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Orient Match Thoughts

Was chatting to the bloke who sits next to me before the match, and the subject of who'd be the first to be suspended came up, (out of many subjects), and he thought it'd be McCormack

I think we were all surprised that he didnt even last until the end of the first match though


Why ?

He was flying in like he always does and with a player like Thornton who is going to hold onto the ball and twist and turn it was odds on there were going to be bookings.

I see you neg-repped me for needing glasses, do you not think they were bookings then ? Looked pretty clear to me but do sit in East stand..
 
Yeah, you're probably right about JCR thinking about it, I think I was just thinking him needlessly losing the ball in midfield for them to score - it is the first time I have criticised him actually, what was I thinking!! :)

I just cant see anything special in Hooper, I am not saying he isnt any good, just cant see anything amazing about him - football is all about opinions I guess, and I am well aware a lot of people like him, but I havent jumped on the bandwaggon yet - but I am happy to be persuaded otheriwise!

IMO I think Paynter is a better player than Harrold, he has a proven track record at this level, and he is much stronger when it comes to holding off challenges, and I would go with him above Harrold. You cant knock his effort, I have no problem with that, and it is clear he wants to be successful for us, but sometimes, that isnt enough on its own - you need ability and cutting edge, and sadly, IMO, Matty is lacking in both.

Im not sure about Hooper either, looks like he could be good but until he actually does something Im reserving judgement.

Paynter's proven track record is only a 1:4 goal ratio, its not bad for someone his age, and better than Harrold but I personally dont see anything in him thats better than Harrold.

Lack of pace control and confidence are all attributes Billy posesses. Not saying Harrold has them either of course...
 
Why did Tilly leave the last 2 subs so late? It was stinking hot and 10 v 11. If we'd have had fresh legs on earlier we may not have given the winning goal away.

Thought Gilbert looked a bit nervous at times - I was expecting better (although he wasn't bad as such). Che played OK and Harold played as well as I've seen him, generally holding the ball up well and winning quite a few headers.

Not too despondent yet. Interesting to see what changes Tilly makes for Tuesday. I would imagine that Bradbury, Hunt and Paynter are well up for a game after not even making the 16 today which shows how much stronger the squad is this year.

When will Macca's suspension take effect? I expected him and Maher to pick up a fair few yellows this season but 3 between them in the 1st match exceeded my expectations!
 
Im not sure about Hooper either, looks like he could be good but until he actually does something Im reserving judgement.

Paynter's proven track record is only a 1:4 goal ratio, its not bad for someone his age, and better than Harrold but I personally dont see anything in him thats better than Harrold.

Lack of pace control and confidence are all attributes Billy posesses. Not saying Harrold has them either of course...

Paynter is lacking confidence - but there is only one way to restore it, and that is by playing and scoring goals. I dont think Harrold is lacking confidence right now, he was banging them in for fun at the start of pre season, I just dont think he has what it takes.

1 goal in 4 is OK, nothing to get too excited about, but given that he and MacDonald have the best scoring ratios at the club, surely they should start alongside each other - the classic big man small man partnership?
 
Paynter is lacking confidence - but there is only one way to restore it, and that is by playing and scoring goals. I dont think Harrold is lacking confidence right now, he was banging them in for fun at the start of pre season, I just dont think he has what it takes.

1 goal in 4 is OK, nothing to get too excited about, but given that he and MacDonald have the best scoring ratios at the club, surely they should start alongside each other - the classic big man small man partnership?

Thats something I reckon we will only find out over the course of the season.

Personally with Macdonald only being a pro for a short time and with the performances of Harrold and Hooper in pre-season I think they were the right pairing for today.

Im still dont share your views on Paynter but am happy for him to prove me wrong.
 
I agree totally with (richard cadette post) they actually brought us down to ther level and we missed a good oppertunity for three points. Thought apart from the cheating B@Stard in midfield they were extremly poor, and we was poorer. Adam B and P Clarke looked very solid as did gilbert and you could see that che hasnt played for a while as the first 15 mins him and barrett were picking up the same guy. or not as the case may be! The Midfield looked ok, apart from Mccormack getting sent off, but for me we looked woeful upfront something D.T.S touched on after the crawley game. Matt harold is not going to score goals against sides in this league ......full stop. He did alot of running today but continued to come deep and chest the ball down to an opposing player, his first touch is laughable(sorry just being honest) The two times in the second half when J.C.R crossed the ball into the box harrold anticipation was a mile behind, I mean, he should have been busting a gut to get near post and infront of his marker who seemed to get the better of him throughout the whole game, but he looked as though he couldnt be bothered.
All in all a bad day! I do think however that tilly instead of taking gower off should have brought charlie mac on sooner(for harold) definatly a game to forget.
 
Thats something I reckon we will only find out over the course of the season.

Personally with Macdonald only being a pro for a short time and with the performances of Harrold and Hooper in pre-season I think they were the right pairing for today.

Im still dont share your views on Paynter but am happy for him to prove me wrong.

One day you and I will agree 100% on a game matey, one day :)
 
My thoughts about today.

Sean Thornton was the best player on the park by some distance - I said when Orient signed him in the pre season that was an excellent bit of business, and I was dissapointed we didnt sign someone of that calibre. He tore us to shreds when Donny were here last and did so again today, everything positive for Orient went through him. I dont think he dived much at all really, everytime he went down, it was because someone in our side had fouled him, simple as that. He out thought McCormack as well, he knew by winding him up, he was liable to do something like that, and he fell for it - You have to admire the intelligence if nothing else!

