Some Club Staff Salaries Late/Embargo Chat - now resolved (for now)

[Scamps]

When can we have another fans forum?? I enjoyed listening to Ron and Tom and you Stan. These need to become more of a regular thing.

 

[kentblues]

Not sure I said anything about not asking questions.

Sorry. It seems to me the the examples you give arise from the factual answers to genuine questions.

For example, asking how many other clubs are under embargo is a reasonable question? The answer is probably a good few and there is evidence to back that up? Does the question in itself make the poster a Ron apologist? Or does the answer? And if the answer should we make up a different untrue answer that is more preferable?

Calling people Ron lovers or Ron apologists really doesn't add very much to the debate. Yet your base point, putting the name calling aside, is absolutely correct - you are right. just because loads of other clubs are in a mess does not provide any excuse for our current mess of our own that is self-inflicted from all we understand.

 

[Blue Yonder]

Just to save a few pages of speculation the EFL publish the clubs under an embargo on their web site and the answer right now appears to be 1 (Reading). So the idea there are dozens of league clubs with our predicament seems to be wide of the mark. Unfortunately the NL doesn't publish this data as it would make navigating this forum a whole lot easier and pleasanter.

 

[Fairport]

Hopefully the new head of finance is the club finally deciding to solve the ongoing financial issues.

Hopefully, but if income doesn't cover costs then we will be in the same situation again despite employing him. Again, it's another salary to be paid. If the team can succeed on the pitch then cash should flow through ticket sales. That is if attendances are not affected by the cost of living crisis. So many unknowns so will just have to keep fingers crossed.

 

[StanCollymore]

When can we have another fans forum?? I enjoyed listening to Ron and Tom and you Stan. These need to become more of a regular thing.

I'm available every month.
August through until ( and including ) May.
If one or all don't happen, please be clear that I have and continue to make myself available.

 

[Medway Blue]

Sorry. It seems to me the the examples you give arise from the factual answers to genuine questions.

For example, asking how many other clubs are under embargo is a reasonable question? The answer is probably a good few and there is evidence to back that up? Does the question in itself make the poster a Ron apologist? Or does the answer? And if the answer should we make up a different untrue answer that is more preferable?

Calling people Ron lovers or Ron apologists really doesn't add very much to the debate. Yet your base point, putting the name calling aside, is absolutely correct - you are right. just because loads of other clubs are in a mess does not provide any excuse for our current mess of our own that is self-inflicted from all we understand.

Is it? I'm not sure it is. Just sounds like "whatabout, whatabout" to me. Just because some other clubs have been badly mismanaged, doesn't make it OK that we have and doesn't excuse anybody involved. Ron Martin cannot fully fund the club to the budget level agreed upon and meet all of the club's financial obligations in full and on time. That makes him and unfit and improper owner and if he tried to acquire the football club with the new independent regulator in place, he'd quite rightly fail to meet the tests.

 

[Petejames]

I'm available every month.
August through until ( and including ) May.
If one or all don't happen, please be clear that I have and continue to make myself available.

Legend

 

[Blue Yonder]

Sorry. It seems to me the the examples you give arise from the factual answers to genuine questions.

For example, asking how many other clubs are under embargo is a reasonable question? The answer is probably a good few and there is evidence to back that up? Does the question in itself make the poster a Ron apologist? Or does the answer? And if the answer should we make up a different untrue answer that is more preferable?

Calling people Ron lovers or Ron apologists really doesn't add very much to the debate. Yet your base point, putting the name calling aside, is absolutely correct - you are right. just because loads of other clubs are in a mess does not provide any excuse for our current mess of our own that is self-inflicted from all we understand.

Looking at the EFL website the answer in those divisions appears to be one club (Reading). No data available for NL.

 

[kentblues]

Just to save a few pages of speculation the EFL publish the clubs under an embargo on their web site and the answer right now appears to be 1 (Reading). So the idea there are dozens of league clubs with our predicament seems to be wide of the mark. Unfortunately the NL doesn't publish this data as it would make navigating this forum a whole lot easier and pleasanter.

Very interesting thank you

And the link

Embargoes

The Official home of the English Football League

www.efl.com

So as of end of last season (April) there were 7 clubs that were known about (no doubt a few that weren't). That number is now down. Of course two of the clubs Oldham and Scunthorpre are now NL and are outside that reporting.

