Mick
Life President
I understand that is still the case. A club can nominate one chosen unofficial site who then pay a small fee and can have full publication rights to the fixture list. Anyone asked them ?
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I understand that is still the case. A club can nominate one chosen unofficial site who then pay a small fee and can have full publication rights to the fixture list. Anyone asked them ?
Suffolk Blue
Manager
Paranoia gone mad!
I was merely showing what a nonsense this attempt at curtailing my free speech was and that I could refer to fixtures obliquely without fear and you've jumped in and proved them right.
Are you guys seriously going to delete every message that refers to plans to go to a match? You'll be very busy folks!
South Bank Hank
⭐⭐🦐
I'm concerned about the game with Percy but would expect us to go for the 3 points against Douglas...
Einstein
Esch Zhed Eff Schee
Will you be paying the court costs for ShrimperZone.com if we let you post things like that then? Thought not.
I never said it wasn't particularly stupid, however I'm here to protect ShrimperZone.com, not try and jeopardise a court case against them for so blatantly flouting the laws.
Additionally, why do it? ShrimperZone is run by Matt and co. and they pump a lot of their money into it because they want to see it as a success. We were quite courteous in our request not to post things that may damage SZ.com, however you still did it for absolutely no reason trying to be clever. There was no need for it. If you do not mind a legal challenge, then feel free to set up your own website and publish the fixtures when your names at the top of the paper.
Last edited:
Flinty
Not a member⭐🦐
Napster
No ⭐
Little do people know that SZ were served with a very nasty warning by the League's official solicitor a few years ago when Kenny posted a link to one of Southend's goals.
Fortunately, Matt helped me with that one and SZ lived another day. However, we are being watched, and one more slip could be very costly
I reiterate Einstein's caution- it's not worth it.
:(
Davros
The Whippet
Duck is a Tank engine
Donald, as well as Douglas, Edward, James & Gordon are Tender Engines
Davros
The Whippet
its a good point...
With Donald & Douglas being the cheeky Scottish twins, perhaps we should rename Hammell and Foran 'Donald & Douglas'.
Jam_Man
Life President
LOL. McCormack is Irish as well.
Xàbia Shrimper
Co-founder of ShrimperZone
Southend United could nominate ShrimperZone as an "official" independent website for the football club and the site would be charged just £1 to publish the fixtures. However we decided not to pursue this option when it was considered a few years back because SZ would have effectively lost its independence. (We had already been knocking away accusations of "being in bed with the club" after Scriv and I had several high profile meetings with SUFC over various issues.)
Xàbia Shrimper
Co-founder of ShrimperZone
BTW - for those who think it's scaremongering, this is a communique received by Watford's "Blind, Desperate and Stupid" fan website a couple of years ago:
Dear Sirs,
DataCo_NBCAD_10603
We write on behalf of the Football Data Co Limited which is the appointed licensee of the FA Premier League, the Football League, the Scottish Premier League and the Scottish Football League ("the Leagues") in respect of the licensing of certain intellectual property rights of the Leagues, including those in the fixture lists for this season August 2005 - May 2006 ("the Fixture Lists"), for use by third parties.
We have noticed that your website http://www.bsad.org/0405/reports/fixtures.html is displaying Football Fixtures. In order to display the Fixture Lists you must obtain the necessary licence from the Press Association.
We wish to make you aware that we have a good faith belief that your present use is an infringement of the Leagues' legal rights and that all such unauthorised use must cease immediately. Please confirm by return your agreement to this and give your undertaking to cease all such infringements on any and all of your web sites. Pending your response the Leagues' rights are fully reserved.
The Leagues have appointed the Press Association as their official agent for the licensing and distribution of the Fixtures List. If you have inadvertently infringed our clients' copyright please take immediate steps to contact the Press Association (Email customer.services@pa.press.net) to obtain the appropriate licence. Please confirm to us by e-mail that you are now seeking an appropriate licence. Because of the time sensitive nature of the Fixture Lists you are required to remove them immediately from your site pending the granting of a licence.
We thank you for your cooperation.
