Quite a Turnaround

[gpd]

Well I have for one voted for Brown to go and I haven't changed my mind. Sure I am enjoying the run we are on but the season is so far following a predictable pattern. Poor start followed by a recovery but can we sustain it ? We are sill playing catch up.

What...like Barnsley did last season? From bottom to promotion over a whole season.....I'd be happy with a whole season catching up like they did if we get the same end result.

 

[fbm]

Agree with almost all of the above posts.

Rochdale was a hideous game where we (Southend United) looked completely out of our depth.

There are a number of factors but I think it all stems from the strikers keeping the ball and providing a threat. Note that is strikers (plural) rather than one individual isolated and alone. And Ranger is the big factor here of course.

That pulls the opposition midfield back and gives them a more defensive brain set and that allows our midfielders to get more forward in support. And the midfield is now more balanced and settled.

And the defence is working because it is being marshalled by Anton, Thompson is showing the potential seen from time to time and Cokes* and Demmy are showing that they are good players at this level.

And Oxley does deserve some praise .......... but I would think most goalies would lose confidence when the team in front of them is as porous as a sponge. Now there is a team (and not just a collection of individuals) for him to marshall, The Ox seems capable of being a good goalie at this level.

If I had to mention one element that has led to the improvement it would be Ranger's inclusion.


* I have not been one that has said that Cokes is playing poorly - Cokes is only 1 player in the team and if the midfield and attack are poor then he has to stay back and not get caught out of position when the ball comes straight back again after being cleared.

Absolutely spot on.

Ranger's mere presence means that defenders now have to be aware of not only hime but also the second ball which will inevitably follow as Ranger is so good in the air. It effectively means that 2 defenders and probably 2 midfielders are now focusing on him, giving everyone else much more space.

 

[fbm]

As Above!
What Rab has typed is a much clearer expression of my point of view too.
Sometimes what defines people is how they deal with difficult times.

That's the same with anything. Whether it's an individual, a team or a company, it's how they deal with the bad times that shows their true worth.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I can see your point YorkshireBlue ..... yes Brown goes in for large scale changes and yes he falls out with players and yes, it feels like we would deteriorate with a couple of injuries.

And I hope I haven't misinterpreted your post but you mention above about "inheriting a rotten side" for a successor to Brown (have I got that right?). Should Brown leave soon, for the sake of argument that is, I do not see that the vast majority of the squad we have as being anything other than capable of playing in this division ........... and so a successor would have a goodish group of players to work with - and therefore not a poisoned chalice at all.

A key point for me about the XI that were taking to the pitch earlier in the season was that they were not a team but a group of players without the correct direction, leadership and organisation. I'm not into bashing or praising Brown but that surely is down to the management team.

As far as I'm concerned the vast majority of L2 players could play in L1 IF in the right system for their strengths and weaknesses. They wouldn't necessarily star, but they could do a job. We got promoted from this division last time with Che Wilson at left-back.

The rotten side would be more a side with lots of holes in, rather than individually bad players. We have no centre-half or central midfielder under contract for next year (don't know who has to agree to exercise Leonard's option). We have a significant number of players who are past their best and on the wane. We have no real assets to flog, apparently no youth players emerging, no cup windfall - only the Bentley and Payne instalments. We seem to be very much living for the now than looking at the future. Maybe the lack of players under contract is a good thing as it means a new manager could rebuild from pretty much scratch.

 

[TTS]

As far as I'm concerned the vast majority of L2 players could play in L1 IF in the right system for their strengths and weaknesses. They wouldn't necessarily star, but they could do a job. We got promoted from this division last time with Che Wilson at left-back.

The rotten side would be more a side with lots of holes in, rather than individually bad players. We have no centre-half or central midfielder under contract for next year (don't know who has to agree to exercise Leonard's option). We have a significant number of players who are past their best and on the wane. We have no real assets to flog, apparently no youth players emerging, no cup windfall - only the Bentley and Payne instalments. We seem to be very much living for the now than looking at the future. Maybe the lack of players under contract is a good thing as it means a new manager could rebuild from pretty much scratch.

