Orient Match Thoughts

[turkishm]

I should never make posts,when i have had a drink, along with being hughly disapointed.Flavs is good keeper, Clarke well im still not sure him. I am still upset about result, but must refrain from making comments about players if i dont see the game.

 

[biffo]

Southend, on the other hand, just desperately need something different up front. Not necessarily a 20-goal-a-season-Eastwood-clone, which, although wonderful to have are extremely difficult to come by in League One... but someone who isn't a lumbering target man (Harrold, Paynter), or a slow link striker (Hooper, Bradbury), which is why I'll say (yet again) that JCR should be up front. Now you've got Black and Gower to work the flanks, JCR could be pushed forward to give you some pace up top. He played extremely well there for Orient, and I think he'd give you a new dimension. Plus you wouldn't have to put up with his godawful crossing... ;)

ATB,

J_S :)

Funnily enough, I was saying the same thing to my mate the other day. I reckon JCR looks far more threatening when he drifts infield and as we saw a couple of times last year has got a pretty good shot on him. He does seem to be wasted on the flanks as it is one area where we seem to have a reasonable choice of players.

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

As ever, I shall be as fair and objective as I can....and to put it bluntly we were lucky to win.

The (poor) quality of the game as a whole was to be expected, I guess, what with it being a local derby, in hot conditions and plenty of new faces, especially in our side. Still, I was expecting more from Southend at least.

That said, I thought you dominated the first half without actually creating enough clear-cut chances. JCR tortured young Aiden Palmer in the opening half an hour, but still can't find any consistency on his crossing (more on JCR later). Kevin Maher - abysmal two-footed challenge aside - was running the show and our relatively-vaunted midfield were way, way off the pace.

The goal itself was a joy to behold from a neutral point of view; a swift counter-attack, expert cross and neat finish. Pity I wasn't a neutral or I might have appreciated it (and accompanying text - yes, you know who you are :fury: ) a bit more. Best thing about it was that it sparked the atmosphere in the ground up a for five minutes. I thought it was pretty flat for the most part pre-Thorntongate, even in the away end.

The 'foul' that lead to our equaliser I can't comment on (completely the wrong angle to judge it one way or another). But hell, how any of you can chastise Flahaven for conceding a quality freekick like that is beyond me. It was the only bit of class we showed all half to be honest, and we didn't deserve to be on level terms at the break. The only surprise is that it wasn't a goalless state of parity - the four centre backs had the strikers so far in their pockets it was untrue.

I thought we shaded - shaded, nothing more - the first 20 of the second half without ever looking threatening. There was a clear lack of understanding and fitness throughout the side. As for Southend, I thought you started playing too long. It suits us to be a bit more direct with the pace we've got to work the channels, but you don't have the luxury of that option and i was surprised you got sucked into playing that way. One thing it did do was render JCR much more ineffective, for which we breathed a sigh of relief.

Then came Thorntongate.

I've got to admit, Thornton performed far better than I thought he was going to. He controlled the tempo of the game in the second half, and his defensive workrate was above and beyond my expectations. And that free kick. Wow...! But then there was his other 'performance'.

I can't say I like players that go over too easily - I ****ing hated Tudor for that very reason - and I wasn't too impressed with Sean's role in the whole episode. He went over very, very easily and then he appeared to strike out at a Southend player whilst he was on the floor. Unsavoury stuff, and not something I condone. It took a lot of the shine off what was an excellent debut.

That said, McCormack shouldn't have lunged in the way he did; Thornton is a cracking player, and was looking to draw fouls all game. It was a stupid, stupid challenge from McCormack, especially as he was on a booking and had a **** of a referee that was simply itching to get his red card out to say "I'm back!". That said, I maintain he shouldn't have gone; a stern, final warning would have sufficed.

(On a tangent, I'd be interested to see how many fouls Kevin Maher actually committed. I thought it was double figures, and considering he put in the worst tackle of the game to get his booking, I thought he was lucky to stay on the pitch.)

Following the sending off, I was really, really disappointed with us. Strangely, it was the only time in the game where Southend really looked dangerous; I was convinced you were going to score to be honest, as our attacking play was laborious, and JCR was buzzing about again. Boyd and Gray both had absolutely crap efforts on goal, and I would have happily settled for a point at that juncture.

The game was won (and lost) on the substitutions. Tilson could well have taken McCormack off before he got sent off, and I was very surprised when he brought on Bailey for Hooper and went one up front. It left you a target man with no-one to play off of him, and it allowed us to put on the pressure that we didn't previously look like we were going to apply, as it was all too easy to get the ball back.

In contrast, when Orient go down to 10 men at home, Ling always leaves two up front to carry the goal threat, and improve ball-retention. I think if Southend had done that, the game may well have ended up differently. That said, credit to Ling, firstly for dragging Corden off at the right moment (post-booking when he was blowing out of his ****) and introduced Echanomi against that tiring, slow defence (your ovation for Wayne Gray was much appreciated, by the way).

I remember saying that Efe was quick in the preview, but **** me he absolutely roasted Gilbert for pace despite being 10 yeards behind to start with, so I'm not surprised he caused so may problems. Good run for the goal, but it must be said that the attack only came from a mistake - our creativity really was pee-poor.

So yeah, on balance of play a draw would have been the right result. Neither team created much in the way of clear cut-chances; there was a lot in the way of effort, and little in the way of quality. Plus we both had that **** Knight to cope with. Either way, I think both sides will improve as the season goes on.

Orient need to gel - we have the makings of a decent League One outfit with a few - Chambers, Mkindawire, Boyd, Thornton (booooo! ;)) - quality players. Hopefully our 'underdogs' tag will last for some while yet, and we'll keep catching more fancied sides on the hop.

