Seafront/High Street tonight

[* ORM *]

No, it would just turn out a better trained and more dangerous class of thug.

For some of them yes but there are numerous examples of juvenile delinquents that have found the forces to give them self respect, respect for others and in some cases a trade or the impetus to train for one.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Bring National service back

Why hamper a professional, committed military?
How about offering veterans an opening into Police, Fire, Medics etc so they can get "in" and ahead? And so doing make a Military career more aspirational too.
My "film studies" post was to highlight that a selection of relevant human life skills is being passed over.

 

[Swiss Tony]

I get what you're saying, but 2 wrongs don't make a right. Both were wrong.

Copper should've waited until back at the station and he could have fell down the stairs

No, it would just turn out a better trained and more dangerous class of thug.

A very first for me agreeing with you but your spot on.

 

[Uncle_Rons_Teapot]

It's all over social media that they are all coming back on Saturday for another party. No doubt Essex police will do sod all again

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

A lot of people seem to be attributing more to the police 'going soft' or whatever than the actual cause of the decline in policing - austerity. The country isn't going to the dogs because too many people have film studies degrees, it's because people have been convinced (by Thatcher and almost every politician since) to care for themselves above anything else and to let public services be stripped to the bone, not to mentioning letting all our centres of community - particularly for young people - disappear, letting jobs and opportunities dwindle and housing become absurdly unaffordable, and ostracising young people at every opportunity.

There simply aren't the bobbies on the beat to do the things you want them to do, and at the same time the societal factors that push young people into crime are getting worse. Both are because of, not in spite of, the last decade of or so of public policy which the people of Southend merrily voted for.

Thought politics wasn't allowed on here, or is it only certain political views?

Don't think you can just blame austerity. Would these kids not be stabbing each other if they had a skatepark or a youth club? There are many other factors - glamorisation of gang culture in certain genres of music, absent fathers/male role models. There are plenty of jobs out there for young people but seems many of them don't want to do proper work and can make money a lot more quickly and easily selling drugs or what have you.

But yes we need more police on the streets and tougher sentencing for knife crime, bring back more stop and search.

 

[ThurrockShrimper]

Agree with every word. Thank you for such a succinct and accurate analysis of why the UK has descended into such shambolic chaos.

pull the ladder up, I'm alright Jack culture....

The regressive 'bringing back national service' mantra, I'm afraid, is something touted by people who never actually did national service. The Krays and the Richardsons etc did national service and that didn't stop them being violent scumbags. I've seen countless posts on social media today from people of my parents / in-laws generation slagging off today's youth to the high heavens. Mods and rockers on Brighton seafront ring any bells? National Front skinheads terrorising ethnic minorities in the 70s and 80s??

I'd like to add, in no way, am I condoning last night's despicable behaviour, but I'm really sick of this notion that the younger generation have 'no respect' etc. 'Gen Z' have been shafted in many ways and have fewer opportunities and prospects than those of previous generations.

 

[GBJ]

Ok, we’re getting a bit political here, so let’s steer clear of that please.

Any more will be deleted. Anyone intent on circumventing that request will be axed from the thread

 

[rigsby]

Back on topic. I just picked mate up from Southend Central. He said police are guarding a crime scene from a stabbing last night. There has been similar reports in other parts of the city.

MSM are only reporting 8 arrests and some knifes re-covered. Why are they hiding basic facts and trying to play it down?

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

pull the ladder up, I'm alright Jack culture....

The regressive 'bringing back national service' mantra, I'm afraid, is something touted by people who never actually did national service. The Krays and the Richardsons etc did national service and that didn't stop them being violent scumbags. I've seen countless posts on social media today from people of my parents / in-laws generation slagging off today's youth to the high heavens. Mods and rockers on Brighton seafront ring any bells? National Front skinheads terrorising ethnic minorities in the 70s and 80s??

I'd like to add, in no way, am I condoning last night's despicable behaviour, but I'm really sick of this notion that the younger generation have 'no respect' etc. 'Gen Z' have been shafted in many ways and have fewer opportunities and prospects than those of previous generations.

After being threatened with being "seconds from heaven" by some little scrote, whilst his mate sat there kicking me, all on a packed tube train on a Saturday night forgive me if I don't agree with the above.

 

[North Banker]

Thought politics wasn't allowed on here, or is it only certain political views?

This thread is all politics! Crime is politics, policing is politics, we're all talking about a problem that exists in society and how to fix it so of course there's politics, that's literally what politics is. "We need to lock them up" and "we need to look at the root causes" are just as political as each other. SZ can have this discussion or it can not, I don't mind, but if not then it can only be a place where facts are shared on topics like this and not opinions.

Don't think you can just blame austerity. Would these kids not be stabbing each other if they had a skatepark or a youth club? There are many other factors - glamorisation of gang culture in certain genres of music, absent fathers/male role models. There are plenty of jobs out there for young people but seems many of them don't want to do proper work and can make money a lot more quickly and easily selling drugs or what have you.

Of course. My whole point is that there aren't easy answers and a lot needs to change, all of that included.

