 

[TrevorFitzpatrickHattrick]

I do get the frustrations at the performances and especially the results such as the one vs Maidenhead (F***ing Maidenhead) Football is an emotional game and I don't think anyone related to the club in anyway would be happy at that result.

However, it is the over reaction that is starting to wind me up. Booing the players/team, calling for heads to roll and threatening to literally stop supporting the club by giving up their season tickets.

Look at any successful rebuild from any walk of life, business, any sporting team/club, progression in a hobby. Not one in history has a totally straight upward trajectory, there will be bumps in the road.

Now Kev and team performed wonders last season, there is naturally going to be a little drop off even if everything went according to plan.

Nothing has gone to plan this season, for all the reasons that get spoken about on these boards. Delay in takeover meaning signings were missed out on, injuries, player sales, losing OK etc.

But, Kev has not become a bad manager over the summer, we weren't playing boring football when we were winning and performing and I believe he will get it right eventually (read next season) and deserves the time and (I cannot stress this enough) support to get there.

Should be a carnival atmosphere every game at Roots Hall this season, just because there is football happening there at all, regardless of what's going on on the pitch, but somehow, what feels like a decent size of the support has stopped supporting and just wants to dig the knife in.

All valid points, many of which I either alluded to or agree with. I said in a separate thread that I think Kev will get the rest of this season, pre-season and then 10-15 games next season to show some upward mobility, and part of me is ok with that. My main issue is that he has a competitive squad that can more than go toe-to-toe with some of the garbage in this division, but Kev often sets up like we're playing a Prem team in a cup-tie. There's still, miraculously, something we can play for this season in the shape of a playoff place if everything aligns. And if we're going to fall short, why not do it by going on the front-foot and not showing these glorified pub-teams too much respect?

 

[The_Beard]

How COSU and a fair number of blind supporters cannot see that Maher has had numerous chances to get up the League with a bit of tactical nous and ambition is beyond me....he even tried to lose the 3 points at a poor Braintree. If I didn't know any better then I'd think he's backed us for bottom half?

The fact that he still crowbars either Husin or Miley or both in says it all.....along with not giving others a fair chance as well has got to mean the end!.....as for the Hopper signing, errr why?
Will go tomorrow as have a ticket from before but that is my lot until he goes, entertainment under him it certainly isn't and he don't get many points either by playing this way..... Moyes plays crap football but at least it gets results!!....Last two Saturdays have opened the eyes of even the most blinkered, no more!

I think comparing Southend to Everton is exactly why I started a thread called "Some perspective" cheers for the laugh mate.

 

[shrimperjon]

A lot of nonsence being spouted on here recently, and yes I know that's par for the course, but seems like the crazy went up a few notches so I wanted to put up a counter point to the madness.

The first concept to get your head around is the idea of a rebuild. Rebuilds are not instant, even for a team that hasn't had the issues we have, but has perhaps aged out of being contender for whatever league they're in, in whatever sport they're in. To undo they damage that was done over DECADES will take DECADES. We have not yet progressed from "survive" to "thrive".

The best analogy I can think of for the way some people think on here is: imagine Bob is in a hospital and goes in to cardiac arrest, but is resusitated by the will and skill of the Cardiac Operations Special Unit. Bob is now in recovery, he may have long term physical damage that will require ongoing medical care and physiotherapy. The day after Bob's life saving operation, 6000 idiots burst in to his room demanding he run, and win, the London Marathon.

We are Bob.

The club are twelfth in the league, they're not in immediate danger. Yes, performances have been dire on occasion, but if you're surprised by that as a Southend fan, congrats on attending your first game. My opinion is if we make it out of the National League by the end of the decade, that's probably on track with where a club that came so close to the brink should be.

Those of you that are tearing your hair out because the club aren't challenging for the top spot: adjust your expectations, I promise you, you'll have more fun. Get mad at individual performances, for sure, but don't call for wholesale changes to a club that desperately need to stabilize, you'll never be happy.