Southend, on the other hand, just desperately need something different up front. Not necessarily a 20-goal-a-season-Eastwood-clone, which, although wonderful to have are extremely difficult to come by in League One... but someone who isn't a lumbering target man (Harrold, Paynter), or a slow link striker (Hooper, Bradbury), which is why I'll say (yet again) that JCR should be up front. Now you've got Black and Gower to work the flanks, JCR could be pushed forward to give you some pace up top. He played extremely well there for Orient, and I think he'd give you a new dimension. Plus you wouldn't have to put up with his godawful crossing... ;)

ATB,

J_S :)

After the contributions of the pea-brained cunch of bunts from the Noth half of the county last year I'd almost forgotten that some people can behave in a mature, constructive way in victory. Top post, have some rep.

 

[Beefy]

Almost missed this one!

A drop of positivity in an ocean of doom.

Yes thought they both did well today. Clarkes hoof balls can be annoying but other than that they did pretty well.

Barrett & Clarke did do well and kept Gray & Boyd very quiet. The test for them will come when we face teams with two big strikers. People like to talk down Adam Barrett all the time, like he's a brave player but he's not really very good, when I think that is highly insulting to a player who rarely lets us down on the pitch.

 

[Beefy]

Funnily enough, I was saying the same thing to my mate the other day. I reckon JCR looks far more threatening when he drifts infield and as we saw a couple of times last year has got a pretty good shot on him. He does seem to be wasted on the flanks as it is one area where we seem to have a reasonable choice of players.

I just wonder whether JCR is direct enough to be up front. He still has that annoying tendency to check his runs when you're screaming out for him to cut inside and beat the defender. Defenders hate quick, skillful players running at them and Jamal should be every League One defender's worst nightmare whether up front or on the wing.

 

[The Big Shrimp]

For what its worth & I'm sure I will get slagged off for it, but Macca is an idiot. He got booked 11 times in about 21 games last season, which when you only had a tiny squad like we last year, proved costly.

Macca obviously hasn't learnt from last season & went flying around like a loony. Whether or not Thornton dived, doesn't matter. Thornton was just waiting for the opportunity, which Macca gave him. Game over & point(s) lost.

If I was Tilly, I would sit him down & tell him in no uncertain term that he will fine him heavily for every stupid booking. I would also drop him & give Bailey a chance. We cannot afford his stupidity this season. The same applies to Maher too, but least he knew what Thornton was doing. Maybe as skipper he should have had a word or several to Macca?

That my gripe out of the way. Positives? For most of the first half, I thought we bossed it, Gower & JCR looked good, especially JCR who has learnt that he can cut inside & cause problems.

Yes we are lacking upfront, but Hooper I think will benefit by playing alongside a decent striker. Get a goalscorer with the Eastwood money & we will go up. With Charlie Mac, Hoops, Paynter & prolific goalscorer, I think we'll be there or there abouts at the end of the season.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I just wonder whether JCR is direct enough to be up front. He still has that annoying tendency to check his runs when you're screaming out for him to cut inside and beat the defender. Defenders hate quick, skillful players running at them and Jamal should be every League One defender's worst nightmare whether up front or on the wing.

JCR rarely beats a defender. He is full of pace and tricks, but how many times does he get actually beat his defender and get goalside of him? The contrast between the Orient sub and JCR is stark.

 

[Cliff Pavilion]

JCR rarely beats a defender. He is full of pace and tricks, but how many times does he get actually beat his defender and get goalside of him? The contrast between the Orient sub and JCR is stark.

He also has a terrible shot on him. Which would make two strikers with terrible shots on them if he was to partner Harrold.

 

[KillKenny]

Naughty, naughty! xxx

 

[The Big Shrimp]

Sorry I am being an Ar$e

No you're not. You're being a C**T! :finger:

 

[KillKenny]

Homophobic?

No you're not. You're being a C**T! :finger:

There is no room for homophobia on this site!

 

[Jonny_Stokes]

JCR rarely beats a defender. He is full of pace and tricks, but how many times does he get actually beat his defender and get goalside of him? The contrast between the Orient sub and JCR is stark.

I thought he went round Palmer with consummate ease a couple of times. The only player that caused us problems - I'd love to have him in our squad.

 

[* ORM *]

People like to talk down Adam Barrett all the time, like he's a brave player but he's not really very good, when I think that is highly insulting to a player who rarely lets us down on the pitch.

Is this the same Adam Barrett that continually let us down last season ? :flamer: I'm sorry, dying for the cause with some fantastic last ditch challenges and throwing yourself in front of piledrivers doesn't make you a good defender.

That said he had a decent performance on Saturday but there was one incident in the second half where 99% of defenders would have put the ball into row Z. What did AB do ? A bit of trickery to fool the forward. OK if it comes off but a complete disaster if he loses the ball (and there are enough examples of him doing this). AB isn't the only one guilty of being too clever in our own half. Gower and JCR regularly do it and MG has cost us enough goals in the past giving the ball away cheaply when trying to be flash.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I thought he went round Palmer with consummate ease a couple of times. The only player that caused us problems - I'd love to have him in our squad.

He skips away from tackles rather than past players. With his pace and trickery he should be producing the type of run in behind a defence that your sub did.

 

[Beefy]

Is this the same Adam Barrett that continually let us down last season ? :flamer: I'm sorry, dying for the cause with some fantastic last ditch challenges and throwing yourself in front of piledrivers doesn't make you a good defender.

I know it doesn't but I don't accept that he makes anything like as many mistakes as you say he does. In fact in comparison to the number of times other defensive-minded players in our squad (Flavs, Wilson, Francis, Hunt, Hammell, Clarke, Maher) make stupid errors I'd argue that Barrett is one of the most sound players we have.