Just one point I would like to make about the fact we are reliant on one player . You state what a great team player Che Wilson , which he was , but let's not kid ourselves , our two promotions under Tilly was also relient on one player , Freddy ! Yes we had other very good players , but our squad was just as thin as it is now, but we were able to avoid any major injuries, again especially to Freddy !

 

[rigsby]

As far as I'm concerned the vast majority of L2 players could play in L1 IF in the right system for their strengths and weaknesses. They wouldn't necessarily star, but they could do a job. We got promoted from this division last time with Che Wilson at left-back.

The rotten side would be more a side with lots of holes in, rather than individually bad players. We have no centre-half or central midfielder under contract for next year (don't know who has to agree to exercise Leonard's option). We have a significant number of players who are past their best and on the wane. We have no real assets to flog, apparently no youth players emerging, no cup windfall - only the Bentley and Payne instalments. We seem to be very much living for the now than looking at the future. Maybe the lack of players under contract is a good thing as it means a new manager could rebuild from pretty much scratch.

Well I'm glad you cleared that one up.

They say Yorkshire men are dour miserable b******s. If its not Brown, its Brexit and in this case everything about the club including the youth team.

 

[AndyT]

What a negative outlook on life.

Maybe if we keep this run going, those players will sign longer contracts and some of our younger players will gel into the system and the plan ahead. I'd be interested to know what players are "past their best"?

People often amaze me when they think we are just winging it, effectively.

PB has had an ambition to move the club forward since he has been here. Granted, his head was turned by the Bolton job, but aside from that, he has tried and succeeded in bringing quality players in to replace L2 standard ones and the team is starting to take shape and make things happen.

I've had a few doubts, sure, but maybe it's time to start believing that he might just know what he is doing.

The other point I would make is that Ranger is a key part in where we go, but don't under-estimate the value of McL, Wordy, Cox, Ferdy and the like.

We are growing game by game and frankly, I'm loving seeing it!

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

What a negative outlook on life.

Maybe if we keep this run going, those players will sign longer contracts and some of your younger players will gel into the system and the plan ahead.

We are growing game by game and frankly, I'm loving seeing it!

Good point Andy. I suggest the contracts for Fortune AND Sokolik get sorted pdq and extended until the end of the season.
I don't now who we have contracted extension clauses on BUT now, while we are in a "happy" place would be a good time to sort those that are going to be retained next season.

 

[AndyT]

Spot on, Massimo, though it's a tough one with contracts. Definitely the key players are the ones to look at as a priority, especially with agents looking to peddle them, potentially, in the upcoming transfer window. Also, part of our dip last season was the uncertainty surrounding contracts and plans for this season, so identifying those we definitely want here in 2017-18 and getting into negotiations early is a positive step.

There's a real vibe about the place and you only need to look on the players' Twitter accounts to see how much they are enjoying the results and the success.

Ranger has been a revelation, but Fortune was also hungry and keen to impress when he came on Saturday. Cox is making things happen and the form of McL and Wordy is fantastic too.

By all accounts, the attitude is really good amongst those on the fringes, as well. They seem to be enjoying the success as much as those playing.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

Well Massimo and Andy T I dig all this good vibes and happiness that comes from a team scoring 7 goals in 2 games .......... but as has been pointed out things have been worse than they should have been just a few games ago.

It may well have largely been gossip about the dressing room but the fact that Brown "falls out" with so many players seems odd to me - Barrett is the latest but before that was Bolger and others.

It's a personal view but I have been much more impressed by the man management of other managers than by Brown and I wonder if that will have an effect on whether players want to stick around - I suspect it is not a large factor ......... until another club comes knocking on a player's door.

 

[AndyT]

Fair point, but those players' he has supposedly "fallen out" with have hardly gone on to greater things elsewhere and those, replacing them, have improved us. Maybe that was the real issue, here.

I love AB, but Ferdy is a level above and he seems to have given the players around him a new found confidence. The biggest surprise being Thommo. He just seems to visibly grow with every minute on the pitch. Same goes for Oxley.

