religious

[Firestorm]

Personally I am not religious, I class myself as agnostic, rather more on the basis that something must have started all this....
I do not feel, however, that I am intelligent enough to have the ability to say one particular religion is correct and therefore all of the others are wrong.
IMHO Everyone who worships a god of some sort is worshipping the same one..its just the "legend" has been somewhat distorted over the thousands of years by a combination of chinese whispers, inability to write, read, mass produce documentation, as well as the deliberate deception of those who have used the name of religion to underline their power and undermine others.

Unfortunately religion (or rather the instance that one pwrticular religion is right and the others must be elimated, converted) has been responsible for many of the major conflicts in history, and is currently not incidental in what is happening in the world today (not Euro 2008 .....)

 

[Firestorm]

The amazing thing for me, as this really is the most important debate in the world, that you base the main flaw because he spread word by word of mouth. Surely it's an amazing feat that 12 men spread it to be the best selling book ever? Surely it's more then good marketing..

The 12 men wrote some of it down, as did many others, then a good couple of years later a number of priests sat down and chose the best bits which served their purpose and put them together.
As for the old testament that had nothing to do with the 12 Men at all (and that does form the larger part of the Bible) although technically as it predates Christ it can not be deemed to be "Christian"

 

[Cricko]

What is happening in the world today is mainly by corrupt governments...The President of the USA has been there 8 years on default.....We sit back and watch Mugabe.....go to food conferences and drive around in Mercs whist people in his own country starve.... The UK is in Pointless wars we can never win.This world is only IMO heading for the biggest wake up call ever.......it is about time people stopped thinking what is best for me and started thinking what is best for everybody.

 

[OldBlueLady]

There's some cracking stuff in this thread and from a surprising variety of sources. I just want to make clear that I have not interpreted TBIAPS's comments unfavourably.

I think MattTS is quite right in what he says, and for me, although there are aspects of the Old Testament which I quite enjoy, it is the New Testament that is the foundation for my belief. Yes, I attended Sunday School as a youngster at CofE churches, when able to choose for myself, I spent a lot of my formative years (14-19) attending Hadleigh Methodist Church and becoming fully involved there at many levels, including teaching Sunday School, helping start up many young people's groups and reading sermons in services. At my current church I also helped with Sunday School and holiday camps for many, many years. It's always been an extended family.

I hate the way that extremists latch on to the word "religion" and atrocities are carried out in the name of God/Allah or whoever. This is not religious fervour but incitement.

Ps - Just seen Cricko's post, the do unto others as you would have them do unto you bit is exactly what is wrong in the world today. A bit less greed and a bit more thought and there would be a lot more happiness.

 

[Jedi Shrimper]

Oh and if the best evidence you can come up with to support the existence of God is that Jesus existed and and that there are a plethora of other reasons besides religion where people mindlessly kill people then well done. I'd like to hear some more evidence but as has been said before, it seems to offend religious people to be asked to do this...

And where is the solid evidence that 'God' does not exist? There is no quantifable way of proving the existance or not of a higher power.

they all had the same goal to believe in something their inner self craved.

Exactly, whether we choose to believe in god/religion/atheism there is something inside us that makes ask, why?

What I am trying to say is that atheists can also be guilty of sheep-like refusal to think and atheism can be a 'faith' that its adherents do not wish to budge from.

Spot on, too many atheists refuse to see that 'atheism' is just as much a faith, and are just a close minded as the 'sheep-like' followers of religion.

While I am agnostic, believing in a higher power, i can accept the possibility that there is no such thing. This universe is nothing if not full of possibilites.

"The mind is like an umbrella, it works best open"

 

[Firestorm]

it is about time people stopped thinking what is best for me and started thinking what is best for everybody.

Hear Hear !!

I was referring mainly to Afghanistan , Iraq and the fear of terrorist attacks , although tribal conflict in africa may have a quasi-religious element

 

[Mad Cyril]

That's quite a poor point really Cyril.

What you've just said is, that because Jesus spread the word by word of mouth, by human contact rather then flashing visions or whatever you'd want him to do (not really sure, up to you I suppose) then this is the MAIN downfall of Christianity. He should have done it in flashing colours and massive flash floods of honey. In the time it happened, he was hardly going to send out an e-mail. The thing to note is, that he could have done floods of honey (is my belief, of course) but why would he want to prove himself to man that he is God? God doesn't want man to love him for any other reason then because they want to. For what's the point of love if God has had to prove himself first? Faith is definately key in religion, but it's not the only part.

The amazing thing for me, as this really is the most important debate in the world, that you base the main flaw because he spread word by word of mouth. Surely it's an amazing feat that 12 men spread it to be the best selling book ever? Surely it's more then good marketing..

Why is it a poor point?

Why do people not see the wonder of god until some evangelist has explained the concept to them first?

 

[Jedi Shrimper]

How did you find out about southend utd before someone told you?

 

[Cricko]

Why is it a poor point?

Why do people not see the wonder of god until some evangelist has explained the concept to them first?

Oh please.You are a father...did you not love your child the second you saw him/her...Was this taught to you somewhere or was that GOD given.

No offence Cyril mate ...but this attitude makes us the selfish world we are .if you cannot prove something or disprove it , you go with what your heart tells you.....I could type here alday to prove Love exists within all....you are going to have to think a lot harder than me to prove that there is no God

 

[fredheim_holm]

Why is it a poor point?

Why do people not see the wonder of god until some evangelist has explained the concept to them first?

