Outdoor smoking

[GBJ]

Er, no to the bold bits in whatever pub anywhere in the country.

If Fighting/Swearing/Inappropriate behaviour were allowed to be the norm they would go out of business, its not what they are there for.

Err, no. I never said these things were allowed, or even tolerated. I said these things happen & are part and parcel of most pubs up and down the country. As long as pubs have been around, these things have, & still continue to happen.

IF its a pub with no restaurant facility thats different, but many cater for families and base their business model on it and those ones have to provide a family environment.

If any "pub" is basing a business model around selling food, I'd say it's actually a restaurant. Pubs can devise a plan for making extra income, from selling food, but their primary goal is, & will always be, to sell alcohol.

 

[Napster]

Pubs can devise a plan for making extra income, from selling food, but their primary goal is, & will always be, to sell alcohol.

Don't agree. Their profit mainly comes from food. Their main goal nowadays is to be a focal point for the community. ps I don't see any swearing or violence in pubs near me maybe I don't go to the right ones.

 

[RHB]

Not necessarily, weed can be eaten but on the whole I agree, hence why I got the smoking habit. But what I argue is that the absolute billions that is spent on criminalising one naturally growing weed while allowing another naturally growing weed in insane.

I'm probably going to regret posting this, but there is absolutely no clinical evidence that smoking tobacco leads to smoking other illegal plants. There is evidence a plenty that smoking cannabis leads to other illegal plants and substances. So it's a no from me for legalisation of cannabis.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I'm probably going to regret posting this, but there is absolutely no clinical evidence that smoking tobacco leads to smoking other illegal plants. There is evidence a plenty that smoking cannabis leads to other illegal plants and substances. So it's a no from me for legalisation of cannabis.

No, you get me wrong. I didn't smoke tobacco BEFORE I started smoking dope in my late teens, and I strongly disagree about the "gateway" drug nonsense...I did other things in my 20s (as did a lot of my friends), but at no time did we think we'd like to start injecting ourselves with heroin - because it was a weekend thing and we had responsibilities like paying a mortgage.

Monday morning was generally painful, but no more so than those whose drug of choice came in a liquid form - and many weekends mine did also.

I feel this thread will now digress......

 

[GBJ]

Don't agree. Their profit mainly comes from food. Their main goal nowadays is to be a focal point for the community. ps I don't see any swearing or violence in pubs near me maybe I don't go to the right ones.

A good pub, will earn roughly 70%-75% on every food item sold. The same pub, will earn roughly 55%-65% profit for every alcoholic drink served. Even on a good day, a pub sells a lot more drink, than it does food. Unless it's a dedicated bar/restaurant place, like a Wetherspoons for example.

This is especially true of the 3 pubs local to me. One is an old fashioned working mans pub. The second is a trendy pub, with lots of youngsters & the third is recently trying to rebuild & rebrand itself, as it's had a bad reputation for violence for the past 4-5 years.

One, maybe two at a real stretch, could be classed as family pubs. None of them are focal points for this community though.

But we digress. Banning smoking in pubs, is firstly unjust & secondly detrimental to the pub industry itself

 

[MK Shrimper]

But we digress. Banning smoking in pubs, is firstly unjust & secondly detrimental to the pub industry itself

Outside of pubs. Inside is quite rightly banned and long may it stay so.

 

[GBJ]

Outside of pubs. Inside is quite rightly banned and long may it stay so.

Yep I'll agree with that. Doesn't bother me nipping outside for a snout.

But banning smoking outside of the pub, is still unjust & will kill many pubs

 

[RHB]

Yep I'll agree with that. Doesn't bother me nipping outside for a snout.

But banning smoking outside of the pub, is still unjust & will kill many pubs

It will be interesting to see what stance the Government take on this. If tobacco revenue dwindles then tax on alcohol will have to rise, has to be. Either way pubs would be shafted.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

I'm no smoker myself but I do feel sorry for smokers as it's becoming increasingly criminalised and they seem to be targeted a lot more than say, drinkers or gamblers. It won't be long before the only place you're allowed to smoke is your own home. Brighton council is even considering banning it on the beach!