As 'Rigsby' said a while back, PB would have stuck with 4-4-2 after the Sheffield United win, but for Ranger's injury. We then started leaking goals, so tried to shore up the back-line, at the detriment of Cox upfront.

Now he has the formula right and the players fit, which we were right to give him time on, the whole ship is steaming forwards.

His man-management seems to be fine at the moment and I'm not sure it wasn't overly, before.

 

[Shrimp Curry]

You can tell there's been a turnaround, the Brown out calls and the Ron Martin protests haven't been mentioned much. It always seems quieter on here when we're doing well.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

You can tell there's been a turnaround, the Brown out calls and the Ron Martin protests haven't been mentioned much. It always seems quieter on here when we're doing well.

Absolutely right - when things are going well the level of posts declines ......... for instance what team to put out - little to discuss as it is the same as last match and so on.

Human nature I suppose ........... after all who doesn't like to have a good moan from time to time. :smile:

 

[leeblue]

The Base for any discussions on form/results etc should be expectations...realistic ones at that. At the start of this season I thought mid table would be about right....looking at the season so far not too much to moan about. Poor start....now winning matches.
I generally do not agree with Yorkshire blue his extreme dislike of brown makes his views biased IMO...but he is spot on regarding the transfer policy. More long term view needed.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

As far as I'm concerned the vast majority of L2 players could play in L1 IF in the right system for their strengths and weaknesses. They wouldn't necessarily star, but they could do a job. We got promoted from this division last time with Che Wilson at left-back.

The rotten side would be more a side with lots of holes in, rather than individually bad players. We have no centre-half or central midfielder under contract for next year (don't know who has to agree to exercise Leonard's option). We have a significant number of players who are past their best and on the wane. We have no real assets to flog, apparently no youth players emerging, no cup windfall - only the Bentley and Payne instalments. We seem to be very much living for the now than looking at the future. Maybe the lack of players under contract is a good thing as it means a new manager could rebuild from pretty much scratch.

Not so sure about this, most of them are in their prime. Ferdinand and Fortune are the only ones over 30 I believe, and the vast majority are in their mid 20's....

 

[AndyT]

Not so sure about this, most of them are in their prime. Ferdinand and Fortune are the only ones over 30 I believe, and the vast majority are in their mid 20's....

Exactly. It's a myth that our squad is full of has-beens.

Fortune is 35, but he was only initially drafted in as cover, anyway.

Ferdinand is 31, which for a centre-back should give him at least another 5 years and his value around the club and in training with younger players coming through will be invaluable. I've already noticed how he is keen to help and encourage others around the squad. Thommo is already stepping up.

Cox and Demetriou are 29, Will 28, Wordy 27. Coker, Oxley and McLaughlin 26, the Lone Ranger 25 and Lenny and Thommo 24.

One of the best signings we made a while back was Shann Goater and I don't recall too many people moaning he was over the hill, once they saw his value and experience.

 

[fatgrandad]

I don't want to **** on anyone's chips, so if you only care about the latest result look away now, but I have a foreboding sense of deja vu from the mid-90s under Spud (pun not intended) when after an iffy start we signed Ronnie Whelan and with him in the team we somehow found ourselves in a play-off position, only for things to fall apart when Whelan predictably got injured and we went into free-fall.

I still don't think PB's the man for the job and I think as quickly things have got better they'll go wrong, particularly when (and not if) Ferdinand and Ranger get injured again. That's what happens when you build your foundations on sand. We've seen throughout the Brown era that PB's been unable to make the little adjustments once teams adjust to us and he ends up tearing things down and starts again with big changes of formation and personnel. In two months' time we'll have given up on 4-4-2 and be playing something like 5-3-2 or 4-3-2-1 (or have tried and failed at that and be back at 4-4-2 again); he'll have fallen out with Adam Thompson or yet another centre-half etc. We know this as we've seen it time after time.