Yours sincerely,
[Removed]
NetResult
A Division of Projector NetResult Ltd
Mulberry House,
583 Fulham Road,
London
UK
SW6 5UA
They also contacted the site's hosting company with the following:
Dear [Hosting company],
We have tried to contact http://www.bsad.org/0405/reports/fixtures.html several times regarding its use of infringing football fixtures but have had no response. The site is displaying upcoming fixtures without purchasing the appropriate license. Please remove the fixtures immediately to prevent further action being taken.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you require further information regarding this issue.
Thank you
[Removed]
NetResult
The site argued the case and got the following response as a solution to publishing the fixture list on its website:
Dear Sirs,
I am writing in connection with the notice appearing on your site for the removal of future fixtures in the current season. I am the General Manager of Football DataCo which is owned by the Football League and the FA Premier League. DataCo is charged with the commercialisation of Fixtures and also other football data.
I think your readership should have the opportunity to understand what appears to be a punitive action in asking for the future fixtures to be removed from your website.
The Football League won a case in 1959 which awarded them copyright in their fixtures. Since this time they have marketed their fixtures and in more recent times additional data to go with the fixtures. This activity is 45 years old and therefore not something which is new.
I have received 2 telephone calls today from angry supporters of Watford, the first being entirely abusive and the other expressing displeasure - in neither instance were the callers prepared to listen to the reasons for the action before hanging up. This is disappointing.
Your site has been invited to contact DataCo or its agent PA to obtain the necessary licence. The administrators of the site chose not to take this action which forced us to escalate matters to the point where you would take notice.
You can purchase a licence in two ways. The first is with the permission of the club and is called becoming a "Nominated Fanzine" the cost of this is £1.00 + VAT. This scheme was put in place to enable sites such as yours to be able to use the fixtures. The second route also requires the permission of the club and involves the payment of a £266 + VAT fee where Nominated Fanzine status is not being awarded. A simple call or e-mail would have saved us having to escalate the steps taken against your site. Believe me, we would prefer to find a way for you to use the fixtures legitimately.
The core problem is this : the Leagues have built a business in their fixtures over the last 45 years which is worth millions each year. For most of these years this has not been an issue for fans. It has only been with the advent of the internet and therefore a cost effective way of fans wanting to use the fixtures that problems have arisen. Hence the creation of the Nomiinated Fanzine scheme as being an affordable way for fanzines to access the fixtures.
In UK law there is no allowance for "not for profit web sites" - we therefore have to treat all websites the same. It would be impossible for us to charge a pure commercial site and not also charge a so called "not for profit site". Both sites are available to all via the internet and compete for the same audience.
The only alternative for the leagues would be to decide to drop all charges for fixtures and therefore cut the stream of revenue that currently comes from this source. As you can appreciate this is not a palatable option considering the state of most club finances.
I therefore urge you to consider taking a licence and restoring the fixtures to your site. Please don't hesitate to contact me to discuss this option.
I can also confirm that there is no problem with showing fixtures and their results once the match has been played.
Yours sincerely
[Removed]
Football DataCo Ltd
Dear Sirs,
DataCo_NBCAD_10603
We write on behalf of the Football Data Co Limited which is the appointed licensee of the FA Premier League, the Football League, the Scottish Premier League and the Scottish Football League ("the Leagues") in respect of the licensing of certain intellectual property rights of the Leagues, including those in the fixture lists for this season August 2005 - May 2006 ("the Fixture Lists"), for use by third parties.
We have noticed that your website http://www.bsad.org/0405/reports/fixtures.html is displaying Football Fixtures. In order to display the Fixture Lists you must obtain the necessary licence from the Press Association.
We wish to make you aware that we have a good faith belief that your present use is an infringement of the Leagues' legal rights and that all such unauthorised use must cease immediately. Please confirm by return your agreement to this and give your undertaking to cease all such infringements on any and all of your web sites. Pending your response the Leagues' rights are fully reserved.