Banning it in indoor venues - fine. But I see no reason to ban it outdoors, there's no evidence that smoking outdoors damages other people. If you ban it in beer gardens we'll see even more British pubs closing down. It's just more nanny state, public health nonsense.

 

[GBJ]

It will be interesting to see what stance the Government take on this. If tobacco revenue dwindles then tax on alcohol will have to rise, has to be. Either way pubs would be shafted.

Common sense should hopefully prevail.

 

[RHB]

Common sense should hopefully prevail.

You would like to think so wouldn't you. Were else could I walk past smokers and get a wiff of a freshly lit cigarette.....After all this time still have a fatal attraction for that smell (repeat after me, I am a non-smoker).

 

[Bielzibubz]

As a reformed smoker of 4 years past I see it from the middle ground. What I will say about outdoor smoking is it's fine in general but, just don't do it whilst hanging around the buildings doors being used by others. The stench is awful even when just walking past someone puffing on a roll up.

As an aside. Perhaps do what they did at Washington DC Airport back in 2002/2003. Right in the middle of the transfer concourse they built a sodding great darkened glass double skinned cube for smokers. To get in and have a puff you had to go through one door before the next one would open and once inside you could puff away to your hearts content.....what's more it had only a piecemeal ventilation system on purpose to make the whole experience as uncomfortable as possible.....and it worked. Even after a 7 hour smokeless flight I was in there for about 15 seconds before I'd had enough.

 

[londonblue]

Smoking seen as abnormal is a fine idea....trouble is kids will mimic their parents more than random people in pubs....hence I think if you smoke at home, there's probably a good chance your kids will.

Makes me laugh when women say they smoke to maintain their weight....why is it I still see chubsters pulling on a B&H?

That maybe true, but neither my wife nor I smoke, but it didn't stop my son picking up a twig, sticking it in his mouth and asking me if that is how you smoke. He can only have got that from "random people".

 

[londonblue]

The latest reference I can find from ASH shows that direct NHS costs for smoking related diseases is £2 billion approx. If you double that to allow for other 'soft' costs to society then it is still many billions short of the £12.3 billion collected in 2013. Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with your views per se, but if smoking is made illegal then that's a pretty tall order on tax shortfall to be made up.

As I said, it depends on the report for read, and more importantly, who commissioned it.

 

[GBJ]

That maybe true, but neither my wife nor I smoke, but it didn't stop my son picking up a twig, sticking it in his mouth and asking me if that is how you smoke. He can only have got that from "random people".

Or TV, films, cartoons, magazines, music, school, friends. Smoking is everywhere, the only way to stop your lad seeing it, would be to ban it completely, worldwide. Which of course, will never happen, simply because the revenue it generates is astronomical.

And also, sticking with the topic in hand, I can't comment on yourself personally, but I'd wager that more kids pick up smoking from the above factors, than from seeing people smoking in a beer garden.

I'd even say if you made a list, for the most influential, to least influential factors that encourage young people to smoke, seeing someone Smoke in a beer garden, wouldn't rank too highly.

 

[GBJ]

As a reformed smoker of 4 years past I see it from the middle ground. What I will say about outdoor smoking is it's fine in general but, just don't do it whilst hanging around the buildings doors being used by others. The stench is awful even when just walking past someone puffing on a roll up.

As an aside. Perhaps do what they did at Washington DC Airport back in 2002/2003. Right in the middle of the transfer concourse they built a sodding great darkened glass double skinned cube for smokers. To get in and have a puff you had to go through one door before the next one would open and once inside you could puff away to your hearts content.....what's more it had only a piecemeal ventilation system on purpose to make the whole experience as uncomfortable as possible.....and it worked. Even after a 7 hour smokeless flight I was in there for about 15 seconds before I'd had enough.