I've called this season correctly so far - the struggle at the start from the lack of long term planning; a pick up in form around this time of the year - I just hope I'm wrong about the wheels coming off completely around February time. And I hope his successor doesn't struggle as much as Peter Taylor's successors struggled when they inherited a rotten side and little money as it had already been frittered away on too many forgettable journeymen. That lead to a double relegation and that thought is :omg:

So hopefully Ranger and Ferdinand can cope with 3 matches in 8 days - particularly as the weather is now cold and pitches heavy - Will Atkinson hasn't scored his quota for the season (lovely finish for his first), the lack of money from cup runs won't make wages late and we'll pick up some more points to guard against that winter collapse.

Wow. At least MrsBlue has come out with her humble pie post to express her pleasure at the current upturn in performances, alongside a (reasonable) warning that the "old" MrsBlue will return if/when things goes pear-shaped.

With this post, I detect not the slightest hint of pleasure in what is happening on the pitch, not the slightest chink of light at the end of the tunnel; just a relentlessly grim determination to put forward a carefully selected subset of facts/opinion to validate a view which became set in stone about 2 years ago.

I agree with some of the things you say - depth of squad, some unnecessary chopping and changing of systems, over-reliance on some "risky" players. But a "rotten team", forecasting fallouts with players, a dig at Will Atkinson for scoring a couple of goals??...too much contrived negativity in my book and I have to wonder how happy you would really be to be proven wrong?

Whatever, I don't want to wallow in this any more today, just want to look forward to my first game of the season tonight. As usual fearing the worst but very much hoping for the best outcome, with no preconceived opinion to validate.

 

[gpd]

To all the doomsayers......who seem to struggle to see anything good in how we have risen recently and seek to continue to be prophets of doom....... we are currently 9th and 1 point away from the play-offs and just 8 points away from the automatic places. Great stuff!! Goodness...can we not get at least a little happy at this fantastic place we find ourselves. With all the challenges a club of our size and resources against MUCH bigger clubs and budgets has to face, and the impact of injuries, (both actual and feared) the awful start we had when we clearly were below strength (certainly the strength we are now) and we have players who are really enjoying themselves, playing well together,and for each other, which is great to see and great to read about. I for one would have accepted a "just outside the play-offs, and playing well together, going in the right direction" at this point in the season every day. There will be losses and maybe even a few off days....but I have been really pleased at what we have in front of us at this moment in time. Keep going lads! The majority are behind you and will cheer you on to greater success! COYB's!!

 

[davewebbsbrain]

And not one mention of a "marquee" signing in the whole thread .......................... :tease:


I do agree with the comment above about how the team now looks like a good team ........... and a better team than when we were in the play-off positions last season when it just felt that we weren't quite as good as the position suggested.

It was a dome, not a marquee :winking:

 

[davewebbsbrain]

The "turnaround" is entirely down to Ranger and Ferdinand. Ranger's 6 starts now read Won 5 Drawn 1 GF 15 GA 2. Ferdinand's 10 league starts Won 5 drawn 4 lost 1. The signing of these two players was a high risk strategy bearing in mind their recent history and if both stay fit, focussed and at the club we could do very well. The 9 "proper" games when neither of them have started - won 1 drawn 1 lost 7.

Brown's strategy has been to sign name players -it didn't work with Hunt and Wordsworth last year.


Whatever went on in the discussions Brown had after the Rochdale game has resulted in a more positive attitude and Saturday's performance was exceptional as these two players allow everyone else to play. I suspect on or two of the newer signings put him straight. Having a premier league quality centre forward makes a lot of difference. Also the only two goals conceded in Ranger's matches were the unfortunate slip by Thompson at Bradford and the dodgy penalty at Bury.

At last there is a situation where the starting 11 picks itself and we are reaping the rewards of settled team. When we do slip up again I just hope Brown sticks with what we have now and doesn't take his normal strategy of axing 4 or 5 players and reverting to systems the players don't understand.

I've never liked Brown and doubt I ever will but as long as he remains lucky I'll be happy. I just wish he knew when to keep his gob shut.

Or perhaps a bald player that returned to the club for his secpnd spell, put Brown straight, never to be seen again