Sale of Southend United to Justin Rees and his consortium

[Shrimper]

It's all looking a bit desperate now, isn't it?

But there is possibly another outcome or two here.

1) Ron could decide to dip into his family fund again (if one exists) although this is unlikely,
or

2) The club have come to arrangements with the supporting creditors to the WUP and they have agreed that, if the Order is dismissed, then they will agree to staged payments (which will have to be set down and agreed in writing I would imagine). Then it's just HMRC to pay and this means the club only needs to raise £250-odd grand to survive.

It's not ideal and it just kicks the can down the road further. But the club would live to fight another day.

I can't see anythi8ng else happening before 4th to be honest.

DIdn't Emerson push for the club to be wound up last meeting? Or was that HMRC.

 

[tommy tucker]

There are loads of chain stores which are similar to Wilko, B&M, The Range, Poundland, Home Bargains, and the list goes on. There's only ONE Southend Utd, nuff said.

As it well known there is only as you put it 6000 fans going into roots hall .But it is also known this total is because of 1 man If that man wqas gone i would exspcet the gate to rise to up to 8000 Looking at gates in this leaige it is one of the best supported clubs .Wilcos are a dead duck .Lets hope and pry SUSF isnt another one .

 

[Westcliff DGS]

It's all looking a bit desperate now, isn't it?

But there is possibly another outcome or two here.

1) Ron could decide to dip into his family fund again (if one exists) although this is unlikely,
or

2) The club have come to arrangements with the supporting creditors to the WUP and they have agreed that, if the Order is dismissed, then they will agree to staged payments (which will have to be set down and agreed in writing I would imagine). Then it's just HMRC to pay and this means the club only needs to raise £250-odd grand to survive.

It's not ideal and it just kicks the can down the road further. But the club would live to fight another day.

I can't see anythi8ng else happening before 4th to be honest.

Have they, hadn’t seen that anywhere, i was under the impression that Emersons were not willing to discuss the issue any further

 

[bazzashrimper]

DIdn't Emerson push for the club to be wound up last meeting? Or was that HMRC.

It was more than HMRC, but to FBMs point, if HMRC were paid, would the others persist with the WUP? They would know that they would likely be writing off that money as things stand and it may not necessarily be in their best interests from other perspectives. At the same time they would know that the subsequent WUP petition will follow for the next tax bill.

Either way - someone may take a punt for extra time at £170k (£250 minus the £80 paid by the vanarama - or this may even come down more if there is another tv payment due). It is kicking the can down the road though - the only way out is for Ron to accept an offer or something like admin.

 

[West Stand]

For some info Thurrock Council which in December was declared bankrupt after running up a £500m deficit had at the beginning of 2022 reserves of £66.3m. But during 2022 this reduced to just £12.2m by the councils update in December.

Southend Council and most other councils put up council tax each year. Why, when they could dip into their reserves (especially election years) to keep the council blue / red / yellow etc

The reserves are there to ensure that the money from taxpayers is put into development opportunities which deliver future income streams which benefits the council. The Seaway development would have earned them more than the £10m that was mentioned over a period of several years. After the initial outlay has been re-paid any future monies is additional income that the council benefits from.

This is what Thurrock Council gambled with with their move into renewable solar energy and they gambled big (and unfortunately put all their eggs literally into one guys pocket)

Whilst the Council could lend the trust monies to clear the debt, what are the council expecting back. The exact money lent to be re-paid back or are they going to be acting on the best interests of the taxpayers and ensuring that they get more than what has been lent Like any investor they will be looking to get a good return on their money that has been lent.

I am far from sure that legally the council can lend the trust even £1 without having to go through an incredibly arduous process but underpinning all that there would be a requirement to secure the debt ( I know that some keep talking about RH but you aren’t going to get the site for £1,2 or even £3 million they would then have guarantee a return on the investment and of course prepayment of the capital.

Even if you were looking at 3% over 25 years on just £1 million your talking of over £70 k a year or put another way around £3 k each home game.

Of course the WUO is pressing but even if that can be cleared there’s likely another WUO probably being drafted by HMRC solicitors even now.

 

[Rayleigh boy]

2023 revenues

season tickets sales around GBP 700k

sponsorship and ads 2023 700k

match day income ??

 

[fbm]

Have they, hadn’t seen that anywhere, i was under the impression that Emersons were not willing to discuss the issue any further

I have no idea if they have, I was just giving a couple of scenarios that could happen whereby we aren't wound up.

A bit of straw clutching on my part really.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

I have no idea if they have, I was just giving a couple of scenarios that could happen whereby we aren't wound up.

A bit of straw clutching on my part really.

Ah ok.