But it's not just cultural, the whole of society has been reshaped and material conditions have got worse for young people in so many ways. There's a lot of evidence that millennials are the first generation to enter the workforce and not earn more than the generation before them, not to mention that so many are living with their parents well into their 20s and even 30s (like many of my friends) because previous generations have selfishly screwed up the housing market so much. Our political culture entirely panders to older people because they're the ones who vote, so everyone has an incentive to parrot the narrative that kids are all layabout yobbos who don't know how good they have it. The reality is it's tough out there and if you want to put your fingers in your ears and pretend that just because you've had it good then all the problems in the world must be because everyone else is actually just lazy, that's fine, but it's not going to make the problems go away.

 

[ThurrockShrimper]

After being threatened with being "seconds from heaven" by some little scrote, whilst his mate sat there kicking me, all on a packed tube train on a Saturday night forgive me if I don't agree with the above.

I'm sorry to hear that. I saw a man in his 50s violently assault a worker in Barking Tesco yesterday. There are rotten eggs in all age groups.

 

[blues exile]

This thread is all politics! Crime is politics, policing is politics, we're all talking about a problem that exists in society and how to fix it so of course there's politics, that's literally what politics is. "We need to lock them up" and "we need to look at the root causes" are just as political as each other. SZ can have this discussion or it can not, I don't mind, but if not then it can only be a place where facts are shared on topics like this and not opinions.

Of course. My whole point is that there aren't easy answers and a lot needs to change, all of that included.

But it's not just cultural, the whole of society has been reshaped and material conditions have got worse for young people in so many ways. There's a lot of evidence that millennials are the first generation to enter the workforce and not earn more than the generation before them, not to mention that so many are living with their parents well into their 20s and even 30s (like many of my friends) because previous generations have selfishly screwed up the housing market so much. Our political culture entirely panders to older people because they're the ones who vote, so everyone has an incentive to parrot the narrative that kids are all layabout yobbos who don't know how good they have it. The reality is it's tough out there and if you want to put your fingers in your ears and pretend that just because you've had it good then all the problems in the world must be because everyone else is actually just lazy, that's fine, but it's not going to make the problems go away.

Of course the idea that you can have a meaningul discussion on these issues without a political dimension is nonsense.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I’d have thought setting up a temporary metal detector at the stations when they know there are going to be such gatherings would be a good start to confiscate the illegal knives before anything escalates.

Could probably be paid for by revenue enforcement inspectors checking their tickets.

 

[Mad Cyril]

People laughed when Rishi included this in the Conservative manifesto, but it would stop a lot of this s**t going on....

Because there is never any trouble in garrison towns and naval ports.

Ever.

 

[Mad Cyril]

If we could get rid of the anti social element Southend could be the new Ibiza

 

[Mad Cyril]

I wondered where these kids even get machetes from

Going Bros?

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

I’d have thought setting up a temporary metal detector at the stations when they know there are going to be such gatherings would be a good start to confiscate the illegal knives before anything escalates.

Could probably be paid for by revenue enforcement inspectors checking their tickets.

Confiscate knives? illegal knives?
These are crimes; nick the criminals, prosecute the criminals.

And too true about the tickets.
What odds that a few might be "wanted" when checked too?

A few drugs dogs and a copper "sniffing" the weed might help too. It might not seem that way in the High Street but cannabis is illegal.

 

[Cockle43]

Apparantly the groups fighting were two rival gangs from the postcodes IG1 & IG3 (Ilford/Seven Kings)

This isn't a one off, it is pre-arranged for about the same time every year. It was all over social media, so I fail to see how the Police haven't deployed the resources required to deal with it. The only way they get here is on train. Shut the bloody stations for a few hours if you have to, yes it is an inconvenience, but absolutely necessary. At the very least put dozens of police at the two stations, section 60 every single one and send them back to London.

If that was a mob of football hooligans coming from London, they would of been monitored, wrapped up by Police and either sent back home, or given an escort to the ground. Yet hundreds of kids can travel here (all pre-planned on social media) from London with 2ft machetes and terrorise our streets, with little to nothing to stop them. Someone at Southend Police & Council needs to grab this by the balls and stop it happening next summer, before more lives are lost to bladed weapons. I say a 20 year sentence for carrying and build more prisons.

We've had the "Knife Angel" in the High St all month as well. The irony.

Bit difficult for other stations, which no doubt they would soon start using, but Southend Central is ideally set up for a corralling and Section 60 operation with a knife arch. Simply close off the down side exit and direct all through the subway to the up side, close the doors to the ticket hall and direct all towards the upside gateline and then held in the large area to the left of the gateline. At that point all passengers have to exit through a knife arch at the old parcels ramp, be subject to a Section 60 search and any showing any threat escorted through the up gateline and put straight on the next up train, ideally a 'special' could be in the 'dock' platform and when filled first stop Barking...
Drastic, I know, but drastic measures are called for and the message will soon get through. perhaps they'll go elsewhere, I'm told Clacton is quite nice this time of year and the new MP there seems to have plenty to say on the matter.

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

The video I've seen it's the security guards from the arcades in the hi Vis watching (rightly so) not the police

I'm talking about the other knife fight video nearer to The Hope. Some police watched. Then the VG police arrived in numbers and waded in and arrested people. It seems to have been taken down. Probably to be used as evidence.

 

[The Original Tribal Chief]

'Youths'