I think this is the issue in some ways. You say we are 12th in the league, correct. On Saturday we started the day 3 pts out of the playoffs. You say performances have been dire and continue to be including the last two games. but i dont think the players are anywhere near as bad as results suggest. Its the lack of vision and tactical nouse that is the problem from the three amigos. Maidenhead have had 3 clean sheets all season and a goal difference of -21. 2 of those clean sheets have been against us and in beating us twice we have handed them a 1/4 of their wins. WE HAD ONE SHOT ON TARGET ALL GAME, ONE SHOT. Saturday was completely unacceptable and an insult to the 1000 of us again that made the effort to travel. There are still plenty of points to play for and despite a poor season we could make the play offs but not certain it will happen with kev and co in charge. If we are still in this league come the end or towards the end of this decade then i think we will remain here for some time to come. Cosu defo dont want this and my gut feeling having spoken to some of them recently is if its noT this season then it has to be next season or at least be in with a shout

 

[onceknownasrab]

A lot of nonsence being spouted on here recently, and yes I know that's par for the course, but seems like the crazy went up a few notches so I wanted to put up a counter point to the madness.

The first concept to get your head around is the idea of a rebuild. Rebuilds are not instant, even for a team that hasn't had the issues we have, but has perhaps aged out of being contender for whatever league they're in, in whatever sport they're in. To undo they damage that was done over DECADES will take DECADES. We have not yet progressed from "survive" to "thrive".

The best analogy I can think of for the way some people think on here is: imagine Bob is in a hospital and goes in to cardiac arrest, but is resusitated by the will and skill of the Cardiac Operations Special Unit. Bob is now in recovery, he may have long term physical damage that will require ongoing medical care and physiotherapy. The day after Bob's life saving operation, 6000 idiots burst in to his room demanding he run, and win, the London Marathon.

We are Bob.

The club are twelfth in the league, they're not in immediate danger. Yes, performances have been dire on occasion, but if you're surprised by that as a Southend fan, congrats on attending your first game. My opinion is if we make it out of the National League by the end of the decade, that's probably on track with where a club that came so close to the brink should be.

Those of you that are tearing your hair out because the club aren't challenging for the top spot: adjust your expectations, I promise you, you'll have more fun. Get mad at individual performances, for sure, but don't call for wholesale changes to a club that desperately need to stabilize, you'll never be happy.

Perhaps it would have been prudent not to refer to the opinions of others as nonsense. They are entitled to their view. I , like so many others dissatisfied, are not calling out COSU and we understand the rebuild of the clubs finances and stadium will take time. The criticism is about the play. Maherball is absolutely crap. It does not suit us or help us. KM has so many new faces in the squad and the play has not improved, it is worse. If KM were the surgeon for Bob, the patient would be dead from the wait for KM to accept the ways of yesterday are not good enough today. An ever growing number of fans are sick to death with the rubbish being played in the name of the club and on behalf of the supporters. That is not COSU, that is not past problems, it is KM not doing what is right. Oh, and you say about those expecting us to challenge for top spot, who are they? People expect better, we don't expect miracles.

 

[Pak66]

I've got bad news for you on the status of Southend United in the National League: they are mediocre.

I do think signing strikers in this league is pot luck though. Harry Cardwell was good last season wasn't he? Scored 3 in 26 this season. And one of them was for us.

I think the signing lottery is also not helped by the fact that, contrary to current ownership, Southend have a well earned reputation as bad payers. I think historically we've paid over the odds for players of lesser value simply because we have to do SOMETHING to convince people to sign because the promise of gainful employment isn't quite there if you go 3 months without getting paid. You can buy loyalty, but you can also earn distrust.

I am a bit confused? I think I already said Southend are a Mediocre National League Side .

 

[IloveShrimp]

The hospital analogy.

10 years ago I was seriously ill from having open heart surgery. After six months I was allowed to go rehab (a small gym within the Cardio Theratic Centre at Basildon Hospital). On the first day I was on the first apparatus (a miniscule step up) I was clinging onto the wall bar and gingerly stepping up and down, frightened of what my body could do. A nurse came and whispered into my right ear. She told me that if I didn't work harder and be ambitious I would never recover, she said that to get better I had to go for it!