 

[fbm]

It was more than HMRC, but to FBMs point, if HMRC were paid, would the others persist with the WUP? They would know that they would likely be writing off that money as things stand and it may not necessarily be in their best interests from other perspectives. At the same time they would know that the subsequent WUP petition will follow for the next tax bill.

Either way - someone may take a punt for extra time at £170k (£250 minus the £80 paid by the vanarama - or this may even come down more if there is another tv payment due). It is kicking the can down the road though - the only way out is for Ron to accept an offer or something like admin.

The alternative though is that if the club is wound up its likely the supporting creditors will see nothing.

They can't enter into any agreement at the moment but they can say that IF the petition is dismissed then we will accept £x a month for a period of time..

 

[West Stand]

It was more than HMRC, but to FBMs point, if HMRC were paid, would the others persist with the WUP? They would know that they would likely be writing off that money as things stand and it may not necessarily be in their best interests from other perspectives. At the same time they would know that the subsequent WUP petition will follow for the next tax bill.

Either way - someone may take a punt for extra time at £170k (£250 minus the £80 paid by the vanarama - or this may even come down more if there is another tv payment due). It is kicking the can down the road though - the only way out is for Ron to accept an offer or something like admin.

Not quite sure it’s possible to choose which of the creditors now named in the WUP to the detriment of others.

What I mean by this is you are almost certainly looking at the total debt which if you accept HMRCs number is down to £170 k you are up to around £750k outstanding under the petition.

The £80 k paid to HMRC could at some point cause separate action because any creditor when agreeing to others joining in the petition has to very careful when it comes to accepting payments in preference.

Of course HMRC want payment but they have now probably been pushed too far the chances of them agreeing to an adjournment is unlikely. the chances to them trusting a RM lead FC to honouring any TTP agreement based on history is likewise unlikely

But irrespective of all that almost certainly if you can get Emersons to withdraw then HMRC are probably owed at least another £170 k and so the never ending story goes on and on

 

[West Stand]

The alternative though is that if the club is wound up its likely the supporting creditors will see nothing.

They can't enter into any agreement at the moment but they can say that IF the petition is dismissed then we will accept £x a month for a period of time..

As I pointed out previously if the creditors such as Emerson’s are able to write the debt off in their accounts they can claim bad debt VAT relief which in the case of Emerson’s could be worth £100k to them so to say they would see nothing is probably incorrect.

 

[* ORM *]

2023 revenues

season tickets sales around GBP 700k

sponsorship and ads 2023 700k

match day income ??

I unblocked you to see if you made any sense. Silly me. Blocked again.

 

[tommy tucker]

Ater hearing the talk with the councilor and the trust it seemes that all the guff about councilor cox saying no money is availlable for the club .it seemes as if said man i doing all he can to save the club .Having meeting with roland rat And the aussie who is trying to broker a deal .Does not seem to me that know one is doing nothing .

 

[tommy tucker]

It was also said it is not in roland rats best intresst to wind the club up .As it was said no club no new stadium So let the club die And it seems he will lose out big style .

 

[BEERMONSTER]

Without wanting to turn this into a political point, it doesn't sit well with me looking to the council to pay our debts off, or provide a loan (which would be secured against what?). I don't live in Southend anymore, but I would expect that there are far more pressing projects to be invested in than SUFC, plenty of potholes/wonky pavements to fix. Most of the population support West Ham and while they might be supportive initially of helping the club out, may soon begrudge the decision when it comes to pass that the millions invested in the club which has disappeared from other planned projects. I think it's a bad idea, and the wrong place to be looking for help (other than trying to find a buyer!!)

As I've stated many times now, we need a new owner who can in the short term invest in getting us out of the NL and L2, and then hopefully we can stabilize under a well managed club.

I would take issue with your statement of most of the population support West Ham, not these days anyway. Southend as an area like other Essex towns saw post 2nd WW migration from London. My family moved here in 1962 when I was 1yr old from Islington and had allegiances to both Arsenal and Spurs, yes I was a product of a mixed marriage! A lot of the London Club associations lived on in families as I was growing up but I believe that the demographics have changed in Southend over the last 30 years, more so than other Essex towns along the A13 corridor. We have a generation of supporters who grew up over the 80's & 90' who despite historic family connections have chosen SUFC as their team, and passed that on to their own kids and so on. I consider this evolution as a corner stone of our continued ability to achieve crowds above the expectations of our League and provide the spark of hope for what could be obtainable in the future. People may point out that even in the days of the Championship we didn't sell out, but based on the Roots Capacity and Crowd segregation we didn't have a lot to play with. Also top flight football on Saturdays and travel to London hadn't priced itself out of the pockets so many. Even today we don't have a lot of spare capacity on match days given safety certificate reasons, Stadium condition and self imposed boycotting. Southend has a hard core fanbase and the Shrimpers are more in situ within the Southend area than some give credit for.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