McCormack was completely ill disciplined and cost us any chance of winning that match, and I hope Tilly stamps down quickly on this kind of behaviour. We saw it last week at Crawley with Foran, now his sparring partner getting his marching orders 7 days later is not good enough. He completely blotted his copy book as up to then he was doing fine - his run to set up our goal was superb, and showed the difference between the Championship and League One - that run would have been checked in the Championship, in League One, Orient didnt even spot him!!

I dont agree that we were head and shoulders above Orient today - they looked extremely average to me, and we did as we often do, and sank to there level at times. There were times when we showed some class, our goal for example, but we did that on too few occasions and allowed them to have too much possession in and around our penalty box, and that cost us with the first goal.

I am a huge fan of JCR as many of you know, but I thought he was poor today - he was at fault for there winner, losing possession in the middle of the park when he didnt need to, and tried holding onto the ball too long - I kind of got the impression he thought it was going to be easier than it actually was.

Also, I am going to buck my trend of criticising Tilly over his substitutions today - yes, they were late, but up until Orient scored there winner, I didnt see much point in changing it - they werent really hurting us, and putting Charlie Mac up front on his own would have been a terrible idea. If nothing else, Harrold is relatively tall and you would need someone who could get on the end of crosses if we were to break, so I dont blame him for that too much.

Defensively, overall, i didnt think they actually caused us that many problems, we looked fairly solid, it took a wonder goal to get on terms and a mistake by us in midfield for them to score there winner, so for the moment at least, I would say they are going to be ok.... As long as Gilbert remembers he has to defend as well as attack ;)

The biggest worry for me today would be the strike force. There were a few times that we opened Orient up, or put a ball in behind there back four, and we had absolutely no pace up front to exploit that area, which made us very dimensional in the end. Harrold couldnt be knocked for his effort, but just doesnt look like scoring, and as much as it is starting to sound like a broken record now, i dont think its just coincidence that almost everyone is saying the same thing.

Having said that, he shouldn't take the full burden of why we looked ineffective going forward - I thought Hooper didnt have one of his better days at the office today, and I am still struggling to see what all the fuss is about regarding him, I really am.

I notice Paynter wasnt even on the bench and I would be amazed if he was still with us by the end of the transfer window - he wont accept sitting in the reserves in League One, and it is becoming clearer that Tilly just doesnt rate him - so why not cut your losses and get rid. Personally, I would love to see him being given the chance of first team football with us, I believe he is good enough at this level and will score goals, but if you're not going to play him, then get rid, and sign someone you are going to play.

It is only one game, and we cant get too downbeat about it - we always lose to Orient, and as annoying as it is, we have to just get on with it, but it is clear to everyone who was there, and everyone who has been watching in pre season that we are toothless up front and we have to address that before too long.

you really like this sean thornton cheat. maybe you should support orient
 
you really like this sean thornton cheat. maybe you should support orient

Whilst he may go to ground quickly that doesnt hide the fact he was fouled.

Thornton is a great player he has great control and twists and turns so much our midfielders couldnt help but foul him.

Do you think Maher didnt foul him for example because he certainly caught him.
 
you really like this sean thornton cheat. maybe you should support orient

He is an exception player, yes, I am not blinded by the fact that he plays for Orient to see that. You may not like him, or you may not like his antics, but he won them the game, and that is all she told really.

I fail to see why that should mean I should go and support Orient though?
 
you really like this sean thornton cheat. maybe you should support orient

That's a ridiculous response, whether you like it or not Sean Thornton was the best player on view today. Why don't you put a sensible argument to RC rather than resorting to that sort of comment?

He didn't dive for their first goal Maher took his ankle, my seat is more or less in line with the incident.

I don't condone cheating in any way shape or form, but Thornton was way to "clever" for McCormack.
 
maybe a few people on here should read the thread before posting. did i not say he is a very good player??????????

the fact remains i have no time for cheats like him.
 
on a brighter note I thought Barrett and Clarke looked commanding at the back.


Almost missed this one!

A drop of positivity in an ocean of doom.

Yes thought they both did well today. Clarkes hoof balls can be annoying but other than that they did pretty well.
 
maybe a few people on here should read the thread before posting. did i not say he is a very good player??????????

the fact remains i have no time for cheats like him.

Fine, but that is no excuse to say to someone go and support Orient is it? RC made a good, truthful & objective post.

BTW I assume you would tolerate a "cheat" in a Southend shirt who could fall over in the box, win us a penalty & important game?
 
maybe a few people on here should read the thread before posting. did i not say he is a very good player??????????

the fact remains i have no time for cheats like him.

When he went down after mahers challenge do you see that as cheating ?

He was clearly fouled....
 
Fine, but that is no excuse to say to someone go and support Orient is it? RC made a good, truthful & objective post.

BTW I assume you would tolerate a "cheat" in a Southend shirt who could fall over in the box, win us a penalty & important game?

not at all. i would much rather win with a clean goal. diving is an aspect of football that really gets up my back. i don't like to see any player do it. southend or anyone. theres no need for it and it ruins the game.
especially as refs fall for it every time
 

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