Every EFL club under a transfer embargo - and how they're faring

A clutch of clubs across all three divisions of the EFL were placed under transfer embargoes last summer, heavily affecting the kind of transfer deals they were able to sanction

www.mirror.co.uk

So this shows how this changes over time and clubs move in and out of embargo- and you have to wonder if the number conveniently drops during the transfer window as the new season is imminent- else no signings. Suddenly the transfer window brings a particular incentive to find funds for tax man for example.

 

[Chalky]

Is it? I'm not sure it is. Just sounds like "whatabout, whatabout" to me. Just because some other clubs have been badly mismanaged, doesn't make it OK that we have and doesn't excuse anybody involved. Ron Martin cannot fully fund the club to the budget level agreed upon and meet all of the club's financial obligations in full and on time. That makes him and unfit and improper owner and if he tried to acquire the football club with the new independent regulator in place, he'd quite rightly fail to meet the tests.

That's simply not true. Why do you think we are out of the embargo once again? Cause he was able to leverage the resource again. Why was the embargo placed upon us in the first place? Cause funds were not available due to the card processing company withholding the funds. So Ron has gone and put his money in again to solve this embargo on top of the vast sums of money already put in this year from his inter companies.

This isn't a binary "Ron apologist or Ron hater" it's merely illustrating that everything has a cause & effect and outlining what it is.

 

[kentblues]

Is it? I'm not sure it is. Just sounds like "whatabout, whatabout" to me. Just because some other clubs have been badly mismanaged, doesn't make it OK that we have and doesn't excuse anybody involved. Ron Martin cannot fully fund the club to the budget level agreed upon and meet all of the club's financial obligations in full and on time. That makes him and unfit and improper owner and if he tried to acquire the football club with the new independent regulator in place, he'd quite rightly fail to meet the tests.

The problem is you are assuming a motive that might not be there- you are assuming the poster is only asking the question for the reasons you describe.

The question may be genuinely to know the answer for other than the negative motivations you assume. As I agreed with you and others, none of it excuses our situation. I suspect those asking the question will in many cases will agree with that to- so I wouldn't just make that broad brush assumption.

Again to avoid all possible doubt other clubs struggles with administration or embargos in no way excuses are own self-inflicted issues.

 

[Medway Blue]

That's simply not true. Why do you think we are out of the embargo once again? Cause he was able to leverage the resource again. Why was the embargo placed upon us in the first place? Cause funds were not available due to the card processing company withholding the funds. So Ron has gone and put his money in again to solve this embargo on top of the vast sums of money already put in this year from his inter companies.

This isn't a binary "Ron apologist or Ron hater" it's merely illustrating that everything has a cause & effect and outlining what it is.

Pray tell me what it is that you don't understand about the fairly simple qualifier "in full and on time"? We weren't put under an embargo for ****s and ****ing giggles. We were put under one because we broke regulations and have paid something late, and we are now perennial rule breakers and defaulters with a reputation in the gutter with clubs, suppliers, agents, clubs. It's not like nobody in the club knew that the bill we've defaulted on would be due at some point. It'd not a surprise, and it should be fully budgeted for and the money already in place. That is good business practice.

Also, what the club fails to actually mention when shifting blame onto credit card companies is that a big reason why they won't release the monies to us is because of our **** financial reputation and credit rating. Again....whose fault is that?

 

[Chalky]

Pray tell me what it is that you don't understand about the fairly simple qualifier "in full and on time"? We weren't put under an embargo for shifts and ****ing giggles. We were put under one because we broke regulations and have paid something late, and we are now perennial rule breakers and defaulters with a reputation in the gutter with clubs, suppliers, agents, clubs.

Also, what the club fails to actually mention when shifting blame onto credit card companies is that a big reason why they won't release the monies to us is because of our **** financial reputation and credit rating. Again....whose fault is that?

So, we have agreed he can fund the club in full but just not on time....We already knew that. Have already alluded to that in previous posts. One thing Ron is 100% guilty of is being unscrupulous.

Regards the second paragraph, again isn't true. It's due to Covid scaring card companies that at any given point during the season restrictions could come back and stop games being played.

 

[danbowen]

Nottingham Forest agreed to send their first team squad but Roots Hall hasn't been available and won't be until Saturday, therefore most clubs pre season , especially big clubs, are already scheduled due to sponsor related pre season commitments.

Liverpool 23's
Southampton
QPR
Burnley
Stoke City
Celtic
Sheffield Wednesday
Wycombe
Chelsea XI
Orient (Billericay offered their ground )
Portsmouth
West Ham
Crystal Palace
Brentford
Blackburn Rovers
Huddersfield
Norwich
Peterborough
Millwall

all offered to send teams or asked for firm dates or declined due to full slots. We couldn't host due to relay of surface. All clubs were contacted from the first week in January until May, I've just checked.