I will be forever thankful for the hospital and all the people who worked hard to save me, but that nurse sticks in my mind for without her 'get on with it' positive attitude I doubt that I would as fit as I am tody or be writing this post.

 

[Pak66]

The hospital analogy.

10 years ago I was seriously ill from having open heart surgery. After six months I was allowed to go rehab (a small gym within the Cardio Theratic Centre at Basildon Hospital). On the first day I was on the first apparatus (a miniscule step up) I was clinging onto the wall bar and gingerly stepping up and down, frightened of what my body could do. A nurse came and whispered into my right ear. She told me that if I didn't work harder and be ambitious I would never recover, she said that to get better I had to go for it!

I will be forever thankful for the hospital and all the people who worked hard to save me, but that nurse sticks in my mind for without her 'get on with it' positive attitude I doubt that I would as fit as I am tody or be writing this post.

I am really pleased for you but nevertheless your experience has nothing to do with Southend United and the current predicament

 

[The_Beard]

Perhaps it would have been prudent not to refer to the opinions of others as nonsense. They are entitled to their view. I , like so many others dissatisfied, are not calling out COSU and we understand the rebuild of the clubs finances and stadium will take time. The criticism is about the play. Maherball is absolutely crap. It does not suit us or help us. KM has so many new faces in the squad and the play has not improved, it is worse. If KM were the surgeon for Bob, the patient would be dead from the wait for KM to accept the ways of yesterday are not good enough today. An ever growing number of fans are sick to death with the rubbish being played in the name of the club and on behalf of the supporters. That is not COSU, that is not past problems, it is KM not doing what is right. Oh, and you say about those expecting us to challenge for top spot, who are they? People expect better, we don't expect miracles.

I agree that they are entitled to their opinions, as am I. And my opinion is that people calling for COSU out is nonsense.

I don't think I mentioned Maher in my post did I?

I also said, yes, get mad with individual performances, I'm with you. I do the same. I mentioned perspective. Take a realistic approach to where the club were, where they are and where they can reasonably expect to be in the next 5-10 years.

Does that mean Maher out? Maybe in the future. But in the first season of recovery I'd rather celebrate not being Bury, enjoy the opportunity of seeing the club with my friends and dream about the future, because the club might actually have one now.

 

[Pak66]

I've got bad news for you on the status of Southend United in the National League: they are mediocre.

I do think signing strikers in this league is pot luck though. Harry Cardwell was good last season wasn't he? Scored 3 in 26 this season. And one of them was for us.

I think the signing lottery is also not helped by the fact that, contrary to current ownership, Southend have a well earned reputation as bad payers. I think historically we've paid over the odds for players of lesser value simply because we have to do SOMETHING to convince people to sign because the promise of gainful employment isn't quite there if you go 3 months without getting paid. You can buy loyalty, but you can also earn distrust.

Have another look At Harry's stats and report back . Thank you

 

[Tampa Blue]

Take Over
New Owners
Off Field Debt Being Reduced
Off Field Stadium Improvements
No Embargos
No Winding Up Orders
Amazing Support Home and Away

All great and show what a good job COSU have done.

Perspective ? .............. I don't think you'll find that any of the above, which are marvellous and are to be applauded, are overlooked by any on SZ.

IMHO, the simple and only issue is not even about losing matches but is about the turgid and unimaginative tactics that are being served up on the pitch. I just can't get my admittedly small brain around why the Management Team are not addressing this.

 

[Shrimper0116]

There was always the likelihood that once the takeover was complete and the common enemy was gone that things would fizzle out a bit.

The club is in a transition period from surviving, to building for the future onto succeeding. Not everyone is suitable to be involved at each phase and at some point our heroes that made sure we survived will need to make way for someone that can push us onto the next stage.

There will be some tough designs throughout the club over the next 6 months and knee-jerk actions can only set us back

A famous quote from history: 'Revolutions devour their own children. ' Time will tell whether this plays out to be true in our period of transition.