Many airports have this, or something similar in place, and it's the most sensible & logical thing to do in airports. You seem to be treated more like an adult & a human being, I.e. You're being allowed a choice, whereas in this country, the thinking & decision making has already been done for you.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I'd rather they clamped down on all those people smoking at the outside tables at coffee shops! I can absolutely understand that smoking and the pub kind of go hand in hand, always has, always will...but coffee shops?

Oh, and I thought they'd decided that those e-cigs were just as addictive and pretty harmful too?

11 years as a non smoker myself and really feel quite sorry for smokers these days.

 

[GBJ]

I'd rather they clamped down on all those people smoking at the outside tables at coffee shops! I can absolutely understand that smoking and the pub kind of go hand in hand, always has, always will...but coffee shops?

Oh, and I thought they'd decided that those e-cigs were just as addictive and pretty harmful too?

11 years as a non smoker myself and really feel quite sorry for smokers these days.

Yep, this report has the feel of simply using another ignorant stick, to beat the smokers & drinkers, of this country with. For a lot of people, the escape of a boozer is their only vice in life. Remove smoking, and that effectively ends it, because no smoker would be able to go to a pub

Your coffe shop scenario, is no different from a pub beer garden. Same too with cafes, supermarkets, high street shops, bookies, restaurants, football grounds, airports, train stations and basically anywhere else you find human beings. You'll always find someone, smoking outside one of these places. So Why is it, the pubs are being targeted, but everywhere else is deemed fair enough. And as my post above says, why not also target the most prominent factors, such as TV, films etc?

Edit: sorry, the only difference with a pub & those other places I've mentioned, is that a pub IS the place you'd expect to see people smoking outside, because as you rightly said, it has always gone hand in hand

 

[RHB]

Yep, this report has the feel of simply using another ignorant stick, to beat the smokers & drinkers, of this country with. For a lot of people, the escape of a boozer is their only vice in life. Remove smoking, and that effectively ends it, because no smoker would be able to go to a pub

Your coffe shop scenario, is no different from a pub beer garden. Same too with cafes, supermarkets, high street shops, bookies, restaurants, football grounds, airports, train stations and basically anywhere else you find human beings. You'll always find someone, smoking outside one of these places. So Why is it, the pubs are being targeted, but everywhere else is deemed fair enough. And as my post above says, why not also target the most prominent factors, such as TV, films etc?

Edit: sorry, the only difference with a pub & those other places I've mentioned, is that a pub IS the place you'd expect to see people smoking outside, because as you rightly said, it has always gone hand in hand

The thing about pubs and outside smoking is where do you start/target when you campaign to stop it. Smoking is still a huge elephant and it has to be sliced bit by bit to remove it. Pubs/smoking - easy target. Once that has been sorted, coffee shops and the like next. I must be honest, smoking outside a coffee shop is something I don't like, as often the smokers get the hump if I show that I don't like their smoke, at every table sometimes apart from mine. My only other choice is to go inside or find another café. Half and half on the outside tables would be good.

 

[GBJ]

The thing about pubs and outside smoking is where do you start/target when you campaign to stop it. Smoking is still a huge elephant and it has to be sliced bit by bit to remove it. Pubs/smoking - easy target.

Err, remove what? Smoking all together?

Once that has been sorted, coffee shops and the like next. I must be honest, smoking outside a coffee shop is something I don't like, as often the smokers get the hump if I show that I don't like their smoke, at every table sometimes apart from mine. My only other choice is to go inside or find another café. Half and half on the outside tables would be good.

See, I don't wanna sound rude mate, but if it's a regular occurrence, and there's nothing you can do to stop it, why do you persist with the same place? In a fair world, I'd agree with you, half & half, designated smoking zones, fine. There's no problem. The business is still catering for those who do & do not smoke. Everyone wins.

As I've said, I class myself as a courteous smoker, who wouldn't inflict my bad habit on someone, who clearly didn't want to be around it. But there will always be a non-smoking crusader, who'll want to moan at you, whinge, chastise or preach to you. I've had it myself, where I've been in the open air, being as courteous as possible, and random strangers have had a moan. Sometimes, you can't win, Whether you're a smoker or non-smoker.