Th

I would take issue with your statement of most of the population support West Ham, not these days anyway. Southend as an area like other Essex towns saw post 2nd WW migration from London. My family moved here in 1962 when I was 1yr old from Islington and had allegiances to both Arsenal and Spurs, yes I was a product of a mixed marriage! A lot of the London Club associations lived on in families as I was growing up but I believe that the demographics have changed in Southend over the last 30 years, more so than other Essex towns along the A13 corridor. We have a generation of supporters who grew up over the 80's & 90' who despite historic family connections have chosen SUFC as their team, and passed that on to their own kids and so on. I consider this evolution as a corner stone of our continued ability to achieve crowds above the expectations of our League and provide the spark of hope for what could be obtainable in the future. People may point out that even in the days of the Championship we didn't sell out, but based on the Roots Capacity and Crowd segregation we didn't have a lot to play with. Also top flight football on Saturdays and travel to London hadn't priced itself out of the pockets so many. Even today we don't have a lot of spare capacity on match days given safety certificate reasons, Stadium condition and self imposed boycotting. Southend has a hard core fanbase and the Shrimpers are more in situ within the Southend area than some give credit for.

That could well be the case for the 25/30-55/60 age bracket, I coached a kids football from age 6 till they were 18 and none ( other than my son) of the 40-50 odd players in that time were Southend fans. Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham, Man City, Man Utd and the odd Liverpool fan

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I would take issue with your statement of most of the population support West Ham, not these days anyway. Southend as an area like other Essex towns saw post 2nd WW migration from London. My family moved here in 1962 when I was 1yr old from Islington and had allegiances to both Arsenal and Spurs, yes I was a product of a mixed marriage! A lot of the London Club associations lived on in families as I was growing up but I believe that the demographics have changed in Southend over the last 30 years, more so than other Essex towns along the A13 corridor. We have a generation of supporters who grew up over the 80's & 90' who despite historic family connections have chosen SUFC as their team, and passed that on to their own kids and so on. I consider this evolution as a corner stone of our continued ability to achieve crowds above the expectations of our League and provide the spark of hope for what could be obtainable in the future. People may point out that even in the days of the Championship we didn't sell out, but based on the Roots Capacity and Crowd segregation we didn't have a lot to play with. Also top flight football on Saturdays and travel to London hadn't priced itself out of the pockets so many. Even today we don't have a lot of spare capacity on match days given safety certificate reasons, Stadium condition and self imposed boycotting. Southend has a hard core fanbase and the Shrimpers are more in situ within the Southend area than some give credit for.

Absolutely right. My dad is a March 1946 vintage true Cockney who was raised in a council estate, then met mum in the Kursaal and moved to Southend. Nine months earlier was VE Day and dad’s parentage on the father’s side has never been known, so we’ll gloss over that detail…

He’s a spammer. He’s not been to one of their games for decades though, but regularly gets to about 10 games a season at Roots Hall.

 

[Jai]

Without wanting to turn this into a political point, it doesn't sit well with me looking to the council to pay our debts off, or provide a loan (which would be secured against what?). I don't live in Southend anymore, but I would expect that there are far more pressing projects to be invested in than SUFC, plenty of potholes/wonky pavements to fix. Most of the population support West Ham and while they might be supportive initially of helping the club out, may soon begrudge the decision when it comes to pass that the millions invested in the club which has disappeared from other planned projects. I think it's a bad idea, and the wrong place to be looking for help (other than trying to find a buyer!!)

As I've stated many times now, we need a new owner who can in the short term invest in getting us out of the NL and L2, and then hopefully we can stabilize under a well managed club.

If west ham fans don't want their local football club to be saved they should move back to East London.

 

[LeedsSUFC]

It's all looking a bit desperate now, isn't it?

But there is possibly another outcome or two here.

1) Ron could decide to dip into his family fund again (if one exists) although this is unlikely,
or

2) The club have come to arrangements with the supporting creditors to the WUP and they have agreed that, if the Order is dismissed, then they will agree to staged payments (which will have to be set down and agreed in writing I would imagine). Then it's just HMRC to pay and this means the club only needs to raise £250-odd grand to survive.

It's not ideal and it just kicks the can down the road further. But the club would live to fight another day.

I can't see anything else happening before 4th to be honest.

IMO, council & Firth & Dudridge all write letters to say, 'We think sale is happening, but if not the council can back the club financially'. It doesn't mean the council will actually pay anything, but it gives 'confidence'.

Ron gets adjournment because HMRC see a path to getting paid.

 

[Rayleigh boy]

I unblocked you to see if you made any sense. Silly me. Blocked again.

thats fine ..... you probably feel uncomfortable facing the facts...