I do think it's a poor point (your opinion is as worthy of mine of course). If the main downfall of a religion is because 12 men spread the word, then I really don't understand whether you have ever wanted to believe in God. Maybe it just makes you feel insecure that you're accountable for your wrongdoings? Who knows eh..

 

[callan]

Oh please.You are a father...did you not love your child the second you saw him/her...Was this taught to you somewhere or was that GOD given.

No offence Cyril mate ...but this attitude makes us the selfish world we are .if you cannot prove something or disprove it , you go with what your heart tells you.....I could type here alday to prove Love exists within all....you are going to have to think a lot harder than me to prove that there is no God

Blimey cricko I think I've seen the light, my heart has been telling me go back to drinking bitter whilst my head says lager.
I'm going to do what you say and change my attitude, follow the love so to speak....i dont want to know how the bitter was created or why a large bloke called ken go's off to fetch it for me all I need to know is there is a lovely pint of bitter for me to love unselfishly.
I'm also going to give up thinking, never a stong point of mine.

 

[Cricko]

Blimey cricko I think I've seen the light, my heart has been telling me go back to drinking bitter whilst my head says lager.
I'm going to do what you say and change my attitude, follow the love so to speak....i dont want to know how the bitter was created or why a large bloke called ken go's off to fetch it for me all I need to know is there is a lovely pint of bitter for me to love unselfishly.
I'm also going to give up thinking, never a stong point of mine.

Thinking has never been your strong point mate.....Go with the flow..everything happens for a reason ...;)

 

[leeblue]

Certainly not anti religion I respect everyones right to believe/worship whatever whatever/whoever they want....IMO there is no god, any god that would let some of the **** that happens in this world must be some sort of ****, surely any god worth a tuppence would do something about kiddy fiddlers, rapists etc etc etc, rubbish. Religion was created to control the masses end of. Adam and EVE or evolution hang on let me just look at the EVIDENCE here................I am also completely at ease with the fact that when I die that is it, no pearly gates etc etc I am worm food

 

[Cricko]

Certainly not anti religion I respect everyones right to believe/worship whatever whatever/whoever they want....IMO there is no god, any god that would let some of the **** that happens in this world must be some sort of ****, surely any god worth a tuppence would do something about kiddy fiddlers, rapists etc etc etc, rubbish. Religion was created to control the masses end of. Adam and EVE or evolution hang on let me just look at the EVIDENCE here................I am also completely at ease with the fact that when I die that is it, no pearly gates etc etc I am worm food

Did God Create Kiddy fiddlers, did God create Porn, starvation,wars, or did God give us freedom of choice and we all fooked it up.

 

[leeblue]

god doesnt exsist so no he didnt create anything

 

[Cricko]

god doesnt exsist so no he didnt create anything

Prove it.....

 

[A Century United]

This board is supposed to be about opinions and mine is that organised religion is based on sheep-like thinking and killing in the name of religion is about as sheep-like as it gets. I live in the Middle East so I don't hear so much about the Salvation Army but I do hear a lot more about the divisive nature of religion, the restrictions it places on peoples lives and the senseless killing of human beings in it's name. I don't care if you see that view as not being "mature debate" but it's just an opinion. It wasn't intended as a personal dig at OBL or Teesside Shrimper so kindly step away from the high horse.

Oh and if the best evidence you can come up with to support the existence of God is that Jesus existed and and that there are a plethora of other reasons besides religion where people mindlessly kill people then well done. I'd like to hear some more evidence but as has been said before, it seems to offend religious people to be asked to do this...

I'm also aware that religion isn't all bad and that there are plenty of fantastic charitable organisations doing great work around the World. I just think on balance, that in the current climate it divides us more than it brings us together.

I didn't try and deprive you of your opinion, I just said that calling people who disagree with you sheep-like isn't mature debate, and nothing you have said makes me want to change MY opinion.

The point I made about the Historical reality of Jesus was to answer your arguement that there was no evidence. I wasn't trying to show you all the evidence, just to demonstrate that there IS evidence.

You say:

Oh and if the best evidence you can come up with to support the existence of God ... and that there are a plethora of other reasons besides religion where people mindlessly kill people then well done.

But I didn't say that at all. I said that the EVIDENCE is that the vast majority of slaughter carried out on this Earth has been in the name of ANTI-RELIGION, which is a different thing. Also, there are plenty of people who are quite prepared to debate on the evidence - I would happily send you books which do just that if you wanted. And I don't think that anything I wrote in my original post was tantamount (did you see what I did there?) to getting on my high horse, just structured responses to what you wrote.

 

[leeblue]

prove he does.........

 

[OldBlueLady]

Did God Create Kiddy fiddlers, did God create Porn, starvation,wars, or did God give us freedom of choice and we all fooked it up.

Absolutely right of course. Most of these things are man made or as a result of man's intervention. In the case of paedophiles, rapists and such like, these are people with a moral imbalance. In some cases this will be genetic, but in others it can safely be said it is down to man's interference somewhere along the line.

 

[Cricko]

prove he does.........

This is where your faith, if any comes into question.......If, now this is going to sound bad your son was born but was different you would love him the same no doubt...if he is perfect most people would say thank God.................Funny enough Lee I have heard you quote that exact phrase even at SZFC footie.....Thank God!..............I have proof, so have you look at your heathly son and realise that the world is not all sunshine...

I am sorry if my acronym sounds harsh.