A fully costed St George's Park testing weekend, a costed Spain pre season training camp, a Shelbourne, Bohemians, Derry City pre season in Ireland, Lars Bohinen researched Norway, Pierre van Hooijdonk outlined a Netherlands trip and Michel Salgado offered his Dubai academy to train at.

Ultimately, as with everything I do currently for Southend United Football Club, it is done early, fully accountable, fully costed, with the aim of delivering the best for the club. Then others decide to sign off on whatever they feel is appropriate.

Stan

Thanks for the update. Good to hear good things are being offered but hopefully next season we can get one or two of these arranged as would be great for the fans.

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

To give an idea of the size to the problem lets think a step worse. How many clubs have gone into administration - a fate yet to include us.

Since 1990? Would you believe about 60 (sixty)

English Football Clubs That Went Into Administration [FULL LIST]

See why football clubs go into administration, what it means for them and see the full list of English teams that went into administration.

sqaf.club

Of course going into administration is a public event- embargos other than for reason of administration aren't.

In 202110 (ten) Championship clubs found themselves under an embargo (half the division).

REVEALED: 10 Championship clubs placed under transfer embargo - Fan Banter

10 Championship clubs have been placed under a transfer embargo at the same time last month, with statements being issued following reports. The Daily Mail claims almost half of the league was subject to a registration ban in what the newspaper describes as a “bombshell discovery”. This has led...

fanbanter.co.uk

The 10-15 EFL/NL clubs being under embargo is not an unreasonable estimate by any means.

The April 2021 administrations appear to have been as a consequence of the Covid pandemic and generally for administrative (e.g. filing of accounts), rather than financial, issues. That’s not to say other EFL/NL clubs wouldn’t’ve been similarly affected at that time (and it contributed to our embargo last autumn).

The EFL changed their regulations in the summer of 2021 to enable them to publish clubs under an embargo, together with the reasoning, on their website. Using the Wayback Archive, I’ve found 8 (in some cases, then) EFL clubs that were under an embargo during 2021/22:
Derby County
Hull City
Reading
Fleetwood Town
Gillingham
Oldham Athletic
Scunthorpe United
Swindon Town

Half of those were relegated, and two are now alongside us in the National League, of course.

 

[Hazey]

I notice Stan has taken SUFC out of his Twitter bio again.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

Not to defend Ron in any way. But it's pretty simple what his Modus Operandi is. He always comes up with the cash in the end by liquidating elsewhere in his inter companies.

The club also specifically asked fans to buy season tickets using cash, as the connected card company don't release funds all at once, they're intermittent with it. What is he supposed to do? Say your boss at work right now said to you that he is holding your pay packet for a little while, how would you pay your mortgage? What can you possibly do?

And before anyone retorts with "Then if he can't back the club dont own one!" He does, he puts in a minimum of £750,000 yearly. You really think this is done on purpose? This isn't some weird movie villian conspiracy.

Everyone will be back to demanding statement signings tomorrow. The football world never stops spinning. Again, I am no way white knighting for Ron. It's just this simple. It's facts.

.
Yeah this. The thing always that amuses me is that people are surprised that we’re skint (well, in terms of cashflow and for pretty obvious reasons, it’s all there). We aren’t Wrexham.

I’m just glad this looks like getting sorted before the season kicks off as I have to say, I didn’t expect that and was feeling a bit miffed.
Ron always finds a bit of cash down the sofa in the end, eh??

Some of this “stop spouting negativity” nonsense should cease though..it’s hardly like we didn’t have previous. Why would people would make **** up just for a few bites on a fans forum .. oh hang on ..

 

[Ricey]

Embargo lifted and we celebrate by signing a player for an undisclosed fee.

 

[Barry.C]

The Ron defenders are all over this embargo like a rash

Dont worry an embargoes fine cos Ron always finds the money in the end. Lets enjoy one every year or every 4 months

Dont worry the staff unpaid will eventually be , just nip down to the food bank in the meantime

 

[Chalky]

The Ron defenders are all over this embargo like a rash

Dont worry an embargoes fine cos Ron always finds the money in the end. Lets enjoy one every year or every 4 months

Dont worry the staff unpaid will eventually be , just nip down to the food bank in the meantime

Not one single person said that. But go off, chief.

Welcome Mr Wesley Fonguck. Wonder how much Ron payed for him....