The Leagues have appointed the Press Association as their official agent for the licensing and distribution of the Fixtures List. If you have inadvertently infringed our clients' copyright please take immediate steps to contact the Press Association (Email customer.services@pa.press.net) to obtain the appropriate licence. Please confirm to us by e-mail that you are now seeking an appropriate licence. Because of the time sensitive nature of the Fixture Lists you are required to remove them immediately from your site pending the granting of a licence.
We thank you for your cooperation.
Yours sincerely,
[Removed]
NetResult
A Division of Projector NetResult Ltd
Mulberry House,
583 Fulham Road,
London
UK
SW6 5UA
They also contacted the site's hosting company with the following:
Dear [Hosting company],
We have tried to contact http://www.bsad.org/0405/reports/fixtures.html several times regarding its use of infringing football fixtures but have had no response. The site is displaying upcoming fixtures without purchasing the appropriate license. Please remove the fixtures immediately to prevent further action being taken.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you require further information regarding this issue.
Thank you
[Removed]
NetResult
The site argued the case and got the following response as a solution to publishing the fixture list on its website:
Dear Sirs,
I am writing in connection with the notice appearing on your site for the removal of future fixtures in the current season. I am the General Manager of Football DataCo which is owned by the Football League and the FA Premier League. DataCo is charged with the commercialisation of Fixtures and also other football data.
I think your readership should have the opportunity to understand what appears to be a punitive action in asking for the future fixtures to be removed from your website.
The Football League won a case in 1959 which awarded them copyright in their fixtures. Since this time they have marketed their fixtures and in more recent times additional data to go with the fixtures. This activity is 45 years old and therefore not something which is new.
I have received 2 telephone calls today from angry supporters of Watford, the first being entirely abusive and the other expressing displeasure - in neither instance were the callers prepared to listen to the reasons for the action before hanging up. This is disappointing.
Your site has been invited to contact DataCo or its agent PA to obtain the necessary licence. The administrators of the site chose not to take this action which forced us to escalate matters to the point where you would take notice.
You can purchase a licence in two ways. The first is with the permission of the club and is called becoming a "Nominated Fanzine" the cost of this is £1.00 + VAT. This scheme was put in place to enable sites such as yours to be able to use the fixtures. The second route also requires the permission of the club and involves the payment of a £266 + VAT fee where Nominated Fanzine status is not being awarded. A simple call or e-mail would have saved us having to escalate the steps taken against your site. Believe me, we would prefer to find a way for you to use the fixtures legitimately.
The core problem is this : the Leagues have built a business in their fixtures over the last 45 years which is worth millions each year. For most of these years this has not been an issue for fans. It has only been with the advent of the internet and therefore a cost effective way of fans wanting to use the fixtures that problems have arisen. Hence the creation of the Nomiinated Fanzine scheme as being an affordable way for fanzines to access the fixtures.
In UK law there is no allowance for "not for profit web sites" - we therefore have to treat all websites the same. It would be impossible for us to charge a pure commercial site and not also charge a so called "not for profit site". Both sites are available to all via the internet and compete for the same audience.
The only alternative for the leagues would be to decide to drop all charges for fixtures and therefore cut the stream of revenue that currently comes from this source. As you can appreciate this is not a palatable option considering the state of most club finances.
I therefore urge you to consider taking a licence and restoring the fixtures to your site. Please don't hesitate to contact me to discuss this option.
I can also confirm that there is no problem with showing fixtures and their results once the match has been played.
Yours sincerely
[Removed]
Football DataCo Ltd
Uncle Leo
This cook is an anti-semite
Ewww. Imagine being in bed with Dave Jobson (shudder)
Matt the Shrimp
aka Harry Potter
Because it is copyrighted material that the league make websites like the BBC and SportingLife.com pay for. If we put it up for free, we're infringing that copyright.
No ifs or buts - if you want to see the fixtures, go to the club's website...
http://www.southendunited.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Welcome
Matt
Matt the Shrimp
aka Harry Potter
Not according to the company that has invested heavily in the software that runs all the permutations and allows the fixture lists to be compiled quickly and all released on the same day.
They're not "just fixtures", they're the product of heavy investment in expensive software, and the League wants to recoup the money they've spent in developing that software.
That's why.
Matt
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